Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

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Comments

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,286 Chairperson of the Boards

    @SuperCarrot said:
    Something that hasn’t been brought up much…but what are the chances that this will have a negative effect on new players? They get HP think they are making a good choice making a swap instead of saving for a roster slot, now they are even further behind without knowing.

    Given you can only do swaps after you max champ a character, how likely are new players to accidentally do this? Certainly new players won't have 550s. So that leaves the lesser tiers. But at 1/2/3/4 star tiers you have ascension which is universally regarded as a good thing. So there is no need to swap to another character at those tiers because you want to build duplicates for ascension.

    KGB

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,286 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 15 December 2024, 21:32

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Even if I can understand why they want to stop the latest train I don't think there should be anything but a nominal 1hp fee to transfer a latest pull to a classic. The HP cost I could accept if it was to be transferred to another latest but why does there need to be a fee for classics. No CS involvement is required and people can back fill characters they have had to skip due to hoarding for a system that's been removed.

    It should be obvious. If you could swap a latest to a classic for 1 hp, then all swaps for all tokens/vaults have to be that price. Otherwise it makes latest tokens vastly more valuable. For example if you open a classic token and pull an Okoye and you have her at 550, if it cost 1250 to swap that Okoye pull to another character (say MThor) it makes classics WAY worse that latest where you could swap an Agatha for an MThor for 1 hp.

    The other thing to consider is that these swaps are effectively creating a colorless cover. Most of us have all the classics champed so if you swap you don't really care about the cover, it's just a champ level. But for many players that swap will let them fully cover their classics because they'll be able to swap for a specific needed cover (say you need an Okoye Yellow to be able to champ her you can swap for an Okoye Yellow). Such a colorless cover has traditionally cost a LOT more than just a regular cover.

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,998 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @Tony_Foot said:
    Even if I can understand why they want to stop the latest train I don't think there should be anything but a nominal 1hp fee to transfer a latest pull to a classic. The HP cost I could accept if it was to be transferred to another latest but why does there need to be a fee for classics. No CS involvement is required and people can back fill characters they have had to skip due to hoarding for a system that's been removed.

    It should be obvious. If you could swap a latest to a classic for 1 hp, then all swaps for all tokens/vaults have to be that price. Otherwise it makes latest tokens vastly more valuable. For example if you open a classic token and pull an Okoye and you have her at 550, if it cost 1250 to swap that Okoye pull to another character (say MThor) it makes classics WAY worse that latest where you could swap an Agatha for an MThor for 1 hp.

    The other thing to consider is that these swaps are effectively creating a colorless cover. Most of us have all the classics champed so if you swap you don't really care about the cover, it's just a champ level. But for many players that swap will let them fully cover their classics because they'll be able to swap for a specific needed cover (say you need an Okoye Yellow to be able to champ her you can swap for an Okoye Yellow). Such a colorless cover has traditionally cost a LOT more than just a regular cover.

    KGB

    I think we disagree about stuff a bunch, but I appreciate that you're coming at this change with some unique perspective, probably because of your unique roster construction. You've made some really good points about how useful the whole thing will be for the bottom 99.99% of rosters.

    It's worth noting that removing the CS swap thing is probably the least significant part of this for a large majority of players -- they were never going to be able to use it anyway.

  • TheXMan
    TheXMan Posts: 188 Tile Toppler

    I doubt the bottom 99.99% has lots of extra HP to use. I guess the question is will they buy more or just not use the feature.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,998 Chairperson of the Boards

    @TheXMan said:
    I doubt the bottom 99.99% has lots of extra HP to use. I guess the question is will they buy more or just not use the feature.

    Cover swaps for 3* and 4* are significantly less expensive, and these folks aren't going to be swapping 100 covers at a time.

  • SAking
    SAking Posts: 4 Just Dropped In

    Just make this feature ANY cover for ANY cover WITHOUT not needing a max character, i would 100% pay for exchanges in that case and they would absolutely make money with that.

  • SuperCarrot
    SuperCarrot Posts: 206 Tile Toppler

    Because they:

    • took something that was once a way to remove excess waste for those able to climb a very huge mountain (550ing 3 specific characters) and removed it from the game all together.
    • gave us a new system as a replacement for that thing, but not really, because it doesn’t do the thing the old system did (swap LL for other LL).
    • made the new “replacement” thing such an inefficient use of resources that many are saying they won’t use it at all.
    • and did all this while so many other things in the game go unaddressed…
    • …during the holidays!

    1 star on Yelp.

    Well said. Less is less. Losing an available option rarely is/feels good. We have until, I believe the 16th to hope they change something on the front end. Which…yeah that is real soon.

  • turbomoose
    turbomoose Posts: 809 Critical Contributor

    Is this going live today ?? I have a 4* I need to exchange, probably the only time I’ll use it but RNG isn’t giving me the one cover I need for this character so that I can ascend him

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,346 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    We will see if they actually nerf all of the top characters in the game that they oversold, people explicitly chased, that improved players’ clear times and quality of life. If so, I’m sure that will go over really well.

    Also, I appreciate posting the actual quote but I think it’s important to add the very next two Ice posted for context:

    "The sky is falling!" "Oh, it was just a test. Never mind."

    “Never ever ever take data mined content as real”.

    (Those feel kind of important lol).

    All very true

    Anyway, @Scofie would it be possible to take this discussion to any of the other nerf-X threads or start a new one? As per usual a troll post that has nothing to do with the topic derails the thread. I’m hoping devs are wanting to collect actual feedback on the new cover exchange system and splitting this topic could be helpful for them.

    This is pretty funny considering you and Entrail in the Q&A thread, lol!

    @Scofie - you don't have to cut and paste that stuff here though!!!

