Phaserhawk wrote: Polares wrote: Right now, what I want is the devs acknowledging this debate, and I want them to tell us if IF is going to be nerfed or not. TELL US NOW. I don't want to spend iso or even HP into him, and then devs nerfing him into oblivion in less than a month. Looking at the character, his skills are not broken, it's the cost or lack of cost that's the problem. IF's Green--Is actually underpowered IMO, I would like to see some of the black strength go into here. IF's Purple--the second half, 12 black + 5 purple to do 4K is actually fine, it's the 5AP for 9 Black that is the big problem. If the thought was to create a weird 10AP 4K damage skill they failed, A simple fix could be a Psylocke/Nick Fury hybrid type clause. My fix. Have this cost 10 AP, then for every 2 black AP you have it costs 1 less purple. That way if you boosted it still costs 6 purpleIron Fist of K'un-Lun - 10 AP Daniel Rand focuses his chi to make his fist like a thing unto iron and strikes. For every 2 Black AP the team has (rounded down), this skill costs 1 less purple AP (no less than 5), converts 5 basic tiles to Black. If the team has 12 or more Black AP, deals 498 damage instead. IF's Black--the skill is fine, the damage is waaaaaayyy too high. Again I would shift some of the power from this to green.The simplest fix would be to just switch the costs of his purple and green and lower the attack tile damage on black. he'd still be overly strong but nothing more than what we are used to.
Polares wrote: Right now, what I want is the devs acknowledging this debate, and I want them to tell us if IF is going to be nerfed or not. TELL US NOW. I don't want to spend iso or even HP into him, and then devs nerfing him into oblivion in less than a month.
Phantron wrote: Iron Fist is so out of whack that the question for spending resources on him is more like what if he gets nerfed tomorrow and you take a 5K or whatever HP loss that you spent onto him. This isn't like the past where we have no idea if devs cared about balance so we don't know for sure why Spiderman or Magneto stayed overpowered as they are for so long. This also isn't like Sentry or Daken who are overpowered but it was not obvious to most people why so it took a while before enough people realized they're indeed game breaking so you can bank on being ahead of the curve until enough people figured this out. There's nothing to figure out here with Iron Fist. He's way overpowered and I'm sure all the guys who say he needs to be nerfed can afford to max him, but they don't want to invest in him because it's hard to imagine he staying in his current form for even a week so getting a one week rental on Iron Fist for a few thousand HP is not exactly a good idea, given this game has a history of no refund on character nerf and even a big spender would not want a one week rental at that price. By the way, his green will generate stronger strike tiles than Battleplan if purple stays the way it is (making the 12 black AP condition trivial), which is the best strike tile generator ability previously in the game, and the fact that people aren't even going green indicates how powerful he is.
Phaserhawk wrote: I don't see him getting "fixed" anytime soon, and if they do, they will just scale down some of his abilties similiar to what they did with Daken, instead of a rebalance like a C.Mags where his skills were completely reworked. I see them doing a band-aid like his purple costs 7 and his black does like 50 less damage per turn, then they will walk away from it for a year.
onimus wrote: Being beatable on defense doesn't make a character not overpowered.
Phantron wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: I don't see him getting "fixed" anytime soon, and if they do, they will just scale down some of his abilties similiar to what they did with Daken, instead of a rebalance like a C.Mags where his skills were completely reworked. I see them doing a band-aid like his purple costs 7 and his black does like 50 less damage per turn, then they will walk away from it for a year. I don't particularly care how they plan to balance him (or not at all) as opposed to the time frame. He is probably worth a few thousand HP even for a one month rental at his power, but right now you have no idea how long this rental is going to be because he's too powerful. He's not a 4*, and he's not like Sentry where a lot of people thought wasn't all that good so it's hard to see why D3 wouldn't notice he's way overpowered (had he been a 4*, they might've looked the other way just because he's a 4*). If they announce that they'll take at least a month before balancing him I'll take him for a rental immediately. I think the only reason we've this huge outlash is not his raw power, but that people are uncertain how long a rental for him would be. If you're at the top of the game you obviously can afford to max him out, and if you're at all competitive not having him puts you at a severe disadvantage, but on the other hand even if you're super competitive you can't be very happy if you found out the HP you spent on him was only good for a 1 week rental, and this problem is going to get worse over time. That is, suppose after one week passed and he's still unnerfed, do you take the plunge now? And what happens if they nerfed him the next week? But without him you'd be at a significant disadvantage, so can you really afford to wait?
onimus wrote: You have an incredibly good chance of getting surgical strike turn 1. If you're facing an Xforce, that could mean an Xforce turn 1 too. He can, in fact, legitimately, win in 2 to 3 turns.
