**** Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw) ****

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

They kinda screwed themselves when they kept hood's blue as it was. You can't do better than stealing a bunch of ap for free as soon as turn 2. I mean short countdown tiles are a giant step down from even aggressive recon, but I guess they're trying a workaround.

Any of you using luke cages black? Much worse than it seems on paper, right? And that one lasts 4 turns.

I think AP drain, as a concept, is going to be paying for the sins of Dormammu's Aid for a very long time. It's as if The Hood mortgaged the budget of all AP stealing abilities of the fugure for his blue and now completely unrelated guys have to suck at AP drain to make up for it.

Unknown

I disagree with the consensus of a 3/5/5 combo. His yellow just isn't going to be worth using except in niche situations (ex have 9 ap but have a strong 10ap red ability) his purple probably does massive dmg maxed out so I'd want this at 5 to get the most effect out of it. His red is like his purple with an added bonus (but slightly less dmg). He's not a great character but he's better when compared to iw and elektra (which isn't saying too much)

Edit: 5/5/3 is best with 4thor, cap, or other strong red users

Unknown

Mattfal wrote:

I disagree with the consensus of a 3/5/5 combo. His yellow just isn't going to be worth using except in niche situations (ex have 9 ap but have a strong 10ap red ability) his purple probably does massive dmg maxed out so I'd want this at 5 to get the most effect out of it. His red is like his purple with an added bonus (but slightly less dmg). He's not a great character but he's better when compared to iw and elektra (which isn't saying too much)

Not sure why people think his red or purple is going to suck. It's entirely dependent on what damage value they end up with. If he can sucker punch someone for 10K then that's still going to be quite good. I'm just opposed to his yellow as a concept. He can very well turn out to be a strong character depending on what the damage numbers of his red/purple looks like.

NorthernPolarity

Mattfal wrote:

I disagree with the consensus of a 3/5/5 combo. His yellow just isn't going to be worth using except in niche situations (ex have 9 ap but have a strong 10ap red ability) his purple probably does massive dmg maxed out so I'd want this at 5 to get the most effect out of it. His red is like his purple with an added bonus (but slightly less dmg). He's not a great character but he's better when compared to iw and elektra (which isn't saying too much)

Edit: 5/5/3 is best with 4thor, cap, or other strong red users

Stop being a forum guy and wait for the stats to get released before deciding on a build!

scottee

Pffft, you guys are missing the most obvious new dominating combo in the game. It'll change the meta. 1. A. P. Tiny. Arms.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

ark123 wrote:

They kinda screwed themselves when they kept hood's blue as it was. You can't do better than stealing a bunch of ap for free as soon as turn 2. I mean short countdown tiles are a giant step down from even aggressive recon, but I guess they're trying a workaround.

Any of you using luke cages black? Much worse than it seems on paper, right? And that one lasts 4 turns.

I think AP drain, as a concept, is going to be paying for the sins of Dormammu's Aid for a very long time. It's as if The Hood mortgaged the budget of all AP stealing abilities of the fugure for his blue and now completely unrelated guys have to suck at AP drain to make up for it.

Starlord is screwed unless his 5 cover ability is some sort of OBW espionage/Surgical strike.

I think the only way Hood's passive can be beat is with a PASSIVE AP discount, or an ability that would let you use X COLOR ABILITY for free after(5 covers, ofc).

Or maybe something like Falcon's where you need a minimum for 'effect' to happen.

Of course, this isn't Magic the Gathering or DOTA 2, so I don't see D3 actually doing anything this ballsy.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

In the interview I saw a blurb about how you can use Thunderclap for 4 AP so I'm guessing it's not going beyond -2 AP. I'm just not seeing the point of an ability on principle that costs more than its benefit. The only way it can work out is if you accidentally got a bunch of yellow, but if you're trying to match yellow to fire this ability you'd be coming out behind since you could've matched something else instead. Let's just say your team is X Force/Thor/Star-Lord, in a generic situation you'd be better off matching black, red, blue, or green over yellow. Sure, if you happen to have exactly 4 yellow AP and you have exactly 8 red AP and 7 blue AP you'll rather have the yellow instead, but that's a fairly contrived situation. If you're trying to recreate this situation with AP+3 all boosts, you can usually just flat out overpower something with a straight race to Surgical Strike or Power Surge.

