**** Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw) ****

turul

Data-mined upgrades:
Keep in mind that I only see the text without actual numbers, I may be even wrong.

Sleight of Hand
lvl 3 or 4: will be able to replace CD tiles.
lvl 4 or 5: will have ??? team-damage too.

Everyone with me



/probably longer CD/
/more AP/

/no /

Oldest Trick


/more dmg/
/probably longer CD/
/probaby more dmg, probably more AP/
/more dmg, probably more AP/
/no /

Spoliers of what he shouts for Oldest Trick

Hey! Is that Beta Ray Bill?
Hey! Is that Moon-Boy?
Hey! Is that D-Man?
Hey! Is that Alpha Flight?
Hey! Is that The Pet Avengers?

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Are people seriously trashing him already? First off his red is godly, delaying skills just 1 turn is massive and has no one thought how his yellow will be amazing with 4hor? I have a very strong feeling this guy is going to be top tier, mark my words, this is the new Hood of 4*'s

You can't use his "godly" red with Thor. And it isn't going to delay that much considering the costs of powers very rarely fall on the 3/6/9/12 cost range. Adding 1 to a power that costs 10 is useless most times. Also, if you go out of your way to get 7 yellow you've just slowed down Thor by more than he can make up.

Vhailorx wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Meh, depends on what you consider "justify the cost" to be: it's obviously no Smite, but a 2 AP reduction on say 3 abilities more than justifies the cost. Remember that not all colors of AP are created equal, so doing something like going Starlord yellow into surge / smite or surgical could be decent. Certainly not game breaking or something to prioritize, but if you incidentally get yellow through a cascade, it would definitely be worth matching another yellow to get the AP cheapening on your other abilities. It's not crazy good, but its certainly at least average.

There is definitely some value in shifting ap from one color to another (i.e., a 10 ap move that generates 7 ap in another color might be worth it, depending on the other color), but there is definitely a tipping point to this kind of arbitrage.

I have a hard time thinking that a -2 modifier for starlord's yellow will be worth it most of the time. Assuming it still costs 7 ap, and assuming that you can cast 3 abilities during the countdown period, that's effectively turning 7 yellow ap into 6 ap of other colors. that's not a bad ability. But I don't think it's good enough to be premier (look at some of the other best ap generation skills like mnmags, GSBW, or the old gold standard of pre-nerf cMags). And I expect that waiting until you can actually get 3 abilities off during the countdown will be a better than average scenario.

Maybe there is some hidden value to effectively generating ap of any color, rather than one particular one, but I remain somewhat skeptical.

Basically this. And the whole idea that at 5 covers yellow will reduce cost by 2 AP is speculation.

Unknown

turul wrote:

/no /

So by "Everyone With Me" you mean "Everyone But XF With Me". Seriously why would it exclude black at max covers? And no purple for ? ****? If you want to bill him as the next coming of The Hood, he has to affect all colors equally at the very least.

Does Oldest Trick In The Book do it's damage when the CD is placed? When it resolves? Increasing CD length on any damage related skill is almost always terribly bad. MNM , for example. If it did it's damage up front it wouldn't matter on CD length I guess.

turul

Lerysh wrote:

Does Oldest Trick In The Book do it's damage when the CD is placed? When it resolves? Increasing CD length on any damage related skill is almost always terribly bad. MNM , for example. If it did it's damage up front it wouldn't matter on CD length I guess.

It pretty much looks like dealing damage after CD-resolution.

Infrared

turul wrote:

Everyone with me
/no /

Bah. There goes my cunning plan to abuse this with Jab-Jab-Cross.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

I look forward to having him be playable sometime in the Fall or Winter.

I really wish they'd slow down the 4* releases.

I look forward to him being playable whenever he's max-powered up or 2 years from now.

I really wish they'd slow down the 4* releases.

----

HEY EVERYONE ITS LIKE U SAID HE PLAYS WELL WITH GAMORA *sarcasm*

Unknown

Why does it make me so mad when they release a new 4* in a broken PvE format ?

I'll join as late as possible and see if I end up in an easier bracket this time.

Not really willing to have a complete week of sleepless nights.

Unknown

Maybe with Loki and X-Force? Illusions at 4 isn't too shabby, 3 is crazy good. Possibly Ragnarok if he gets a 3rd power? Even Devil Dino might work.

Doesn't seem that good defensively though; hopefully his ability damage ramps up.

