**** Iron Man (Hulkbuster) ****

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  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Malcrof wrote:
    Bigtaf wrote:
    I think blasting is a little incorrect. Crashing in may be more accurate icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Did you see his red ability?

    I think the joke was lost on you
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bigtaf wrote:
    Malcrof wrote:
    Bigtaf wrote:
    I think blasting is a little incorrect. Crashing in may be more accurate icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Did you see his red ability?

    I think the joke was lost on you

    I just got it... late in the day sorry... lol
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    daibar wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    Dauthi wrote:
    Does everyone think his red is bad?
    No, my comments started as a response to notamutant's gameplay video, in which he's using IMHB to generate red for LCap. I wouldn't have gone this way myself, but after seeing it in action, it does seem better than using IMHB's red. Doesn't make it "bad" though.

    You're still going to use Hulkbuster's red for the last guy. LCap's red is just good in term of sustained damage every 3 turns beyond an attack tile. Actually Elektra's red could be as good as it goes off every turn.

    Comparison with Hulkbuster's strikes:
    8 AP - 3 turns of Ballet of Death
    1247 + 708 = 1955 dmg a turn
    1955 X 3 = 5865 dmg every 3 turns

    Cap 11-AP Shield
    4031 + 708 = 4739 dmg every 3 turns

    Elektra's is one match less, so you can get it out sooner, and it doesn't need 1AP maintenance. However, you lose the single tile override and the return red AP, and the placement is not always the best. Further, multiple ballets of death proc together, whereas Steve's shield procs for every hit. Add to that the loss of yellow damage (assuming you're using IF), and Steve wins out most of the time, an exception being a match against another Hulkbuster. This also assume you build a 5 red Elektra, which isn't as common either.

    These comparisons are awful. By that metric Blade's purple does more damage than any 3* skill. Certainly more than cap and elektra red.

    Want to compare powers, at least have them do something similar. Stuff like lthor green vs KK green actually makes some sense because both use green ap to do aoe damage.

    There is no comparison to be made between something like Elektra red and HB red.

    You want to compare HB red to something it has to be a single target instant nuke.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2015
    ArkPrime wrote:

    There is no comparison to be made between something like Elektra red and HB red.

    You want to compare HB red to something it has to be a single target instant nuke.

    Exactly, and the logic behind this is that you don't know if that DOT (damage over time) will break on the first turn or stay forever. A nuke is guaranteed damage. If someone has X life left you can't drop a dot and instantly down them, or assume it will down them over time.
    Phantron wrote:
    Repulsor Punch's all or nothing property is not strictly beneficial. You're going to run into a scenario where you have 12-15 red AP and a guy that's wounded but still has 5K HP that makes it awfully hard to decide who to target first.

    An occasion where you overshoot using red just isn't going to happen often unless you aren't paying attention. The first time you use it, you should hit them for exactly the amount needed. The second time you use it, if you can overshoot the next person using 9 ap then it sounds like the game is already over.

    Lets all not forget both of his skills generate red to funnel directly into the best pay X do X damage abilities in the game.
    gamar wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    gamar wrote:
    I cannot fathom a single reason anyone would build him anything but 553, or why anyone would "waste" a character by pairing him with Steve/Torch/Cyclops when their reds are only a marginal improvement over his own
    Citing 3*s with a "marginally better" ability than a 4*'s nuke, isn't really a ringing endorsement for the 4*
    That wasn't an endorsement for Hulkbuster, merely saying that doubling up on great single-target-damage reds is a waste when you would do better to pair Hulkbuster with someone who can add a lot more to the team

    But since you brought it up, HT Torch have very pushed Reds, their reds are the premiere top single-target damage abilities in 3* land and the reason you use those characters at all

    Those abilities being only slightly better than the 4*s SECONDARY ability (Overdrive being overwhelmingly his best ability) is definitely a ringing endorsement

    I agree, you could be getting a better color spectrum or synergy with other characters. Getting a marginal boost from Steve (torch/Cyclops have worse damage/ap ratios than HB) means waiting around 6-9 turns to down a character after obtaining his red AP cost, whie HB can down a character right now and there. So what kind of havoc can that character wreak in 6 - 9 turns? There is also the problem of Steve's red tile getting smash, in which you lose a huge chunk of his damage/ap ratio.

