Rorex wrote: Did some statisical analysis of 2*Daken and I would say at max lvl 3* Daken should be getting two 88 strength strike tiles per green match. Not 100% because I don't have a base level, 1 cover Daken to use in the analysis. So if someone does please post the strike tile strength and I will re-evaluate. Numbers seem reasonable in comparision to Patch. 3 green matches to use Patch and creates 6 tiles with 148 strength for allies and opponents (888). 3 matches with Daken will get six 88 strength tiles (528). So less damage but no strike tiles for the opponent. Hopefully the blue is something good.
Phantron wrote: Daken 2* currently generates 2 104 strike tiles at level 195. Scale this to level 141 you get 2X75 strike tiles. And people are thinking he should generate 2X86 strike tiles at 141 as a 3*? Keep in mind that 2* always outstripped 3* in offensive abilities in comparable cases.
NorthernPolarity wrote: That being said, if he does get released with strike tiles that do 50+ damage, then he's going to be ubiquitous in all team compositions from now on, and thats a pretty clear sign of the character being OP.
Rorex wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: That being said, if he does get released with strike tiles that do 50+ damage, then he's going to be ubiquitous in all team compositions from now on, and thats a pretty clear sign of the character being OP. Name a single Gold Character that isn't overpowered and used in almost all teams! Right now you like 80% likely to see Lazy Cap or Lazy Thor.
Phantron wrote: Lazy Cap and lazy Thor does damage far beyond any comparable 3* as well. They're not fair comparison because even if you say these guys are P2W guys intended at generate revenues, I don't see why you'd start assuming Daken is the same way. He might end up as a P2W character, but I'd hope not for the good of the game. Even 2X50 strike tiles would be a top tier passive. At 3 green matches that's basically same as Judgment, except you don't have to be the one making the green matches. The biggest upside of Phoermone Rage is that you get the benefit regardless of who makes the green match. Even an obviously overpowered ability like Call the Storm gains no benefit if the opponent makes the green match instead of you. Just from playing against Daken it should be obvious that Daken is quite capable of killing people by simply matching tiles. If you get 5 hits out of each Phermone Rage for 2X50 strike tiles, then you can say Phermone Rage is equivalent as 'Whenever anyone makes a green match, they take 500 damage'. Note that if that only applied to you, it'd still be pretty good passive (it'd be 9g for 1500 damage, which isn't great for green but serviceable), but it works when the other side makes the match too!
NorthernPolarity wrote: Rorex wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: That being said, if he does get released with strike tiles that do 50+ damage, then he's going to be ubiquitous in all team compositions from now on, and thats a pretty clear sign of the character being OP. Name a single Gold Character that isn't overpowered and used in almost all teams! Right now you like 80% likely to see Lazy Cap or Lazy Thor. For the 2 Lazy characters currently released, LazyThor is clearly OP, but I think that LazyCap is at a pretty good power level right now (similar to Psylocke). The only reason why you would see lazycap right now in more team comps is because newer players were able to get him to max covers from the recent events fairly easily, and because of how he's a popular character, not because of him being clearly better than most of the other characters in the game. If you think about 3* team compositions, I think that Cap fits in far fewer ones than a LazyThor would. I'd be happy if Daken was more along the lines of LazyCap's power level, but its look like he's going to be closer to LazyThor instead.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Another benefit to pheromone rage is that it doesn't actually use the green ap that you get. If you have another green AP user, the ability is essentially free, which is even crazier. I'm not sure what a balanced version of 3* Daken would even look like: 2* Daken gives 2 x 25 strike tiles, so you can't make it only 2 x 40 or something like that since people would complain that it doesn't scale enough. It seems like an ability like this is just very hard to balance in general: maybe if blue is a weak ability and it did 2 x 45 strike tiles or something along those lines, but that's clearly not what we're going to see from the devs.
Phantron wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: Rorex wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: That being said, if he does get released with strike tiles that do 50+ damage, then he's going to be ubiquitous in all team compositions from now on, and thats a pretty clear sign of the character being OP. Name a single Gold Character that isn't overpowered and used in almost all teams! Right now you like 80% likely to see Lazy Cap or Lazy Thor. For the 2 Lazy characters currently released, LazyThor is clearly OP, but I think that LazyCap is at a pretty good power level right now (similar to Psylocke). The only reason why you would see lazycap right now in more team comps is because newer players were able to get him to max covers from the recent events fairly easily, and because of how he's a popular character, not because of him being clearly better than most of the other characters in the game. If you think about 3* team compositions, I think that Cap fits in far fewer ones than a LazyThor would. I'd be happy if Daken was more along the lines of LazyCap's power level, but its look like he's going to be closer to LazyThor instead. Lazy Cap is balanced in the way Magneto is balanced. Due to limitation of AI, Magneto is also fairly humble on defense, but that doesn't mean Magneto is a balanced character overall. 75% of the game involves offense (50% in PvP, 100% in PvE) so it's still a pretty big deal, though PvE victims don't get to complaint about your team being too cheap, so its overall impact is probably less from the player's point of view. At any rate since Daken's power seems mostly based on passives (and if his blue is actually powerful that'd just make him all the more powerful) it should be impossible to use him incorrectly, so he'd fall into the same category as lazy Thor. I think lazy Thor is actually weaker than lazy Cap, but there's no way to play lazy Thor incorrectly for the AI, while lazy Cap can be played hilariously poorly by the AI.
