locked wrote: Ew, Psyko. If you are unable to do so yourself... Okay, what are other AP stealers? Hood - extremely good, not 100% fool-proof but neither is oBW. You have to actively watch your enemy AP levels and the board. His steal is passive and is arguably better (as easy to use on offense, fool-proof for the AI on defense). mBW - works the same, is good on levels 1-2. A one-star, so not really comparable for PvP. Yelena - works the same, also deals laughable damage, but non-comparable as Yelena is *THE* worst character in the game and a one-star to boot so it's okay to be miles better than her. Daredevil - non-comparable as he utilizes a different mechanism, traps. Higher risk/reward. Psylocke - non-comparable as she utilizes a different mechanism (a CD tile). Higher risk/reward. If you steal 19+ of green/red, it's probably game over after that. (Ignoring the fact that her steal is on a highly contested colour and thus not very useful so far.) I don't get what your gripe is. Let's demand to nerf Daredevil as his traps are the most powerful in the game, huh? Nerf Patch as his Berserker Rage is the most powerful in the game? oBW is, for all points and purposes, the only usable PvP character with an active steal on an otherwise 'dead' colour. Therefore, your asking for reasons and comparisons looks silly for a lack of a better word. Should we bring oBW more in line with Yelena and mBW? Should we? Well, just name your favourite characters then. Is it lazyThor? Do I even have to state that he's OP like no other character right now? Etc, etc.
Psykopathic wrote: Ok so far we have had more talk about how she's an awesome healer. We have had more talk about how she can be beaten and strategies to fight her. We have had more comments about how I should go away and stop defending my point so you can deliver your opinions freely and without opposition. What no one has done is show some good date about how her pink is balanced compared to other ap stealers and how her pink is not a broken skill. I'm starting to think that no one out there can provide this since it's all I've tried to get through the entire thread and the 1 thing no one will respond too. (Unless you count locked and their rant about how to focus all your attention on 2* OBW right from the beginning and ignore the lazy Thor and BP sitting next to her ready to clobber you.) isn't focusing all your energy on a specific 2* every time while ignoring all other 2/3/4* until OBW is dead such a great strategy that makes so much sense to have to do. Lmao.
MikeHock wrote: Psykopathic wrote: Ok so far we have had more talk about how she's an awesome healer. We have had more talk about how she can be beaten and strategies to fight her. We have had more comments about how I should go away and stop defending my point so you can deliver your opinions freely and without opposition. What no one has done is show some good date about how her pink is balanced compared to other ap stealers and how her pink is not a broken skill. I'm starting to think that no one out there can provide this since it's all I've tried to get through the entire thread and the 1 thing no one will respond too. (Unless you count locked and their rant about how to focus all your attention on 2* OBW right from the beginning and ignore the lazy Thor and BP sitting next to her ready to clobber you.) isn't focusing all your energy on a specific 2* every time while ignoring all other 2/3/4* until OBW is dead such a great strategy that makes so much sense to have to do. Lmao. D3 and the rest of us don't have to explain why a specific skill is or is not overpowered or "balanced". The game itself isn't balanced and certain players have overpowered and underpowered skills. Oh well! It's not as if you're skipping all teams with OBW, right? Personal note: I'm sick of seeing Level 85 OBW and Level 141 Punisher in every PvP. Does that mean I want her nerfed; no; I honestly don't care if she's nerfed or not..... and I'm also not going to pretend that my opinion should be the standard for all.
Carthl wrote: While I'm as tired as the next player of constantly fighting featured+obw+various tanks, she's the only character that makes the game even playable at the 2* level. If not for her, I'd play 2-3 matches and then be out for at least 3 hours. With the points required to reach any relevant placement (i.e. HP reward rank), never mind worthwhile placement (i.e. 3* reward rank), without an OBW, 2* players would be entirely locked out of PvP. Is her steal pretty damn powerful? Yes it is, especially if we consider that her passive black steals as well, although conditionally. But do we trust them to nerf *only* her steal? I don't. If she is nerfed, it'll be healing + steal and she'll end up another Yelena or Bag Man, making the game basically untenable at the 2* level. What we need is not an OBW nerf, it's a few more new 2* characters with comparably useful abilities, for more variety. Because the way the game is now, the transition from 2* to 3* has been significantly slowed down, down to potentially locking players into a 2* level for many months if not forever for the more casual players. It makes perfect sense to throw us players who're stuck in 2* land a bone once in a while. And if the high tier players don't want to bother with a PvE that gives out at new 2* as reward? Even better - we get more chances to win one, you'll get an opportunity to sit out an event and lower your scaling. Win-win for everyone.
bonfire01 wrote: If every other hero wasn't some variety of doing damage, possibly with a weird mechanic which the AI entirely can't handle then there wouldn't be so much OBW around. If you want to see her less argue for a new 2* (and ideally 3*) control/AP gen/AP steal type hero +/- heal. On the other hand we could ensure defensive wins are EVEN less likely than they are now by nerfing anything the ai can't screw up completely.