Phaserhawk

Lerysh wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Are people seriously trashing him already? First off his red is godly, delaying skills just 1 turn is massive and has no one thought how his yellow will be amazing with 4hor? I have a very strong feeling this guy is going to be top tier, mark my words, this is the new Hood of 4*'s

You can't use his "godly" red with Thor. And it isn't going to delay that much considering the costs of powers very rarely fall on the 3/6/9/12 cost range. Adding 1 to a power that costs 10 is useless most times. Also, if you go out of your way to get 7 yellow you've just slowed down Thor by more than he can make up.

Vhailorx wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Meh, depends on what you consider "justify the cost" to be: it's obviously no Smite, but a 2 AP reduction on say 3 abilities more than justifies the cost. Remember that not all colors of AP are created equal, so doing something like going Starlord yellow into surge / smite or surgical could be decent. Certainly not game breaking or something to prioritize, but if you incidentally get yellow through a cascade, it would definitely be worth matching another yellow to get the AP cheapening on your other abilities. It's not crazy good, but its certainly at least average.

There is definitely some value in shifting ap from one color to another (i.e., a 10 ap move that generates 7 ap in another color might be worth it, depending on the other color), but there is definitely a tipping point to this kind of arbitrage.

I have a hard time thinking that a -2 modifier for starlord's yellow will be worth it most of the time. Assuming it still costs 7 ap, and assuming that you can cast 3 abilities during the countdown period, that's effectively turning 7 yellow ap into 6 ap of other colors. that's not a bad ability. But I don't think it's good enough to be premier (look at some of the other best ap generation skills like mnmags, GSBW, or the old gold standard of pre-nerf cMags). And I expect that waiting until you can actually get 3 abilities off during the countdown will be a better than average scenario.

Maybe there is some hidden value to effectively generating ap of any color, rather than one particular one, but I remain somewhat skeptical.

Basically this. And the whole idea that at 5 covers yellow will reduce cost by 2 AP is speculation.

Yeah, so if say he does end up reducing costs by 2 which I think is likely. Then all of a sudden you boost red/yellow AP, green/black AP, and all AP. One yellow match and now you have all you need to cast X-Force. One red match and now all their skills cost 2 more. Hmm, 2nd turn X-Force will sure sound good to me. There is a reason why in Magic the Gathering, skills that reduced overall cost were so valued, because they accelerated your play, sure they could blow it up, but you already got that jump start you needed. But lets say for arguements sake that it is only one. Here are the Character/skills most affected by his yellow.
(PvP playable)
Devil Dino--his red and yellow are now 2 match abilities
Fury--Demolition just became a 3 match ability
4hor--Smite became a 3 match ability
Blade--KYEC just became 3 match ability
Capt Marvel--Photonic just became a 2 match ability
Colossus--Fastball just became 3 match
Doom--Diabolic 3 match now
C.Mags--Blue is now 3 match

And his red screws over these guys (only going over PvP playable)
Patch--Beserker Rage
Thor--Thunder Stirke
Deadpool--red
Captain America--blue
Black Panther--yellow and black
X-Force--yellow
Fury--yellow and purple
4hor--yellow and blue

But honestly I see this going to -2 AP and +2 AP, if turul's info is correct, you won't be able to 3rd turn surgical strike, but you will be able to
2nd turn X-Force
3rd turn Star Spangled Avenger
Gamora can spam Razor's Edge with 1 red match
2nd turn Fireball
2nd turn Polarizing Force
2nd turn Shapeshift
Pyslocke's red with 3 strike tiles is a 1 match red
3rd turn I got a Plan, so 5th turn 4 x 261 strike tiles out
3rd turn Supernova
Spiderman's blue is now a 1 match ability

I'm not sure about some of you, but I can see some very fun things going on with this. You could cast his yellow, then be able to cast his red as well 2nd turn with boosts thus adding 2 onto all their skilsl and you now have a CD tile counting down. Not to mention the insanity this will have with Captian America.

Star Spangled Avenger will cost 9, but get 10 back
Peacemaker will cost 10 and you get 10 back

The Synergy with Rocket/Groot and Gamora is very apparent. You guys can hate as you will, but a boosted 2nd turn cast of a skill that now reduces everything but my black skills by 2AP is top notch in my book.

turul

Since we want to keep CD-tiles, He is not very XForce compatible.

Best build should be 553. You need the cheaper purple for own purple ability.

Making enemy abilities cost more with a CD tile is too unreliable to put covers on it / you wont collect AP for it unless no better move.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

ark123 wrote:

I mean honestly, this isn't even Elektra level. This is close to IW levels of crappiness

That's just low. Purple alone is probably gonna be like 7k at the lowest at level 5 for 10AP, which is miles better than anything that IW can do.

