Phaserhawk wrote: Are people seriously trashing him already? First off his red is godly, delaying skills just 1 turn is massive and has no one thought how his yellow will be amazing with 4hor? I have a very strong feeling this guy is going to be top tier, mark my words, this is the new Hood of 4*'s
Vhailorx wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: Meh, depends on what you consider "justify the cost" to be: it's obviously no Smite, but a 2 AP reduction on say 3 abilities more than justifies the cost. Remember that not all colors of AP are created equal, so doing something like going Starlord yellow into surge / smite or surgical could be decent. Certainly not game breaking or something to prioritize, but if you incidentally get yellow through a cascade, it would definitely be worth matching another yellow to get the AP cheapening on your other abilities. It's not crazy good, but its certainly at least average. There is definitely some value in shifting ap from one color to another (i.e., a 10 ap move that generates 7 ap in another color might be worth it, depending on the other color), but there is definitely a tipping point to this kind of arbitrage. I have a hard time thinking that a -2 modifier for starlord's yellow will be worth it most of the time. Assuming it still costs 7 ap, and assuming that you can cast 3 abilities during the countdown period, that's effectively turning 7 yellow ap into 6 ap of other colors. that's not a bad ability. But I don't think it's good enough to be premier (look at some of the other best ap generation skills like mnmags, GSBW, or the old gold standard of pre-nerf cMags). And I expect that waiting until you can actually get 3 abilities off during the countdown will be a better than average scenario. Maybe there is some hidden value to effectively generating ap of any color, rather than one particular one, but I remain somewhat skeptical.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Meh, depends on what you consider "justify the cost" to be: it's obviously no Smite, but a 2 AP reduction on say 3 abilities more than justifies the cost. Remember that not all colors of AP are created equal, so doing something like going Starlord yellow into surge / smite or surgical could be decent. Certainly not game breaking or something to prioritize, but if you incidentally get yellow through a cascade, it would definitely be worth matching another yellow to get the AP cheapening on your other abilities. It's not crazy good, but its certainly at least average.
turul wrote: /no /
Lerysh wrote: Does Oldest Trick In The Book do it's damage when the CD is placed? When it resolves? Increasing CD length on any damage related skill is almost always terribly bad. MNM , for example. If it did it's damage up front it wouldn't matter on CD length I guess.
turul wrote: Everyone with me /no /
Ben Grimm wrote: I look forward to having him be playable sometime in the Fall or Winter. I really wish they'd slow down the 4* releases.
Lerysh wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: Are people seriously trashing him already? First off his red is godly, delaying skills just 1 turn is massive and has no one thought how his yellow will be amazing with 4hor? I have a very strong feeling this guy is going to be top tier, mark my words, this is the new Hood of 4*'s You can't use his "godly" red with Thor. And it isn't going to delay that much considering the costs of powers very rarely fall on the 3/6/9/12 cost range. Adding 1 to a power that costs 10 is useless most times. Also, if you go out of your way to get 7 yellow you've just slowed down Thor by more than he can make up. Vhailorx wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: Meh, depends on what you consider "justify the cost" to be: it's obviously no Smite, but a 2 AP reduction on say 3 abilities more than justifies the cost. Remember that not all colors of AP are created equal, so doing something like going Starlord yellow into surge / smite or surgical could be decent. Certainly not game breaking or something to prioritize, but if you incidentally get yellow through a cascade, it would definitely be worth matching another yellow to get the AP cheapening on your other abilities. It's not crazy good, but its certainly at least average. There is definitely some value in shifting ap from one color to another (i.e., a 10 ap move that generates 7 ap in another color might be worth it, depending on the other color), but there is definitely a tipping point to this kind of arbitrage. I have a hard time thinking that a -2 modifier for starlord's yellow will be worth it most of the time. Assuming it still costs 7 ap, and assuming that you can cast 3 abilities during the countdown period, that's effectively turning 7 yellow ap into 6 ap of other colors. that's not a bad ability. But I don't think it's good enough to be premier (look at some of the other best ap generation skills like mnmags, GSBW, or the old gold standard of pre-nerf cMags). And I expect that waiting until you can actually get 3 abilities off during the countdown will be a better than average scenario. Maybe there is some hidden value to effectively generating ap of any color, rather than one particular one, but I remain somewhat skeptical. Basically this. And the whole idea that at 5 covers yellow will reduce cost by 2 AP is speculation.