    Finally, I doubt anyone wants to take Steve along for his blue or yellow, so if you are only getting a marginal boost from his red over time, is it worth losing 2 skill slots? What other colors/abilities could you be picking up if you just throw your cards in with HB's red?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Lerysh wrote:
    I'd say the trap is too vulnerable to Buster's blueflag.png to be a really good outlet. Plus you will never use her black which is her best ability. And at a consistent 630 damage per AP Buster's red is good enough on it's own. Even LCap needs his shield to rebound twice before he gets above this number.

    Best Partner to Buster might be L.Thor. Solid yellowflag.png / greenflag.png with built in synergy plus you can add green tiles to convert to red if needed. KK would aslo work, with purpleflag.png / greenflag.png synergy and match damage on yellow, but then you need someone with a yellow ability and those are rare.
    I don't know why you'd cast Blue if it would destroy your tile, it certainly isn't worth it just for the protect tiles. Also, since you know it's green that will be converted, you have a pretty good idea if any given cast will destroy your tile. I'd still use Elektra's black against HB instead of HB's Black if they just threw out an Overdrive. It'd give enough time to collect the rest of the purple needed to steal the tiles and block against Repulsor Punch. If you're talking about an enemy's blue, it definitely makes the use of Ballet more situational.

    I agreed earlier in thread with LThor being a good pairing, though still don't rate him as highly as IF here. The green removal takes away from getting out CoTS, and it's a rare board that has less than 5 green for conversion so it's not like you really need to generate more.
    ArkPrime wrote:
    These comparisons are awful. By that metric Blade's purple does more damage than any 3* skill. Certainly more than cap and elektra red.

    Want to compare powers, at least have them do something similar. Stuff like lthor green vs KK green actually makes some sense because both use green ap to do aoe damage.

    There is no comparison to be made between something like Elektra red and HB red.

    You want to compare HB red to something it has to be a single target instant nuke.
    icon_question.gif Who's comparing Hulkbuster red to Elektra red? We're comparing the use of Overdrive with Ballet of Death compared to Overdrive with Steve's shield, abilities that do damage over time, eg targeting more than one enemy. For example, Human Torch's red makes absolutely no sense to compare in this scenario because it's single use and strictly weaker than HB red. You can Repulsor Blast a few turns after a Star-Spangled Avenger.

    I'm not sure where the gap in understanding is, please pardon the repetition in an attempt to find said gap.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    In a world where we've been told 4*s are 160% more powerful than 3*s, I still don't understand why we have 3*s with marginally better power than our brand new shiny nuke...
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    simonsez wrote:
    In a world where we've been told 4*s are 160% more powerful than 3*s, I still don't understand why we have 3*s with marginally better power than our brand new shiny nuke...

    They said that, and then the XF nerf happened, and now I don't think they believe that anymore. They are basically shiny 3*s as far as I'm concerned.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Lerysh wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    In a world where we've been told 4*s are 160% more powerful than 3*s, I still don't understand why we have 3*s with marginally better power than our brand new shiny nuke...

    They said that, and then the XF nerf happened, and now I don't think they believe that anymore. They are basically shiny 3*s as far as I'm concerned.
    Their lack of ability to balance makes 4* being strictly better than 3* a pipe dream. You don't transition to 4* anymore. You just get them.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Lost somewhere in all this analysis is the fact that he has 18k hit points. That has to be weighed somehow in how his powers compare to other characters. If you're going to look to a power like Righteous Uppercut as a measuring stick for Repulsor Punch, you also have to consider that Hulkbuster shrugs off two Uppercuts and keeps on coming, while for the same amount of AP Punch kills Cage with enough damage left over to ruin someone else's day as well. Cage also doesn't have two other powers that accelerate his big hit.