Regarding his yellow, I dunno. I'm thinking about what would happen if it reduced everything by two, and would that really be that OP? I think 1 AP would be worthless, and 2 AP would be good, but not completely broken.

if you think that's the case, you should be firmly in the camp of WR still being one of the best abilities in the game. With a few strike tiles it's 12 green to straight up kill the enemy team, since the 3 turn wait doesn't need to be considered.

This is a 4* that's countered by falcon. Think about that for a second.

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

ark123 wrote:

I mean honestly, this isn't even Elektra level. This is close to IW levels of crappiness

That's just low. Purple alone is probably gonna be like 7k at the lowest at level 5 for 10AP, which is miles better than anything that IW can do.

Regarding his yellow, I dunno. I'm thinking about what would happen if it reduced everything by two, and would that really be that OP? I think 1 AP would be worthless, and 2 AP would be good, but not completely broken.

if you think that's the case, you should be firmly in the camp of WR still being one of the best abilities in the game. With a few strike tiles it's 12 green to straight up kill the enemy team, since the 3 turn wait doesn't need to be considered.

This is a 4* that's countered by falcon. Think about that for a second.

Falcon might give him some trouble one-on-one, but why would you cast yellow before you have the AP available to cast the next ability? Further, you could use some other character's strike tiles as bait.

Against Falcon pair him with Daken. Daken becomes deadly with Heat at 3 AP, and gives you a purpose for the denied Blue.

Phaserhawk

If it's 2AP, which seems likely this is going to be the scenario.

Boost red/yellow, boost green/black, boost All plus 3

1st turn. Match yellow
2nd turn. Cast "Everyone with Me"

Now 2 options, do you cast Oldest trick in the book now, or wait till after you use your X-Force and hope the yellow tile survives, either way, you just X-Forced someone.

Lets say it survives, you then cast Oldest Trick in the Book. match something.

Assuming your red tile survives you can probably finish off the person you x-Forced as you are going for Surgical Strike.

Im guessin purple will have a trick up it's sleeve at level 5 or so, maybe creates 2 tiles or CD timer goes down to 2, which just makes it a Purple Sunder without the self damage.

What I want to know, is can you have more than 1 of those tiles out? Because that would be sweet if you could. Yellow goes to 5, then 1, then 0. I'm guessing probably not, but that would be pretty sweet.

turul

Updated data-miner post.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22670&start=40#p286124

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

If it's 2AP, which seems likely this is going to be the scenario.

Boost red/yellow, boost green/black, boost All plus 3

1st turn. Match yellow
2nd turn. Cast "Everyone with Me"

Now 2 options, do you cast Oldest trick in the book now, or wait till after you use your X-Force and hope the yellow tile survives, either way, you just X-Forced someone.

Lets say it survives, you then cast Oldest Trick in the Book. match something.

Assuming your red tile survives you can probably finish off the person you x-Forced as you are going for Surgical Strike.

Im guessin purple will have a trick up it's sleeve at level 5 or so, maybe creates 2 tiles or CD timer goes down to 2, which just makes it a Purple Sunder without the self damage.

What I want to know, is can you have more than 1 of those tiles out? Because that would be sweet if you could. Yellow goes to 5, then 1, then 0. I'm guessing probably not, but that would be pretty sweet.

Or you know, boost all and black and actually kill people using xforce on turns 2 and 3.

The wording on purple and yellow makes me think you can actually fire off several of those countdowns at the same time, and it doesnt say anything about lowering abilities costs under 1, so there's some potential for abuse in survival nodes I guess. I can't see having to use a 7 cost ability that has no immediate effect on the board or health totals as being something that's ever going to be viable in pvp though.

Phaserhawk

ark123 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

If it's 2AP, which seems likely this is going to be the scenario.

Boost red/yellow, boost green/black, boost All plus 3

1st turn. Match yellow
2nd turn. Cast "Everyone with Me"

Now 2 options, do you cast Oldest trick in the book now, or wait till after you use your X-Force and hope the yellow tile survives, either way, you just X-Forced someone.

Lets say it survives, you then cast Oldest Trick in the Book. match something.

Assuming your red tile survives you can probably finish off the person you x-Forced as you are going for Surgical Strike.

Im guessin purple will have a trick up it's sleeve at level 5 or so, maybe creates 2 tiles or CD timer goes down to 2, which just makes it a Purple Sunder without the self damage.

What I want to know, is can you have more than 1 of those tiles out? Because that would be sweet if you could. Yellow goes to 5, then 1, then 0. I'm guessing probably not, but that would be pretty sweet.