NorthernPolarity wrote: ark123 wrote: I mean honestly, this isn't even Elektra level. This is close to IW levels of crappiness That's just low. Purple alone is probably gonna be like 7k at the lowest at level 5 for 10AP, which is miles better than anything that IW can do. Regarding his yellow, I dunno. I'm thinking about what would happen if it reduced everything by two, and would that really be that OP? I think 1 AP would be worthless, and 2 AP would be good, but not completely broken.
ark123 wrote: I mean honestly, this isn't even Elektra level. This is close to IW levels of crappiness
ark123 wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: ark123 wrote: I mean honestly, this isn't even Elektra level. This is close to IW levels of crappiness That's just low. Purple alone is probably gonna be like 7k at the lowest at level 5 for 10AP, which is miles better than anything that IW can do. Regarding his yellow, I dunno. I'm thinking about what would happen if it reduced everything by two, and would that really be that OP? I think 1 AP would be worthless, and 2 AP would be good, but not completely broken. if you think that's the case, you should be firmly in the camp of WR still being one of the best abilities in the game. With a few strike tiles it's 12 green to straight up kill the enemy team, since the 3 turn wait doesn't need to be considered. This is a 4* that's countered by falcon. Think about that for a second.
Phaserhawk wrote: If it's 2AP, which seems likely this is going to be the scenario. Boost red/yellow, boost green/black, boost All plus 3 1st turn. Match yellow 2nd turn. Cast "Everyone with Me" Now 2 options, do you cast Oldest trick in the book now, or wait till after you use your X-Force and hope the yellow tile survives, either way, you just X-Forced someone. Lets say it survives, you then cast Oldest Trick in the Book. match something. Assuming your red tile survives you can probably finish off the person you x-Forced as you are going for Surgical Strike. Im guessin purple will have a trick up it's sleeve at level 5 or so, maybe creates 2 tiles or CD timer goes down to 2, which just makes it a Purple Sunder without the self damage. What I want to know, is can you have more than 1 of those tiles out? Because that would be sweet if you could. Yellow goes to 5, then 1, then 0. I'm guessing probably not, but that would be pretty sweet.
ark123 wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: If it's 2AP, which seems likely this is going to be the scenario. Boost red/yellow, boost green/black, boost All plus 3 1st turn. Match yellow 2nd turn. Cast "Everyone with Me" Now 2 options, do you cast Oldest trick in the book now, or wait till after you use your X-Force and hope the yellow tile survives, either way, you just X-Forced someone. Lets say it survives, you then cast Oldest Trick in the Book. match something. Assuming your red tile survives you can probably finish off the person you x-Forced as you are going for Surgical Strike. Im guessin purple will have a trick up it's sleeve at level 5 or so, maybe creates 2 tiles or CD timer goes down to 2, which just makes it a Purple Sunder without the self damage. What I want to know, is can you have more than 1 of those tiles out? Because that would be sweet if you could. Yellow goes to 5, then 1, then 0. I'm guessing probably not, but that would be pretty sweet. Or you know, boost all and black and actually kill people using xforce on turns 2 and 3. The wording on purple and yellow makes me think you can actually fire off several of those countdowns at the same time, and it doesnt say anything about lowering abilities costs under 1, so there's some potential for abuse in survival nodes I guess. I can't see having to use a 7 cost ability that has no immediate effect on the board or health totals as being something that's ever going to be viable in pvp though.
Phaserhawk wrote: Yeah, that's what I said, boost red/yellow, boost black/green, then boost all so you would start R,Y,G,Black with +6 AP everything else 3. I understand what you are saying, but if you match yellow first and then use it next turn you can now cast X-Force. Then match green, you just saved yourself 2 AP that way, again assuming the tile survives, which you have a 75% chance it does. Everyone gets so caught up in damage, damage, damage they forget to see the bigger picture. Yes the skill is on a CD tile so it has it's weakness, but 7 AP that if survives saves you 2AP on your skills is just absurdly good. Serioulsy 2nd turn X-Force!!! Purple I'm up in the air on, because if it does massive damage, that's a much better way to ensure the death of an opponent rather than slowing them up in red. Where I see him being used is opposite 4hor, because she wants blue and red, but also accelerates yellow, and Star Lord will just allow 4hor to lock the game and win faster than she already does, how is that a bad thing?
Vhailorx wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: Yeah, that's what I said, boost red/yellow, boost black/green, then boost all so you would start R,Y,G,Black with +6 AP everything else 3. I understand what you are saying, but if you match yellow first and then use it next turn you can now cast X-Force. Then match green, you just saved yourself 2 AP that way, again assuming the tile survives, which you have a 75% chance it does. Everyone gets so caught up in damage, damage, damage they forget to see the bigger picture. Yes the skill is on a CD tile so it has it's weakness, but 7 AP that if survives saves you 2AP on your skills is just absurdly good. Serioulsy 2nd turn X-Force!!! Purple I'm up in the air on, because if it does massive damage, that's a much better way to ensure the death of an opponent rather than slowing them up in red. Where I see him being used is opposite 4hor, because she wants blue and red, but also accelerates yellow, and Star Lord will just allow 4hor to lock the game and win faster than she already does, how is that a bad thing? I don't get your point phaserhawk. you seem to be pointing out that boosting ap going into a match is great. That's true! But why should i care that by max boosting ap and then casting starlord's yellow, I can cast xforce on round 2? If I max boost green, and then make one green match, I can already cast xforce on round 2. And I have an entire second character slot to use (with 4* Thor!).