sup123 wrote: bonfire01 wrote: If every other hero wasn't some variety of doing damage, possibly with a weird mechanic which the AI entirely can't handle then there wouldn't be so much OBW around. If you want to see her less argue for a new 2* (and ideally 3*) control/AP gen/AP steal type hero +/- heal. On the other hand we could ensure defensive wins are EVEN less likely than they are now by nerfing anything the ai can't screw up completely. I'm seeing people saying more 2* would make it harder for transitioning players by diluting the hero pool, but with the new random covers as rewards I really see no reason for at least another 2* that can fill OBW's role a bit. Hell, even release a 3* version along with it, like a 2* Jean Grey/ 3* Phoenix or something.
Psykopathic wrote: Ok so 1st when you talked about OBW you used her lvl 3/5 recon as an example. This implies that she is better at 3/5 instead of 5/5 which is 1 reason why I stated the move was broken, or else you would have used 5/5 as the example.
Psykopathic wrote: If OBW steals from you not only does she tinykitty down your moves and power your enemies, not gradually like the hood, but all at once. You can't dwindle her down with match damage. She heals herself after. So now you can't get a single move off, especially when using a 3* team that costs mostly 10+ ap per move anyways. You are a sitting duck with 0 ap while your opponent has potentially dozens and full health. I've never once seen hood create this scenario. After that you are stuck in the trap because she continually steals and heals every other turn after that basically.
Psykopathic wrote: You have said "no one uses the spidey OBW combo. I will give you that more recently less people are using it with the release of tanky characters such as lt and bp. A couple months back it was very abundant combo. Taking OBW/patch/spidey or OBW/patch/hood can be very brutal teams to face. Punisher can also sub in for patch in these 2 combos. Just because you don't use the combo doesn't mean it isn't a great combo and often used by others.
locked wrote: People losing to oBW on offense, sheesh. Next time I lose to Patch on offense, should I demand his nerf? (Not that that ever happens, though - but I'm like most players and most players do NOT usually lose on offense.)
Psykopathic wrote: Carthl wrote: While I'm as tired as the next player of constantly fighting featured+obw+various tanks, she's the only character that makes the game even playable at the 2* level. If not for her, I'd play 2-3 matches and then be out for at least 3 hours. With the points required to reach any relevant placement (i.e. HP reward rank), never mind worthwhile placement (i.e. 3* reward rank), without an OBW, 2* players would be entirely locked out of PvP. Is her steal pretty damn powerful? Yes it is, especially if we consider that her passive black steals as well, although conditionally. But do we trust them to nerf *only* her steal? I don't. If she is nerfed, it'll be healing + steal and she'll end up another Yelena or Bag Man, making the game basically untenable at the 2* level. What we need is not an OBW nerf, it's a few more new 2* characters with comparably useful abilities, for more variety. Because the way the game is now, the transition from 2* to 3* has been significantly slowed down, down to potentially locking players into a 2* level for many months if not forever for the more casual players. It makes perfect sense to throw us players who're stuck in 2* land a bone once in a while. And if the high tier players don't want to bother with a PvE that gives out at new 2* as reward? Even better - we get more chances to win one, you'll get an opportunity to sit out an event and lower your scaling. Win-win for everyone. A fair point that has been made many times and has been for the most part agreed with. There needs to be more 2 & 3* with similar abilities as to OBW and spidey. However, myself and others have also stated here that we did just fine getting through the 2-3* transition phase without use of OBW. It's plenty possible she just makes it way easier. And once again no one is saying to destroy her. Just that her pink is broken in multiple ways. No one is looking at the mechanics and logic behind everything. You are all just basing on opinions and that you don't want your shiny toys taken away. I use spidey and patch in nearly every team. Spidey is about to get hammered. You don't see me in his thread whining about that. He was broke and he needed fix. OBW is broke and she needs fixed. I put a simple solution that would by now and cripple her a page or 2 back. I'm sure there's many others that would do so as well. No one wants to think about how she could still be a fun character with a well-working pink ability. You see nerf/balance and take it as a negative and get hostile. I'm in the forums for productive conversation. If you don't wanna join the topic and be productive. If you only wanna join to complain or tell others to shut up, then why join? I mean, it's a thread about OBW being way too abundant in pvp. There's only gonna be 2 groups responding to that. People that think there needs to be more to fill the role. People that think she is OP. I happen to be both.
DD-The-Mighty wrote: The landscape in which you were in the 2* ghetto was very different than the one players currently are in. Heck even 4 months ago it was drastically different. Even with the minor spike in random 2*s from pvp wins leveling a specific 2* is a nightmare now. A lot more grinding and waiting around from some random pull. If things were the same as before; fine. but the "i got over it, so should you." dismissal is weak now.