    Nothing exists in a vacuum, and trying to see if powers are balanced outside of the context of the characters they're attached to doesn't always make a lot of sense. It's one of the many reasons why TUs are stupid.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Now that the Ultron event has settled and I suppose there are people that have him maxed, how is he? How do you rank him? Is it better than ProfX or Kingpin? Better than Cyclops and IF? Is this the new XForce ? (In the sense that If you have him maxed, you play with him always). Maybe the new 4hor suits him more...

    And in a world where nerfs wouldn t exist, would you spend HP into maxing his red and black? Do you think he is nerf-safe?


    PS: I don't understand how is it possible that blue creates just 3x72 shield tiles. All the other powers are very good, but this one is reaaaaally meh. They need to upgrade shield power if they want to make shields relevant. This one should create 3x250, and caps yellow something like 3x1000.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Polares wrote:
    Now that the Ultron event has settled and I suppose there are people that have him maxed, how is he? How do you rank him? Is it better than ProfX or Kingpin? Better than Cyclops and IF? Is this the new XForce ? (In the sense that If you have him maxed, you play with him always). Maybe the new 4hor suits him more...

    And in a world where nerfs wouldn t exist, would you spend HP into maxing his red and black? Do you think he is nerf-safe?


    PS: I don't understand how is it possible that blue creates just 3x72 shield tiles. All the other powers are very good, but this one is reaaaaally meh. They need to upgrade shield power if they want to make shields relevant. This one should create 3x250, and caps yellow something like 3x1000.
    no one is nerf safe if they have ap abilities.

    D3 has declared the war on AP unofficially
  • Alkyoneus
    Alkyoneus Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    So is there a good consensus on who pairs well with Hulkbuster? I realld would like to make him the centerpiece of my PVP team but I'm not sure who I should try to put him with. So far I have designs on the following:

    Cyclops: yellow generates red. No brainer here.
    Iron Fist: purple into black, charges HB black into red for strike tiles and punchy goodness. Seems legit but makes IF basically another support character.
    Scarlet Witch: lots of cascade capability to possibly generate blue and red for HB to use.
    Kamala Khan: Heals to cover for HB self-damaging black and general rainbow color coverage. More that she doesn't get in the way than synergizes.
    Loki: Typical defensive helper that might generate you some red/black from enemy match-4/5.

    Other than that, I really can't field Professor X who is the top guy right now. Anyone have anything positive or negative to contribute to this? Thanks!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Alkyoneus wrote:
    So is there a good consensus on who pairs well with Hulkbuster? I realld would like to make him the centerpiece of my PVP team but I'm not sure who I should try to put him with. So far I have designs on the following:

    Cyclops: yellow generates red. No brainer here.
    Iron Fist: purple into black, charges HB black into red for strike tiles and punchy goodness. Seems legit but makes IF basically another support character.
    Scarlet Witch: lots of cascade capability to possibly generate blue and red for HB to use.
    Kamala Khan: Heals to cover for HB self-damaging black and general rainbow color coverage. More that she doesn't get in the way than synergizes.
    Loki: Typical defensive helper that might generate you some red/black from enemy match-4/5.

    Other than that, I really can't field Professor X who is the top guy right now. Anyone have anything positive or negative to contribute to this? Thanks!

    About Negatve i would say you should rule out Cyclops, you have both black/red combo there, so sitting Cyke only for yellow seems a waste, SW takes your blue and makes adjacent purple not so positive either

    Positive: KK works with anyone particulary his cheap blue skill, IF is no brainer with black generation thats good too

    I would add a curious one, LThor generates green, Hulkbuster makes green to red, not a bad way around
    Aside IF i dont think there's other that really helps him (maybe Doom), i would look for someone that doesn't step on his colours, or only on blue like Fury

    I got a 321 HB that will become 442 if i nail top 5 in pve, so i guess i will find out in time but my main goal is maxing IF now
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited May 2015
    Agent Alex wrote:
    I would add a curious one, LThor generates green, Hulkbuster makes green to red, not a bad way around
    icon_eek.gif Why? That would be the worst way to use the combo, unless you're talking about matching all the green afterwards and converting the hard to reach ones.