Ludaa wrote: He's incredibly fun to play with right now, and while his purple probably needs a cost increase, I say leave him be for a few months. I read a comparison to Sentry in here, oops, I mean the devil incarnate, and I have to chuckle. Sentry was the single best thing to happen for me in MPQ. Without Sentry hopping, I still might not have an Xforce, which now means I wouldn't have GT. So, let Iron Fist be an enabler for those without XF/GT for a while. Most of us here will be using XF/GT to curb stomp everything, wiping IF off the board in 3 or 4 turns. His black is no worse than having a bunch of enemy strike tiles out. If you can't kill him quickly, bring Spidey/Cage/Falcon(to buff your shields mostly)/Doc Ock(he has a use!). If it's Strike tiles plus IF's attack tile, bring Hulk and watch the screen turn greeeeeeeeeeen. Dear Devs, Use this as an opportunity to buff(Doc Ock!) or create counter skills, not nerfing (maybe dat purple tho).
Tripwire wrote: Yeah, I'm going to take a break from MPQ and only play the Deadpool Daily Quests until I see how this issue gets resolved. I'd like at least a fighting chance, but Iron Fist pretty much forces me to spend health packs every time I encounter him, and I'm not willing to do that.
simonsez wrote: onimus wrote: Being beatable on defense doesn't make a character not overpowered. So if your complaint isn't that it's too hard to fight against him, what exactly is the problem? Yes, his purple can get you a quick SS, but as far as winning a match, he's not the fastest.
NorthernPolarity wrote: simonsez wrote: onimus wrote: Being beatable on defense doesn't make a character not overpowered. So if your complaint isn't that it's too hard to fight against him, what exactly is the problem? Yes, his purple can get you a quick SS, but as far as winning a match, he's not the fastest. He's by far the fastest in 3* land. If your argument for why a nerf isn't necessary is that he's not as fast as XF / GT, then I don't know what to say, because you're comparing a 3* to 2 4*s that are at least 50% better than any existing 3* today.
woopie wrote: All powers below are at 5 covers Dr. Doom - all blue tiles to black for 9 AP Mystique - 10 random tiles to black or purple for 9 AP Cyclops - 8 TU tiles to red for 7 AP GSBW - 6 chosen tiles to green for 11AP IF - 9 random (basic) tiles to black for 5 AP or a bunch of damage if you have 12+ black. Definitely a disconnect in the power costs when you take a look at it
Wonko33 wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: simonsez wrote: onimus wrote: Being beatable on defense doesn't make a character not overpowered. So if your complaint isn't that it's too hard to fight against him, what exactly is the problem? Yes, his purple can get you a quick SS, but as far as winning a match, he's not the fastest. He's by far the fastest in 3* land. If your argument for why a nerf isn't necessary is that he's not as fast as XF / GT, then I don't know what to say, because you're comparing a 3* to 2 4*s that are at least 50% better than any existing 3* today. he's comparing because he's fast with a 4* (xforce), In the 3* realm, he could be pretty good with BP too I guess
Wonko33 wrote: woopie wrote: All powers below are at 5 covers Dr. Doom - all blue tiles to black for 9 AP Mystique - 10 random tiles to black or purple for 9 AP Cyclops - 8 TU tiles to red for 7 AP GSBW - 6 chosen tiles to green for 11AP IF - 9 random (basic) tiles to black for 5 AP or a bunch of damage if you have 12+ black. Definitely a disconnect in the power costs when you take a look at it but by himself he doesn't do much with all those blacks, the others you mentioned hit you with those generated colors, some hit pretty hard, so it should cost a bit less, but yeah that's a lot less on the cost. He's a combo guy