*** Sentry (Dark Avengers) ***

Unknown

I'm respeccing him to 5/5/3. Nova is still amazing on defense.

hurcules

Or keep him for PvE. Another warm body to throw at L300+ nodes without using health packs.

Phaserhawk

vudu3 wrote:

Should we clear the poll results and start fresh? Or is 3/5/5 still considered the best build by pretty much everyone?

In PvP 3/5/5 is still the best build, with a catch, you must run him with a 3/5/5 Hood. I have played Sentry alot since the redo by himself and he does not work very well. The combination of 12AP and 3CD for World Rupture really killed him byhimself, they should have done one or the other and IMO having it cost 14AP and still a 2CD timer would have made him still more viable than his current form. However, when paired with Hood, he is still passable, but with 4* Thor on the rise he can't dent hit points like before so even running the nerfed version of Sentry/Hood won't be strong enough anymore for instant death, you may need to make a few matches. And I would rather run BP over Sentry if I'm going up against anything else, as Rage of the Panther is less detrimental than Nova and they do almost the same amount of damage.

The speed at which I can kill is at minimum 3 turns longer than before assuming a favorable board to sometimes almost never. What I have noticed is that you can generally Sentry bomb still relatively quickly, but if they are running a Hood you can't, because of the longer time it takes to get World Rupture and opposing Hood really messes up your game.

In the end I think 5/5/3, 3/5/5 and 5/3/5 are all equally viable. However of those three only the 3/5/5 requires the Hood at 3/5/5 the others don't care.

vudu3

That was a very long way of saying we need a new poll.

Pwuz_

vudu3 wrote:

That was a very long way of saying we need a new poll.

I think in a nut shell he's saying that it doesn't matter at this point as they have balanced his skills to the point that any build that includes 2 skills at 5 covers is preferred. Each of his skills have some significant advantages to building from 4 to 5.

On a side note: What if they only changed the countdown to 3 for level 4? If level 1-3 still offered 2 turn countdown tiles, but the damage boost of levels 4 & 5 came with the extra countdown turn, would this seem as awful? Think about it this way, how many other countdown based abilities increase their timer as they grow in power?

Unknown

MNM Blue is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. The reason his stays at 3 is the CD timer increase. If Sentry increased from 2 to 3 at 4 covers, 5/3/5 would become the standard overnight, because the damage from WR is like 30% CD 70% Strike tile as it stands right now anyway.

Kolence

Pwuz_ wrote:

On a side note: What if they only changed the countdown to 3 for level 4? If level 1-3 still offered 2 turn countdown tiles, but the damage boost of levels 4 & 5 came with the extra countdown turn, would this seem as awful? Think about it this way, how many other countdown based abilities increase their timer as they grow in power?

Lerysh wrote:

MNM Blue is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. The reason his stays at 3 is the CD timer increase. If Sentry increased from 2 to 3 at 4 covers, 5/3/5 would become the standard overnight, because the damage from WR is like 30% CD 70% Strike tile as it stands right now anyway.

Going from 3 to 5 in you also get 8 CDs more, right? It's possible that one turn more the CDs are out could result with more than 8 being destroyed but only with a cascade or two. On the other hand, if you have enough strike tiles to KO the whole team with half the CDs then level 3 is enough and 1 turn quicker.

Unknown

With the nerf to yellow and green costing more has anyone tried 553 and relying on Daken or someone else for strike tiles? Or is 5 in yellow still a must have?

MarcusGraves

gamar wrote:

Has anyone tried 553 and relying on Daken or someone else for strike tiles? Viable or significantly worse than 355?

5/5/3 is probably more consistent because going 5 in supernova means you want a back up nuke in case WR+sac goes wrong.

5/5/3: more consistent with 2nd nuke, less overall damage

3/5/5: less consistent because of reliance on WR + sacrifice combo but yields higher damage than 5/5/3

neither build is really wrong, depends how you want to play him. I'd personally do 5/5/3 because WR is really slow to me now and I'd like to have supernova fully powered in case of emergencies.

Unknown

I'm actually using him at 5/5/3 with a 3/5/5 blade. Strike tiles make WR good, the AP steal make his abilities easier to use, blade heals quick outside of battle, and you get a nice rainbow of actives. "But won't supernova kill the red strike tiles?"

No. Supernova will end the battle.

MarcusGraves

blade+sentry sounds so fun, i wish I had a maxed out 3/5/5 blade

Unknown

MarcusGraves wrote:

gamar wrote:

Has anyone tried 553 and relying on Daken or someone else for strike tiles? Viable or significantly worse than 355?

5/5/3 is probably more consistent because going 5 in supernova means you want a back up nuke in case WR+sac goes wrong.

5/5/3: more consistent with 2nd nuke, less overall damage

3/5/5: less consistent because of reliance on WR + sacrifice combo but yields higher damage than 5/5/3

neither build is really wrong, depends how you want to play him. I'd personally do 5/5/3 because WR is really slow to me now and I'd like to have supernova fully powered in case of emergencies.