QFT

Unknown

scottee wrote:

Pffft, you guys are missing the most obvious new dominating combo in the game. It'll change the meta. 1. A. P. Tiny. Arms.

The AI should be allowed to have a 0 AP Prehistoric Arms that bypasses the normal rules so it'll just use them for an infinite number of times and the only way to get out of it is hitting quit, since if any usage of Prehistoric Arms resulted in no cascade, any subsequent use will have no cascade as well as you're just swapping a black with black, red with red, and so on. 7 yellow AP instant defense win!

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

Starlord is screwed unless his 5 cover ability is some sort of OBW espionage/Surgical strike.

I think the only way Hood's passive can be beat is with a PASSIVE AP discount, or an ability that would let you use X COLOR ABILITY for free after(5 covers, ofc).

Or maybe something like Falcon's where you need a minimum for 'effect' to happen.

Of course, this isn't Magic the Gathering or DOTA 2, so I don't see D3 actually doing anything this ballsy.

Surgical Strike's damage went up by something like 3 times from level 3 to 5 so I don't think having a 10K damage red or purple is out of the question. Would be pretty surprised, but it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

Phantron wrote:

ark123 wrote:

They kinda screwed themselves when they kept hood's blue as it was. You can't do better than stealing a bunch of ap for free as soon as turn 2. I mean short countdown tiles are a giant step down from even aggressive recon, but I guess they're trying a workaround.

Any of you using luke cages black? Much worse than it seems on paper, right? And that one lasts 4 turns.

I think AP drain, as a concept, is going to be paying for the sins of Dormammu's Aid for a very long time. It's as if The Hood mortgaged the budget of all AP stealing abilities of the fugure for his blue and now completely unrelated guys have to suck at AP drain to make up for it.

Starlord is screwed unless his 5 cover ability is some sort of OBW espionage/Surgical strike.

I think the only way Hood's passive can be beat is with a PASSIVE AP discount, or an ability that would let you use X COLOR ABILITY for free after(5 covers, ofc).

Or maybe something like Falcon's where you need a minimum for 'effect' to happen.

Of course, this isn't Magic the Gathering or DOTA 2, so I don't see D3 actually doing anything this ballsy.

See, now a PASSIVE yellow that required 7 yellow AP before it functioned, and reduced all costs by 2 (or even 1) without involving CDs would be an actual game changer.

Looking at his powers again, they seem like what I would expect on a new Goon, not a new 4* character. Swap red for black and you've got yourself a variant Mafia Don, making his allies powers cheaper, your powers more expensive, and throwing out purple traps. If Star Lord generated AP every round in his colors he would be killer. Instead he's a drain on resources that disguises itself as a booster. The only hope he has for sustained team use is if winds up being 7k+ team damage skill.

Unknown

From the interview regarding his purple: http://marvel.com/news/comics/23985/pie ... _star-lord

At higher levels, Star-Lord can even replace Countdown tiles with this, allowing for a good amount of board control ability at a respectable 10 Purple AP per use.

So each level is probably more types of tiles, like level 3, attack tiles, level 4 strike tiles, level 5 countdowns, with possibly more damage in between. Note it is a "Selected" tile, so it won't be as broken as Moonstone. However, it does add significantly to the cost, though it's still less than any of Cap's abilities. Also, the oldest trick image is hilarious.

So 5 Purple is probably essential in PVE. In PVP where there aren't many countdowns, it'll probably depend on the damage. I can't see why people see red as so good unless it provides a knockout blow, or you're using him heavily on AP goons.

simonsez

daibar wrote:

I can't see why people see red as so good unless it provides a knockout blow, or you're using him heavily on AP goons.

I'm not sure who's saying it's so good, since this whole thread seems like nothing but everyone saying how much he's gonna suck. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone figures out a loop that red enables, and then all of a sudden he'll become a must-have.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

From the interview regarding his purple: http://marvel.com/news/comics/23985/pie ... _star-lord

At higher levels, Star-Lord can even replace Countdown tiles with this, allowing for a good amount of board control ability at a respectable 10 Purple AP per use.