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    We will see if they actually nerf all of the top characters in the game that they oversold, people explicitly chased, that improved players’ clear times and quality of life. If so, I’m sure that will go over really well.

    Also, I appreciate posting the actual quote but I think it’s important to add the very next two Ice posted for context:

    "The sky is falling!" "Oh, it was just a test. Never mind."

    “Never ever ever take data mined content as real”.

    (Those feel kind of important lol).

    All very true

    Anyway, @Scofie would it be possible to take this discussion to any of the other nerf-X threads or start a new one? As per usual a troll post that has nothing to do with the topic derails the thread. I’m hoping devs are wanting to collect actual feedback on the new cover exchange system and splitting this topic could be helpful for them.

    This is pretty funny considering you and Entrail in the Q&A thread, lol!

    @Scofie - you don't have to cut and paste that stuff here though!!!

    Fair! I actually realized I posted in the wrong thread after the back and forth started. I promise that wasn't intentional.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,852 Chairperson of the Boards

    My thoughts on the costs and system (gonna ignore nerf discussion).

    1. The costs probably line up closely with the average cost of a roster slot for a player that is at that level. So it seems like the idea was to make it a difficult/meaningful choice to swap away that cover you pulled vs rostering a dupe. BUT just rostering every character - without even ascending or duping - is 359 slots, and come on here. Ascension creates a huge argument for double-rostering as well and this isn't the right approach. Players already feel lots of slot pressure and maybe a bit of easing would actually make people happier.
    2. I think the costs are too high to make it worth using for me very often and I will probably almost never engage with this system. Hence they should lower them. (I might use it for dupes of 1s and 2s, maybe.)
    3. If they will not lower them then they should put in some kind of way to make it free to swap copies after say the first 5 or 10 of that character (assuming you do it within 14 days and all at once). Really, dilution has made it so that you will only see a lot of the same character's covers with a hoard break, or if they're 1s, and maybe some 2s. So make hoarders feel better by giving them an out here. There are 19 2s, 74 3s, 152 4s in tokens and 102 5s so basically you would only see a large concentration of covers for 5s when you are pulling from a store with only 3 of them in it. If I opened 1600 (whatever a 550 hoard is nowadays) pulls you would get a bit over 10 covers per 4 on average while getting 113ish for the 5s. You can do the math appropriately, maybe I'm underestimating the pulls.
    4. if they cannot do (3), then they should put in a policy of allowing CS swaps for hoard breaks etc for like 6 months at a minimum, so people can adjust their expectations and strategies. I am not unsympathetic to the situation the devs put themselves into by keeping the game running long enough that people can with reduced spending and extremely mature rosters, plus ascension, build up large stockpiles of pulls on an ongoing basis and as a matter of course cover the very newest character (the routine chase item) to 550 - and the devs wanting to slow or stop that. But rug pulls are never a good way to deal with a customer base especially when you rely on people to keep doing a habitual activity they have built many expectations around. Breaking people's habits around playing (and spending) will have negative consequences.

    Anyway hopefully that helps a little with some ideas.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,346 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think that the Devs underestimated how big hoards of HP were when they did their few vaults of roster slot giveaways at the top end of the game. Now we have some players who have literally enough slots so as not to need buy one for years. Monetising this seems like the NEXT low hanging fruit.

    Of course it was the Devs choice to put those slots in repeat buyable vaults all of which were priced cheaply, so it is a problem of their own making but this is a way to hit at the top end of the tree who have growing piles of HP and eliminate a burden on CS, so it seems a no-brainer as long as they can withstand the early slings and arrows.

    I suppose it also opens up the opportunaity to possibly then sell "Cover swap" tokens much like they did with roster slots.

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 515 Critical Contributor

    My issue with this feature is it doesn't address extra shards. An option to break down covers for shards and iso with hp would have been more holistic.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bzhai said:
    My issue with this feature is it doesn't address extra shards. An option to break down covers for shards and iso with hp would have been more holistic.

    Can't you just turn the shards into a cover and pay the crazy tax to swap it?

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 515 Critical Contributor

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @Bzhai said:
    My issue with this feature is it doesn't address extra shards. An option to break down covers for shards and iso with hp would have been more holistic.

    Can't you just turn the shards into a cover and pay the crazy tax to swap it?

    Is that how it works? I thought you can only swap covers that are in your vine?

  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker

    Currently, CS swaps allow you to roster shards for Latest toons at 550 as a dupe and sell it, then CS will then give you the swap cover you requested.

    The new system appears to only work from the vine, based on the description and the photos provided.

    So I think @Bzhai is correct and @Daredevil217 is mistaken, the new system will not address shards in any way, because rostering a dupe bypasses the vine.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,286 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 16 December 2024, 16:28

    @Bzhai said:
    The problem with MThor is when you pair her with Fantasticar. I have had to sit through almost 2 minutes of the enemy team passively matching tiles like a pinball machine without being able to do anything.

    And this is on the second turn when her passive went off, after the dust settles they already have enough ap to fire all 3 of her powers, causing more cascades AND make a match. When Polaris or Shang Chi is their partner you might as well just shut off the game and go for a walk.

    I've long believed that if an AI turn goes long enough that your phone goes to sleep from inactivity that it should count as an 'auto-win' for the player when you wake the phone back up. It's VERY user experience for any AI related activity to go long enough for the phone to go to sleep.

    KGB

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Theghouse said:
    Currently, CS swaps allow you to roster shards for Latest toons at 550 as a dupe and sell it, then CS will then give you the swap cover you requested.

    The new system appears to only work from the vine, based on the description and the photos provided.

    So I think @Bzhai is correct and @Daredevil217 is mistaken, the new system will not address shards in any way, because rostering a dupe bypasses the vine.

    Shoot, that’s right. It will automatically roster the cover.

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