    Black is better than Red (especially since black generates red). The reasons for taking Cyclops are:
    1. Red generation with yellow.
    2. Optic Blast if you have too much red and don't want to waste it on one target (rarer problem).
    3. Black finisher if that's all you need. (also rare)

    Cyclops is inferior to IF for a support, and IF is going to be a support anyways at his health; why count that against him? I don't know of many people who pump IF's green to spam over and over, particularly when you've got Kamala and LThor out there. Heck with 18k health, how many people aren't going to be support to Hulkbuster?

    Not seeing Scarlet Witch synergy.

    I've been trying Blade myself, but without many covers, I'm not entirely sure if it's that great. Even MNMags seems a better support.
  • mjh
    mjh Posts: 708 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2015
    This guy is a bit OP. I predict he will be like old 4Thor and take over this game. He will get the nerf bat like all before him have gotten. That is my prediction.

    But to talk about his abilities, one thing I realized is if he ever gets his blackflag.png off it's automatically followed up by redflag.png which will hit for a minimum of 5670 + 354 strike.png + 354 strike.png = 6378
  • Etheus
    Etheus Posts: 56
    daibar wrote:
    Cyclops is inferior to IF for a support, and IF is going to be a support anyways at his health; why count that against him? I don't know of many people who pump IF's green to spam over and over, particularly when you've got Kamala and LThor out there. Heck with 18k health, how many people aren't going to be support to Hulkbuster?

    Not seeing Scarlet Witch synergy.

    I've been trying Blade myself, but without many covers, I'm not entirely sure if it's that great. Even MNMags seems a better support.

    The synergy for Switch comes with fielding IF alongside IMHB. I saw Puerto Rico fielding this max level team. I would stay clear of it.

    1. The key is Switch 5 Blue going off and producing 5 purple ap.
    2. IF 5 Purple fires for 9 black tiles.
    3. If you cascade into 11 Black ap, then IMHB goes Overdrive creating 9 red ap and 2x 354 strike tiles.
    4. For 9+ red ap IMHB launches a Repulsor Punch for at least 6478 damage.

    This is all for FREE. You deliver 6478 + cascade damage. Then you get to take your turn.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Switch. S.Witch. Clever.

    Arcane Incantations RARELY produces 5 purple. The fact that the tile implodes and causes the tiles above it to fall means you really only get 3 or less purple almost all of the time.

    blacktile.pngbluetile.pnggreentile.png
    blacktile.pngcountdown.pngyellowtile.png
    bluetile.pnggreentile.pngpurpletile.png

    Becomes

    purpletile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.png
    blacktile.pngstar.pngpurpletile.png
    bluetile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.png

    With the star being a hole in the board, becomes

    purpletile.pngicon_question.gifpurpletile.png
    blacktile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.png
    bluetile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.png

    And you get 3, unless icon_question.gif was purple also. So you are talking 6 turns at LEAST to get free purple into black for a single IF purpleflag.png , and that single cast is not going to result in 11 AP, it results in <6 on average, so you are talking 6 more turns to get the black for Overdrive.

    Granted, that's pretty good for passive conversion powers into active black collection, but you are better off with someone who, you know, actually has a functioning yellow power. 3* Thor and IMHB should be bestest buds. Thor's red is already weak, and he can take all the yellow and green and beat face with it. You can throw either SW in for her Purple here or IF for Purple into black, or someone else with a purple power that's good.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I wouldn't buy covers for this guy. I have a feeling he might be "updated" later.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    ArkPrime wrote:
    I wouldn't buy covers for this guy. I have a feeling he might be "updated" later.

    Agreed. the only question is when.

    3 Months down the line and covers may be a good investment. 1 month down the line and they are not. IMO.

    marc
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    ArkPrime wrote:
    I wouldn't buy covers for this guy. I have a feeling he might be "updated" later.
    I'll keep saying it...anyone who has an AP ability is grounds to be nerfed. Hulkbust at your own risk icon_cry.gif

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