So each level is probably more types of tiles, like level 3, attack tiles, level 4 strike tiles, level 5 countdowns, with possibly more damage in between. Note it is a "Selected" tile, so it won't be as broken as Moonstone. However, it does add significantly to the cost, though it's still less than any of Cap's abilities. Also, the oldest trick image is hilarious.

So 5 Purple is probably essential in PVE. In PVP where there aren't many countdowns, it'll probably depend on the damage. I can't see why people see red as so good unless it provides a knockout blow, or you're using him heavily on AP goons.

I mean you're probably playing pve now. You know the node that throws out a pistol countdown every turn? How useful would it be to replace a single countdown there? At least Steve does a ton of damage or stuns when he does it.

Phantron wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Starlord is screwed unless his 5 cover ability is some sort of OBW espionage/Surgical strike.

I think the only way Hood's passive can be beat is with a PASSIVE AP discount, or an ability that would let you use X COLOR ABILITY for free after(5 covers, ofc).

Or maybe something like Falcon's where you need a minimum for 'effect' to happen.

Of course, this isn't Magic the Gathering or DOTA 2, so I don't see D3 actually doing anything this ballsy.

Surgical Strike's damage went up by something like 3 times from level 3 to 5 so I don't think having a 10K damage red or purple is out of the question. Would be pretty surprised, but it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Yeah the key here is conditional damage. Luke Cage's yellow does a ridiculous amount of damage because it's conditional. Same with his black, except the conditions for black are much harder than the yellow, so yellow is a much better ability.

I also think Dormammu's Aid should need a certain amount of some ap to become active. 4*s shouldn't have anything like the current D.A because they get way more health, and Hood's **** health is the only thing that holds it back from being the best character in the game (arguably).

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Mattfal wrote:

I disagree with the consensus of a 3/5/5 combo. His yellow just isn't going to be worth using except in niche situations (ex have 9 ap but have a strong 10ap red ability) his purple probably does massive dmg maxed out so I'd want this at 5 to get the most effect out of it. His red is like his purple with an added bonus (but slightly less dmg). He's not a great character but he's better when compared to iw and elektra (which isn't saying too much)

Edit: 5/5/3 is best with 4thor, cap, or other strong red users

Stop being a forum guy and wait for the stats to get released before deciding on a build!

Im guessing that will be his best build(s). I could be wrong

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

I also think Dormammu's Aid should need a certain amount of some ap to become active. 4*s shouldn't have anything like the current D.A because they get way more health, and Hood's **** health is the only thing that holds it back from being the best character in the game (arguably).

I think they need to drop this whole 'a guy can be totally overpowered if he has no HP' idea because it just doesn't work most of the time and when it does you got someone like Mohawk Storm that's wondering what did she ever did to warrant getting instant killed by X Force to ensure she'd never be remotely playable on the high end just because she shares The Hood's HP class. I'm guessing the current idea is that we're all supposed to use characters with ~10K HP that don't have any really super cheap combos (and Thor would have a much harder time pulling off any Power Surge combos if all 3 of your opponents have at least 10K HP) except there aren't that many viable characters with at least 10K HP at this point, and those without seems to just get overrun instantly due to a fairly obvious directed effort to keep super cheap characters like The Hood from being dominant.

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

daibar wrote:

From the interview regarding his purple: http://marvel.com/news/comics/23985/pie ... _star-lord

At higher levels, Star-Lord can even replace Countdown tiles with this, allowing for a good amount of board control ability at a respectable 10 Purple AP per use.

So each level is probably more types of tiles, like level 3, attack tiles, level 4 strike tiles, level 5 countdowns, with possibly more damage in between. Note it is a "Selected" tile, so it won't be as broken as Moonstone. However, it does add significantly to the cost, though it's still less than any of Cap's abilities. Also, the oldest trick image is hilarious.

So 5 Purple is probably essential in PVE. In PVP where there aren't many countdowns, it'll probably depend on the damage. I can't see why people see red as so good unless it provides a knockout blow, or you're using him heavily on AP goons.

