simonsez wrote: Phantron wrote: My bad for assuming you were able to make an argument where the size of the strike tiles determines whether someone is support or not. Any comment I'm making is specific to IMHB's abilities. What I'm saying is, if they give him a nuke, and no one uses it, that makes him feel like a support character.
Phantron wrote: My bad for assuming you were able to make an argument where the size of the strike tiles determines whether someone is support or not.
Dauthi wrote: simonsez wrote: Phantron wrote: My bad for assuming you were able to make an argument where the size of the strike tiles determines whether someone is support or not. Any comment I'm making is specific to IMHB's abilities. What I'm saying is, if they give him a nuke, and no one uses it, that makes him feel like a support character. Does everyone think his red is bad? 630 damage per ap is great, who else has that kind of damage towards a single target? You can customize the damage too, for instance 12 ap will take down most 3*s (8k damage). His strike tiles just allow him to continue to provide some damage in between red blasts.
raisinbman wrote: Dauthi wrote: simonsez wrote: Phantron wrote: My bad for assuming you were able to make an argument where the size of the strike tiles determines whether someone is support or not. Any comment I'm making is specific to IMHB's abilities. What I'm saying is, if they give him a nuke, and no one uses it, that makes him feel like a support character. Does everyone think his red is bad? 630 damage per ap is great, who else has that kind of damage towards a single target? You can customize the damage too, for instance 12 ap will take down most 3*s (8k damage). His strike tiles just allow him to continue to provide some damage in between red blasts. If his red was good he'd be 4* ares, I'm just glad they didn't make another xforce
gamar wrote: His red is absolutely fantastic. I cannot fathom a single reason anyone would build him anything but 553, or why anyone would "waste" a character by pairing him with Steve/Torch/Cyclops when their reds are only a marginal improvement over his own
Phantron wrote: The value of a skill is supposed change depending on how much match it took to use it but Repulsor Punch does not. That's its drawback. If you use 9 AP it's 630 damage/AP. It you use 30 AP it's still 630 damage/AP, even though a 30 red AP, if one exists, should pretty much kill everyone on the other team. If you have say, 15 red AP, it'll do ~10K damage, but TBTI is 14 red AP and will usually do more damage depending on the team setup and give you minor strike tiles. If you have 11 red AP it does ~7000 damage, but 11 black AP pretty much always does 7000 damage with Surgical Strike and it creates a significant cascade and that's probably the easiest skill to compare to. Now at 9 red AP there are very few skills that are as good. This is because the difference between 9 (3 match) and 10 (4 matches) is huge, so it is an incredibly powerful 9 red AP skill but it's fairly average if not underpowered for 10-12 AP range and it's very weak in the 13+ range. So whether it's good depends on how often you can use it at under 5 matches and ideally, exactly 3 matches. At 5 matches you've to compare it to stuff like Full Blast or Righteous Uppercut and it doesn't really compare well to those abilities at all and that's just 3* level. If there's a 4* version of those abilities it'll probably compare even worse.
Arondite wrote: Phantron wrote: The value of a skill is supposed change depending on how much match it took to use it but Repulsor Punch does not. That's its drawback. If you use 9 AP it's 630 damage/AP. It you use 30 AP it's still 630 damage/AP, even though a 30 red AP, if one exists, should pretty much kill everyone on the other team. If you have say, 15 red AP, it'll do ~10K damage, but TBTI is 14 red AP and will usually do more damage depending on the team setup and give you minor strike tiles. If you have 11 red AP it does ~7000 damage, but 11 black AP pretty much always does 7000 damage with Surgical Strike and it creates a significant cascade and that's probably the easiest skill to compare to. Now at 9 red AP there are very few skills that are as good. This is because the difference between 9 (3 match) and 10 (4 matches) is huge, so it is an incredibly powerful 9 red AP skill but it's fairly average if not underpowered for 10-12 AP range and it's very weak in the 13+ range. So whether it's good depends on how often you can use it at under 5 matches and ideally, exactly 3 matches. At 5 matches you've to compare it to stuff like Full Blast or Righteous Uppercut and it doesn't really compare well to those abilities at all and that's just 3* level. If there's a 4* version of those abilities it'll probably compare even worse. IMO, they should've copy-pasted Ares' Green with Iron Man's numbers. If this were 690/AP, Min=6 Red this would be a top tier skill.
ArkPrime wrote: This is the 4* version of those skills. Look at xforce's green. The days of 4* powers being significantly superior to 3*s are over.
