ark123 wrote: Here's the only way he's even remotely playable: Lvls 3 through 5 of his abilities make them better and are - 1ap. Countdowns? Seriously? I mean sure we always talk about how goons would be good characters, but this isn't what we meant.
Phantron wrote: His yellow is a disaster waiting to happen. Either it goes to -2 or even -3 AP cost leading to all kinds of crazy infinite combos, or it doesn't do that and stay at -1 so why would you want to use 7 AP to decrease the cost of an ability by 1? Are you really planning to use 8 AP consuming moves in 3 turns to come out ahead by 1 AP? It'd be much better if it's something like 'increases the effectiveness of (insert color) by (some #)', as that'd be way easier to tweak to get the desired effect. I don't have too much of an opinion on the other two abilities since it's hard to say how good they are without seeing the numbers, but I don't see how his yellow not end up either totally overpowered or totally useless.
Trisul wrote: Phantron wrote: His yellow is a disaster waiting to happen. Either it goes to -2 or even -3 AP cost leading to all kinds of crazy infinite combos, or it doesn't do that and stay at -1 so why would you want to use 7 AP to decrease the cost of an ability by 1? Are you really planning to use 8 AP consuming moves in 3 turns to come out ahead by 1 AP? It'd be much better if it's something like 'increases the effectiveness of (insert color) by (some #)', as that'd be way easier to tweak to get the desired effect. I don't have too much of an opinion on the other two abilities since it's hard to say how good they are without seeing the numbers, but I don't see how his yellow not end up either totally overpowered or totally useless. I don't see too much potential for infinite combos, considering that AP generation via tile destruction (this includes matching) will destroy countdown tiles that he's reliant on. If the AP discount was passive, I'd be more worried.
Ben Grimm wrote: He also looks like he probably needs to be */5/5 to be usable.
Spoit wrote: Not even remotely impressed but I mean, he's already streets ahead of where elektra is, so he has that going for him at least? And yeah, the 5th covers for 4* powers are usually way more transformative than normal
Trisul wrote: He'll help against Ragnarok, Juggernaut
ark123 wrote: I mean honestly, this isn't even Elektra level. This is close to IW levels of crappiness
Phantron wrote: Trisul wrote: Phantron wrote: His yellow is a disaster waiting to happen. Either it goes to -2 or even -3 AP cost leading to all kinds of crazy infinite combos, or it doesn't do that and stay at -1 so why would you want to use 7 AP to decrease the cost of an ability by 1? Are you really planning to use 8 AP consuming moves in 3 turns to come out ahead by 1 AP? It'd be much better if it's something like 'increases the effectiveness of (insert color) by (some #)', as that'd be way easier to tweak to get the desired effect. I don't have too much of an opinion on the other two abilities since it's hard to say how good they are without seeing the numbers, but I don't see how his yellow not end up either totally overpowered or totally useless. I don't see too much potential for infinite combos, considering that AP generation via tile destruction (this includes matching) will destroy countdown tiles that he's reliant on. If the AP discount was passive, I'd be more worried. If it's -3 AP, you can probably get pretty close with just multiple Thunderclaps and then use the green to try to loop back to something (green has all sorts of massive random AP generation abilities). You can already do something like Polarized Force -> Surgical Strike (a color that isn't red or green or black) -> X Force and there's a decent chance it'll somehow loop back to itself even when Surgical Strike is on the wrong color and none of these abilities generate any specific color AP that you need in the combo (if Surgical Strike is on green or red this combo will very easily loop itself in about 1-2 turns for red while green would usually be immediatelly loopable). I'm sure there's something else I haven't thought of at this point, and if it's less than -3 AP I'm not seeing how this would even make sense because at -2, you'd still need to use 4 moves to gain +1 AP and that just doesn't seem likely, but at -3 you start having quite a few moves that are down to 1 match range and the potential for abuse is definitely there.
Phaserhawk wrote: Are people seriously trashing him already? First off his red is godly, delaying skills just 1 turn is massive and has no one thought how his yellow will be amazing with 4hor? I have a very strong feeling this guy is going to be top tier, mark my words, this is the new Hood of 4*'s
NorthernPolarity wrote: I seriously doubt -2 AP does this: any combo is going to involve board shake up, which probably results in your CD tile being destroyed.
Phantron wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: I seriously doubt -2 AP does this: any combo is going to involve board shake up, which probably results in your CD tile being destroyed. Err, that's why I said at -3 AP it'd be broken. I can't think of any broken cases at -2, but at -2 you'd need to be able to use 4 abilities in 3 turns to get your value back. Now if the ability turns to something like '-2 AP cost plus some other stuff' that might work out, but that's impossible to predict based on its current powers. The fact that the tile itself will probably get destroyed eventually doesn't really matter because let's say we've a hypothetical -3 AP yellow, so say you have 9 red and you do 3 Thunderclaps, adding 12 green to the board, which is going to be an absolutely monstrous cascade and you should be able to assemble whatever nasty combo you're trying to do from there. You're talking about adding an amount of green equal to 2 Deceptive Tactics for 9r + 7y here, and sure it's not targeted but it probably doesn't even matter because you're adding so many green, it's bound to overload the board. For PvP you won't even need to try to infinite at this point because with a third decent green user that should immediately end the game (though fielding this team might be difficult under the current format). Okay maybe 9r + 7y isn't that unbelievably fast for PvP, but I doubt Thunderclap is the most broken thing you can do with this. It's just the first thing I'd like to try if it is indeed -3 AP. Another thing that comes to mind is that you can do Psychic Knife for 2 red AP after 3 strike tiles are up, and while Psylocke is pretty weak so that this might be sort of okay, that just doesn't sound right at all. Chemical Reaction at 2 blue AP would be quite broken too (if it applies to blue with some upgrade). There are just so many things that can go wrong at -3 AP, but -2 AP just doesn't seem like it'd be enough to justify the cost.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Meh, depends on what you consider "justify the cost" to be: it's obviously no Smite, but a 2 AP reduction on say 3 abilities more than justifies the cost. Remember that not all colors of AP are created equal, so doing something like going Starlord yellow into surge / smite or surgical could be decent. Certainly not game breaking or something to prioritize, but if you incidentally get yellow through a cascade, it would definitely be worth matching another yellow to get the AP cheapening on your other abilities. It's not crazy good, but its certainly at least average.