I just keep thinking that with Sacrifice+WR being so much less effective at ending a battle on its own, maybe WR+Supernova will be a better "burn it all and damn the health packs" combo

But then I think "8 AP for 570 strike tile is still certainly A Thing though" and second guess myself

Phaserhawk

gamar wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

gamar wrote:

Has anyone tried 553 and relying on Daken or someone else for strike tiles? Viable or significantly worse than 355?

5/5/3 is probably more consistent because going 5 in supernova means you want a back up nuke in case WR+sac goes wrong.

5/5/3: more consistent with 2nd nuke, less overall damage

3/5/5: less consistent because of reliance on WR + sacrifice combo but yields higher damage than 5/5/3

neither build is really wrong, depends how you want to play him. I'd personally do 5/5/3 because WR is really slow to me now and I'd like to have supernova fully powered in case of emergencies.

I just keep thinking that with Sacrifice+WR being so much less effective at ending a battle on its own, maybe WR+Supernova will be a better "burn it all and damn the health packs" combo

But then I think "8 AP for 570 strike tile is still certainly A Thing though" and second guess myself

That's why you run him with black panther and it won't matter

Phaserhawk

crunching and recrunching numbers, 3/5/5 will still do more damage overall, basically if you can keep 8 tiles out plus the sacrifice tile you will do about 6025 dmg which is about 1600 more than what 5/5/3 would do. If you have less than 8 CD tiles, well then you are going to start to see more damage being done by Supernova which does 1400 more than 3/5/5. I will probably have Sentry run exclusively with Black Panther. I can get almost the same strength as a level 5 sacrfice but without the damage to Sentry, even more if I can get the TU part to activate, add to that I have about 12K worth of AoE dmg and board destruction, I think these two can tear it up

whitecat31

Sentry is now Tiny Puppy..

Not just tiny Kitty...but Tiny Puppy.

I am not saying a Nerf to Sentry was not needed. I think it was overreaching.
Sentry used to be one of the best, but the changing of Sentry was clearly done with buying boosts in mind.
That is the problem though. Other character are not built with buying boosts in mind.
His most powerful ability used to be World Rupture.
The cost went from 7 to 12. This is an increase of two extra turns to attain, with the assumption you can get the green match.
In reality, you are going to maybe take much longer to get those green matches.
The tiles went from a 2 turn countdown to a 3 turn countdown. This makes them more vulnerable, and easily destroyed.
Defensively, his world rupture is rarely going to go off as well. Almost everybody collects greens for something useful.
So when I have played against a Sentry and I toy around, I can sometimes see a World Rupture very late in the match.
I have yet to see it trigger to fruition. Basically, it is useless.

His other skills suck health like crazy and make him a health pack eater and boost eater to be sustainable.

Sure Supernova can do some damage, but it is a red and again like green above almost everybody collects red for something useful.
The supernova damage was also reduced. I have seen it go off on occasion.
His sacrifice tile, does less damage and cost more health. A person would have to time it very well, to use right before the world rupture, and by then Sentry is usually dead.


The feedback is in the future, please don't nerf characters, based on boosts or boosting, because you don't design characters with boosts in mind.
Also please don't determine how well you do your nerfing by people who sell their characters. It is unfair to the collectors, and there is the backfire effect.
Let's say everybody sold their Sentry's making the statement. Ok Sentry stinks. What then? Do you retool Sentry again? Suddenly, everybody who sold their Sentry's are pissed off.
This type of feedback has created a backfire.

Most of the Sentry abusers are moving on to Xforce and/or Disney Princess Thor for obvious reasons.
So how exactly will you determine feedback based on use of a characters abilities? At what point do you say, oops?

Unknown

i am VERY new to this game, just started it 59 days ago

as a fan of his comics i am kinda sad to see him being "nerfed" ( i use "" because i never played with him when i was considered strong)
BUT: is there a chance, that d3, like other devs, re-evaluate their decisions and balance him again in the near future?

i read, that 12ap AND 3CD were too much, either one of them would see reasonable...is there a CHANCE, that they think about balancing him again so shortly after the patch?

Unknown

Not likely no, although with the change to shields coming I wouldn't entirely rule it OUT, he was still way way too powerful. His actual damage output did not significantly change, just the speed at which you can rainbow AP boost your way though matches changed. This coupled with the relative speed and power of X-Force has caused people to switch gears in the high end PvP. It's not all about Sentry now, but he's still viable in my opinion. If you like him and his play style use him. He's still 10200 HP of explodey goodness on defense too.

Phaserhawk

curlymustache wrote:

i am VERY new to this game, just started it 59 days ago

as a fan of his comics i am kinda sad to see him being "nerfed" ( i use "" because i never played with him when i was considered strong)
BUT: is there a chance, that d3, like other devs, re-evaluate their decisions and balance him again in the near future?

i read, that 12ap AND 3CD were too much, either one of them would see reasonable...is there a CHANCE, that they think about balancing him again so shortly after the patch?