I mean you're probably playing pve now. You know the node that throws out a pistol countdown every turn? How useful would it be to replace a single countdown there? At least Steve does a ton of damage or stuns when he does it.

Phantron wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Starlord is screwed unless his 5 cover ability is some sort of OBW espionage/Surgical strike.

I think the only way Hood's passive can be beat is with a PASSIVE AP discount, or an ability that would let you use X COLOR ABILITY for free after(5 covers, ofc).

Or maybe something like Falcon's where you need a minimum for 'effect' to happen.

Of course, this isn't Magic the Gathering or DOTA 2, so I don't see D3 actually doing anything this ballsy.

Surgical Strike's damage went up by something like 3 times from level 3 to 5 so I don't think having a 10K damage red or purple is out of the question. Would be pretty surprised, but it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Yeah the key here is conditional damage. Luke Cage's yellow does a ridiculous amount of damage because it's conditional. Same with his black, except the conditions for black are much harder than the yellow, so yellow is a much better ability.

I also think Dormammu's Aid should need a certain amount of some ap to become active. 4*s shouldn't have anything like the current D.A because they get way more health, and Hood's **** health is the only thing that holds it back from being the best character in the game (arguably).

leave Dormammu's aid alone, it might be the only overpowered thing I get my hands on BEFORE it gets nerfed(I missed Spidey/Rag/3*Mag/didn't have max sentry)

on a more serious note, 4* characters can be good without being compared to the Hood. We know there's at least 1 designer at D3 that can make characters(Luke Cage/Blade/R+G/Loki Remake/Doom Remake). It's not Hood's fault he's good.

It's 4* character designer's fault for making them bad, ESPECIALLY when they're hyped: Right now we only have 3 "Good" 4* characters(XForce/Devil/Thor) out of how many? Even still, the expectation for 4* characters to actually be good is relatively recent with X-Force(not that that's an excuse). There's an opposing dichotomy of "we're supposed to want 4* characters" and "they're not really better than 3* characters".

NorthernPolarity

raisinbman wrote:

ark123 wrote:

daibar wrote:

From the interview regarding his purple: http://marvel.com/news/comics/23985/pie ... _star-lord

At higher levels, Star-Lord can even replace Countdown tiles with this, allowing for a good amount of board control ability at a respectable 10 Purple AP per use.

So each level is probably more types of tiles, like level 3, attack tiles, level 4 strike tiles, level 5 countdowns, with possibly more damage in between. Note it is a "Selected" tile, so it won't be as broken as Moonstone. However, it does add significantly to the cost, though it's still less than any of Cap's abilities. Also, the oldest trick image is hilarious.

So 5 Purple is probably essential in PVE. In PVP where there aren't many countdowns, it'll probably depend on the damage. I can't see why people see red as so good unless it provides a knockout blow, or you're using him heavily on AP goons.

I mean you're probably playing pve now. You know the node that throws out a pistol countdown every turn? How useful would it be to replace a single countdown there? At least Steve does a ton of damage or stuns when he does it.

Phantron wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Starlord is screwed unless his 5 cover ability is some sort of OBW espionage/Surgical strike.

I think the only way Hood's passive can be beat is with a PASSIVE AP discount, or an ability that would let you use X COLOR ABILITY for free after(5 covers, ofc).

Or maybe something like Falcon's where you need a minimum for 'effect' to happen.

Of course, this isn't Magic the Gathering or DOTA 2, so I don't see D3 actually doing anything this ballsy.

Surgical Strike's damage went up by something like 3 times from level 3 to 5 so I don't think having a 10K damage red or purple is out of the question. Would be pretty surprised, but it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Yeah the key here is conditional damage. Luke Cage's yellow does a ridiculous amount of damage because it's conditional. Same with his black, except the conditions for black are much harder than the yellow, so yellow is a much better ability.

I also think Dormammu's Aid should need a certain amount of some ap to become active. 4*s shouldn't have anything like the current D.A because they get way more health, and Hood's **** health is the only thing that holds it back from being the best character in the game (arguably).

leave Dormammu's aid alone, it might be the only overpowered thing I get my hands on BEFORE it gets nerfed(I missed Spidey/Rag/3*Mag/didn't have max sentry)

on a more serious note, 4* characters can be good without being compared to the Hood. We know there's at least 1 designer at D3 that can make characters(Luke Cage/Blade/R+G/Loki Remake/Doom Remake). It's not Hood's fault he's good.