Mawtful wrote: Phantron wrote: The value of a skill is supposed change depending on how much match it took to use it but Repulsor Punch does not. That's its drawback. If you use 9 AP it's 630 damage/AP. It you use 30 AP it's still 630 damage/AP, even though a 30 red AP, if one exists, should pretty much kill everyone on the other team. If you have say, 15 red AP, it'll do ~10K damage, but TBTI is 14 red AP and will usually do more damage depending on the team setup and give you minor strike tiles. If you have 11 red AP it does ~7000 damage, but 11 black AP pretty much always does 7000 damage with Surgical Strike and it creates a significant cascade and that's probably the easiest skill to compare to. Now at 9 red AP there are very few skills that are as good. This is because the difference between 9 (3 match) and 10 (4 matches) is huge, so it is an incredibly powerful 9 red AP skill but it's fairly average if not underpowered for 10-12 AP range and it's very weak in the 13+ range. So whether it's good depends on how often you can use it at under 5 matches and ideally, exactly 3 matches. At 5 matches you've to compare it to stuff like Full Blast or Righteous Uppercut and it doesn't really compare well to those abilities at all and that's just 3* level. If there's a 4* version of those abilities it'll probably compare even worse. Full Blast (Visor Off) deals 8171 damage and Cyke is stunned. It has a damage:ap ratio of ~628. Righteous Uppercut (2 allies standing) deals 7141. It has an ap ratio of ~549. A 13 AP Repulsor Punch will deal 8190 damage; with no self stun, and regardless of how many allies are still standing. Obviously, it has an ap ratio of 630. I'd say that compares pretty well, really. Except, of course, for being on a 4* instead of a 3* character. However, perhaps that should be the sort of comparison we need to be making at the moment. Surgical Strike has better damage output and ap ratio, and has good cascade potential. Smite with 5 charged tiles out (from Power Surge) deals only 7650 and realistically cost you 19 AP, so its ratio is stupidly poor. I see Repulsor Punch as (hopefully) being the new "baseline" ability. It's straight up pay X, get Y with an obvious damage:ap ratio and no funny business or strings attached. It only has one lever to modify if it's too strong or too weak, and so I would expect that it should become the measuring stick for other damaging abilities.
Dauthi wrote: Does everyone think his red is bad?
gamar wrote: I cannot fathom a single reason anyone would build him anything but 553, or why anyone would "waste" a character by pairing him with Steve/Torch/Cyclops when their reds are only a marginal improvement over his own
simonsez wrote: Dauthi wrote: Does everyone think his red is bad? No, my comments started as a response to notamutant's gameplay video, in which he's using IMHB to generate red for LCap. I wouldn't have gone this way myself, but after seeing it in action, it does seem better than using IMHB's red. Doesn't make it "bad" though.
simonsez wrote: gamar wrote: I cannot fathom a single reason anyone would build him anything but 553, or why anyone would "waste" a character by pairing him with Steve/Torch/Cyclops when their reds are only a marginal improvement over his own Citing 3*s with a "marginally better" ability than a 4*'s nuke, isn't really a ringing endorsement for the 4*
daibar wrote: simonsez wrote: Dauthi wrote: Does everyone think his red is bad? No, my comments started as a response to notamutant's gameplay video, in which he's using IMHB to generate red for LCap. I wouldn't have gone this way myself, but after seeing it in action, it does seem better than using IMHB's red. Doesn't make it "bad" though. You're still going to use Hulkbuster's red for the last guy. LCap's red is just good in term of sustained damage every 3 turns beyond an attack tile. Actually Elektra's red could be as good as it goes off every turn. Comparison with Hulkbuster's strikes: 8 AP - 3 turns of Ballet of Death 1247 + 708 = 1955 dmg a turn 1955 X 3 = 5865 dmg every 3 turns Cap 11-AP Shield 4031 + 708 = 4739 dmg every 3 turns Elektra's is one match less, so you can get it out sooner, and it doesn't need 1AP maintenance. However, you lose the single tile override and the return red AP, and the placement is not always the best. Further, multiple ballets of death proc together, whereas Steve's shield procs for every hit. Add to that the loss of yellow damage (assuming you're using IF), and Steve wins out most of the time, an exception being a match against another Hulkbuster. This also assume you build a 5 red Elektra, which isn't as common either.
Bigtaf wrote: I think blasting is a little incorrect. Crashing in may be more accurate