Or you know, boost all and black and actually kill people using xforce on turns 2 and 3.

The wording on purple and yellow makes me think you can actually fire off several of those countdowns at the same time, and it doesnt say anything about lowering abilities costs under 1, so there's some potential for abuse in survival nodes I guess. I can't see having to use a 7 cost ability that has no immediate effect on the board or health totals as being something that's ever going to be viable in pvp though.

Yeah, that's what I said, boost red/yellow, boost black/green, then boost all so you would start R,Y,G,Black with +6 AP everything else 3. I understand what you are saying, but if you match yellow first and then use it next turn you can now cast X-Force. Then match green, you just saved yourself 2 AP that way, again assuming the tile survives, which you have a 75% chance it does.

Everyone gets so caught up in damage, damage, damage they forget to see the bigger picture. Yes the skill is on a CD tile so it has it's weakness, but 7 AP that if survives saves you 2AP on your skills is just absurdly good. Serioulsy 2nd turn X-Force!!! Purple I'm up in the air on, because if it does massive damage, that's a much better way to ensure the death of an opponent rather than slowing them up in red. Where I see him being used is opposite 4hor, because she wants blue and red, but also accelerates yellow, and Star Lord will just allow 4hor to lock the game and win faster than she already does, how is that a bad thing?

FaustianDeal

The trend of friendly countdown tiles that you want to keep running continues.
Is this all part of a nefarious plot to validate Bag-Man?

My 2 guesses for Gauntlet nodes that inevitably feature Star-Lord
* Bag-Man/Luke Cage/Star-Lord -- as the countdowns just keep ticking, and you keep eating 4-cost jab-jab-crosses
* Luke Cage/Star-Lord/Maggia Don -- How do you make the Cage/Lord combo more painful - add a guy who passively generates yellow and black

Hulk11

Doesn't his hand look really small, the picture with the funny grimace.

Vhailorx

Phaserhawk wrote:

Yeah, that's what I said, boost red/yellow, boost black/green, then boost all so you would start R,Y,G,Black with +6 AP everything else 3. I understand what you are saying, but if you match yellow first and then use it next turn you can now cast X-Force. Then match green, you just saved yourself 2 AP that way, again assuming the tile survives, which you have a 75% chance it does.

Everyone gets so caught up in damage, damage, damage they forget to see the bigger picture. Yes the skill is on a CD tile so it has it's weakness, but 7 AP that if survives saves you 2AP on your skills is just absurdly good. Serioulsy 2nd turn X-Force!!! Purple I'm up in the air on, because if it does massive damage, that's a much better way to ensure the death of an opponent rather than slowing them up in red. Where I see him being used is opposite 4hor, because she wants blue and red, but also accelerates yellow, and Star Lord will just allow 4hor to lock the game and win faster than she already does, how is that a bad thing?

I don't get your point phaserhawk. you seem to be pointing out that boosting ap going into a match is great. That's true!

But why should i care that by max boosting ap and then casting starlord's yellow, I can cast xforce on round 2? If I max boost green, and then make one green match, I can already cast xforce on round 2. And I have an entire second character slot to use (with 4* Thor!).

Phaserhawk

Vhailorx wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Yeah, that's what I said, boost red/yellow, boost black/green, then boost all so you would start R,Y,G,Black with +6 AP everything else 3. I understand what you are saying, but if you match yellow first and then use it next turn you can now cast X-Force. Then match green, you just saved yourself 2 AP that way, again assuming the tile survives, which you have a 75% chance it does.

Everyone gets so caught up in damage, damage, damage they forget to see the bigger picture. Yes the skill is on a CD tile so it has it's weakness, but 7 AP that if survives saves you 2AP on your skills is just absurdly good. Serioulsy 2nd turn X-Force!!! Purple I'm up in the air on, because if it does massive damage, that's a much better way to ensure the death of an opponent rather than slowing them up in red. Where I see him being used is opposite 4hor, because she wants blue and red, but also accelerates yellow, and Star Lord will just allow 4hor to lock the game and win faster than she already does, how is that a bad thing?

I don't get your point phaserhawk. you seem to be pointing out that boosting ap going into a match is great. That's true!

But why should i care that by max boosting ap and then casting starlord's yellow, I can cast xforce on round 2? If I max boost green, and then make one green match, I can already cast xforce on round 2. And I have an entire second character slot to use (with 4* Thor!).

The point is you have a tile that is reducing every other skill on your team by 2 AP. Giving X-Force may not be the best example but this skill is awesome, and if multiple's can be cast, hoo boy.