NorthernPolarity wrote: I don't agree: after playing with a boosted 120 LazyCap in the last PvP, he just feels really slow compared to even some of the more balanced, faster characters out there like Punisher and Psylocke. Something I've been noticing (thanks to mischiefmakers comment) is that it takes significantly more turns to get 12AP than it does to get 6 or 9AP: it doesn't scale linearly but rather more like lands in MTG, where 6 mana is a lot more than 5 mana, and 7 mana is a lot lot more than 6. This means that even though Cap's red theoretically has a lot more damage output, what happens in practice is that by the time you can recur cap's red, a character like psylocke would have already dealt maybe 2-3x that amount of damage with 2 casts of her red. The games just seem to end before I'm able to get 2+ casts of Cap's red. I also didn't realize that cap's blue only makes the defense tile after the countdown finishes, which makes the skill a lot worse than I thought, since by the time you get 12 blue AP and wait 3 turns, the match is probably almost over as well. Cap obviously does well in matches that last a very long time, but when you have C. Mags Patch or even BP or Psylocke/Punisher to close games out very quickly, that just isn't a common occurence.
Phantron wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: I don't agree: after playing with a boosted 120 LazyCap in the last PvP, he just feels really slow compared to even some of the more balanced, faster characters out there like Punisher and Psylocke. Something I've been noticing (thanks to mischiefmakers comment) is that it takes significantly more turns to get 12AP than it does to get 6 or 9AP: it doesn't scale linearly but rather more like lands in MTG, where 6 mana is a lot more than 5 mana, and 7 mana is a lot lot more than 6. This means that even though Cap's red theoretically has a lot more damage output, what happens in practice is that by the time you can recur cap's red, a character like psylocke would have already dealt maybe 2-3x that amount of damage with 2 casts of her red. The games just seem to end before I'm able to get 2+ casts of Cap's red. I also didn't realize that cap's blue only makes the defense tile after the countdown finishes, which makes the skill a lot worse than I thought, since by the time you get 12 blue AP and wait 3 turns, the match is probably almost over as well. Cap obviously does well in matches that last a very long time, but when you have C. Mags Patch or even BP or Psylocke/Punisher to close games out very quickly, that just isn't a common occurence. While your 4th and 5th match of a given color generally takes a considerably longer than linear time compared to the first 3, it's still a matter of AP. If a game ended before you hit 12 red AP, then you can only do one Retribution or one Psychic Knife. So if the game ended before that, then red clearly played no real impact, so yes having a faster red helps some but it's not a significant factor. HIs blue is weak in the sense that both Spiderman and Magneto can put away any game with 12 blue AP so of course there's no real reason to setup the Peacemakers when either of those two guys are pretty much guaranteed win with the same number of blue AP. But I'd say that's more because Spiderman/Magneto are too good, not because his blue is too weak. Blue has a rather high bar to be compared, as it's basically 10 blue AP = wins the game right now. There are probably enough cheap ways to win the game right now that Captain isn't the biggest problem, but you shouldn't say 'well X is broken and Y isn't as broken as X, so Y is okay.' In the long run neither X nor Y should be broken. Even Magneto isn't as broken as Spiderman, who single handedly caused several player hated mechanisms to be invented in PvE, but Magneto is still pretty broken overall. In a balanced world, neither character should be as powerful as they are. Currently we can live with Magneto being overpowered as long as Spiderman is around (because he's even worse), but that should not be the model of balance.
allorin wrote: IM40. He's a great battery for Shieldbro's Red / Blue. If you're lucky, you match Red at the same time. Even Hulk doesn't last long of you can fire two Shieldbro Reds in quick succession.
Phantron wrote: Daken 2* currently generates 2 104 strike tiles at level 195. Scale this to level 141 you get 2X75 strike tiles.
Phantron wrote: The Punisher and Black Panther are probably the strongest a character can be and have a game to be considered technically balanced. Although The Punisher's abilities are probably too good overall, they're not so powerful that there is literally nothing you can do about it, and if you assume someone's got to be the strongest character in any game, then The Punisher is at least a choice I can tolerate for most powerful. Black Panther is similar in the sense that one of his skill is way overpowered (Rage of the Panther) but his other two skils are medicore enough that you can accept him as a pinnacle of power in a technically balanced game. I think people just doesn't think Captain is overpowered because there are quite a few guys who are above The Punisher level, and if you compare one broken character to another it's hard to say who is more broken than others, and certainly there is at least two guys more broken than Captain (Magneto and Spiderman), and lazy Thor probably too.
IceIX wrote: gobstopper wrote: Would be more suitable as 2*, just like Daredevil With his current ability balance, he's like Black Widow (Original) in that he can find a place on just about any team. In test, I'm currently dreading seeing any Daken or Wolverine/Falcon teams. I wouldn't want Falcon to be a tank with what he can currently do. Ow.
gobstopper wrote: Would be more suitable as 2*, just like Daredevil