I'm respecing mine from 3/5/5 to 5/5/3, I have him 4/5/4 at the moment and hoping to get the red cover in this PvP, anyway, while the nerf killed his speed he is still extremely poweful and capable of taking down an entire team by himself, the real problem with him now is that he takes too much self damage and deals too much damage to his team for him to be a reliable source anymore. Because his speed is reduced he's not really worth running in PvP, (although still possible) and in PvE he can decimate goons and even tough nodes but then he's done, you either health pack him or let him recharge.

What Sentry needs....

1.) Accelerated Healing, he's one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe and superpowered, he should heal faster, this would also counteract his self damage somewhat.

2.) Friendly Team damage on Supernova needs to be reduced more. The move already ends the turn as one of it's drawbacks, having such massive team damage is now a little excessive considering the other nerfs he suffered. Look at Black Panther, he does almost the same amount of damage to the other team for 1 more AP and he gives up AP to them but at least he doesn't end the turn or hurt his own team, given, giving the other team AP may cause you damage on the return, but it's probably going to be single target.

If D3 kicks up his healing and decreases team damage by say 15% then I think Sentry will become more playable. World Rupture is still awesome, just not reliable, basically if you use the skill, just play as normal and make sure to have some strike tiles ready for when it's going to resolve, the AP you generally get from the cascades is well worth the wait, Ive been averaging about 1.5K worth of AoE to the other team on this when paired either with Black Panther, or Daken and not using Sacrifice. I have been having fun with Daken, Black Panther and Sentry. I get World Rupture to go off as soon as possible which using Battleplan or Daken's tiles, the AP genterated plus my collection up to that point 9/10 times has enough AP to use both Rage of the Panther and Supernova, 3 moves of 10K plus AoE is more than enough to take anyone down, and if someone may survive Supernova, Daken can Chemical Reaction them before it's use. The lineup is powerful and deadly but does eat up the health packs.

GrumpySmurf1002

Is 5/3/5 a viable build now?

I've always had him at 5/5/3 but literally never use him now except as a meat shield in Shield Sim. Presuming I can get the two yellows out of this, I'm curious if it's worth the respec.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Is 5/3/5 a viable build now?

I've always had him at 5/5/3 but literally never use him now except as a meat shield in Shield Sim. Presuming I can get the two yellows out of this, I'm curious if it's worth the respec.

Yes, pretty much anything with 2 skills maxed and 1 at 3 is viable, even 4/5/4 is viable however, what is more efficient?

The issue you have with 5/3/5 is that you are completely throwing out the skill because at level 3 it does not generate very many CD tiles and having built Sentry slowly I remember how bad World Rupture was at level 3 and this was pre-nerf, however this build is the best pairing with X-Force.

I kicked around 3/5/5, 5/5/3, 5/3/5, and 4/5/4 as I felt these were the strongest post nerf builds. Now I opted away from 3/5/5 becuase that build is so Hood dependent that you have to keep your Hood 3/5/5 to get it to work, essentially maintain the Sentry/Hood bomb combo. While this is fine, since Hood's nerf/buff of his yellow and the decimation of World Rupture as the turbo kill I just couldn't justify keeping Hood 3/5/5 for only using Sentry and I'm not going to spend time and ISO to create a 2nd Hood although if you choose to do so that might be the best option. So now that I wasn't going to keep Hood 3/5/5 for a nerfed combo and playing with 3/5/5 Sentry I found myself relying on and really liking Supernova. While this does end turn it most of the time ends the game, and also seeing that World Rupture is still really powerful I knew I had to keep that at 5, so that left me with 5/5/3 or 4/5/4 and running theoretical's, 5/5/3 does more damage and your team takes less damage thus 5/5/3 for me.

Of all the builds 3/5/5 still does the most damage if you reslove World Rupture with Sacrfice. Sacrifce is still the best single strike tile in the game, however it all stood that you had at least 8 World Rupture tiles out because when you start to drop below that, then 5/5/3 does more overall dmg and either way 5/5/3 has you take the least amount of team and Sentry damage, thus my other reason for leaning that way. Finally, having a maxed Supernova is a good counter to 4hor as you can destroy almost all of the red tiles with it.

Here were my findings
=====================
3/5/5--most damage and still plays similar even post nerf but all but 100% reliant on 3/5/5 Hood
5/3/5--not the best Sentry damage build but best build with X-Force and compiments X-Force, doesn't need Hood, World Rupture is very bad and non-existent needs another Green user, (easily best PvP build assuming X-Force as other partner)
5/5/3--least self damage build, 2nd most damage build, not as dependent upon World Rupture, more dependent on other sources of strike tile generators, doesnt need Hood
4/5/4--Better Sac tile, worse Supernova, does less damage than 5/5/3, so this is viable but not strongest build
5/4/4 and 4/4/5 just don't make sense as upgrades from 3 to 4 weren't worth it, 4/5/4 is only viable hybrid build.