It's 4* character designer's fault for making them bad, ESPECIALLY when they're hyped: Right now we only have 3 "Good" 4* characters(XForce/Devil/Thor) out of how many? Even still, the expectation for 4* characters to actually be good is relatively recent with X-Force(not that that's an excuse). There's an opposing dichotomy of "we're supposed to want 4* characters" and "they're not really better than 3* characters".

You're forgetting Fury, which is what I think is the perfect example of a balanced 4* character. The expectation of 4* characters should be around the same power level as Fury, which I think is pretty reasonable. XF / Ladythor are so above the curve that releasing characters as good as them is just going to result in insane power creep. Maybe Demiurge needs to consider nerfing them as a result.

Unknown

I'd take out Dino in that sentence for Fury. Dino is pretty unplayable. After the novelty wore off and sentry was nerfed, I see like a single Dino a pvp, and it's usually under 800.

Agreed that the 3*s os late have been pretty well designed as a while, gamora notwithstanding.

Hood needs to be mentioned here because this is a game where stealing ap and reducing costs almost boil down to the same thing. It's not like you're gonna cast 6 or 7 surgical strikes in a match. The most important by far is the first, so gathering 7 yellow to make surgical cost 10 seems like a pretty awful deal. This is less the case in pve, but even in pve I have trouble picturing this guy ever being better than Lcap.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

You're forgetting Fury, which is what I think is the perfect example of a balanced 4* character. The expectation of 4* characters should be around the same power level as Fury, which I think is pretty reasonable. XF / Ladythor are so above the curve that releasing characters as good as them is just going to result in insane power creep. Maybe Demiurge needs to consider nerfing them as a result.

I remember putting my HP into Nick Fury since he was indeed the perfect example of a balanced 4* and I figure D3 knows what they're doing. Turned out they did not, but Fury still should be the standard for balance so far as 4*. All his moves are pretty insane but they're not easy to use and fairly slow. He probably should be at the limit of what can be considered balanced, because his colors are really the oddball/weak colors of MPQ so his power should be the peak of what's possible to punish people who neglect these colors. If Demolition is green, for example, it should be a lot weaker because we certainly don't need to encourage people to use green. Although X Force and Thor are both clearly above the curve, I think they should at least revisit the color coverages in general first. For example, if Power Surge is green, Thor would suddenly be considerably weaker as now you're giving up an X Force to start your combo and that indirectly greatly increases the cost of her combo. It's actually pretty interesting that the notable difference between Thor (4*) and the rest of the Thor is having blue instead of green, and had her power been exactly the same with those colors, she'd have been a much weaker character. Well, I think X Force will be overpowered with any combination of colors for his moves, but at least Thor might be balanced by just shifting her strong move from an off color (blue) to a contested color (green).

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

I'd take out Dino in that sentence for Fury. Dino is pretty unplayable. After the novelty wore off and sentry was nerfed, I see like a single Dino a pvp, and it's usually under 800.

Agreed that the 3*s os late have been pretty well designed as a while, gamora notwithstanding.

Hood needs to be mentioned here because this is a game where stealing ap and reducing costs almost boil down to the same thing. It's not like you're gonna cast 6 or 7 surgical strikes in a match. The most important by far is the first, so gathering 7 yellow to make surgical cost 10 seems like a pretty awful deal. This is less the case in pve, but even in pve I have trouble picturing this guy ever being better than Lcap.

Yeah I forgot Fury earlier.

I dunno. I still think Dino is awesome. Yes, he's not X-Force *rolls eyes* - but he's still a powerful 4* that has lots of HP.

And sure you may not have seen dino alot, but he takes an insane amount of Iso to actually get up there, not to mention the fact you can't readily get covers.

I just don't think Dino isn't being used because he's "bad" but because there are "conditions" to actually use him.

Any player with half a brain is gonna level/invest in X-Force/4*Thor before devil