Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

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Comments

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,466 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @Theghouse said:
    Currently, CS swaps allow you to roster shards for Latest toons at 550 as a dupe and sell it, then CS will then give you the swap cover you requested.

    The new system appears to only work from the vine, based on the description and the photos provided.

    So I think @Bzhai is correct and @Daredevil217 is mistaken, the new system will not address shards in any way, because rostering a dupe bypasses the vine.

    Shoot, that’s right. It will automatically roster the cover.

    Yeah, they definitely need to have an answer for shards. Easiest way is just to have shards create a cover that goes to the vine.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    It hurt me. This is a competitive game. Every mode is a competition.
    Anything that helps one player necessarily hurts everyone else.

    Guarantee the swappers don't show up on leaderboards in PvE, and can't attack me or clog up my queues in PvP, and I'll agree that it doesn't hurt anyone.

    That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'd argue it's a wrong one. If something is available to all and only some take advantage of it, aren't you just creating your own problem? That's a you issue.

    You chose to use your resources in a different way than other people did and you'd rather be "right" about the way you used them than have used them "correctly". I was only able to make cover swaps during one particular set (May's, was saving for actual years at that point) and the excess of those were mostly applied to second-use characters, I had already taken the most pertinent characters close to 550 without swaps.

    Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

    It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know.

    With respect, you're wrong.

    As with many aspects of MPQ, Latest Legends Store swaps weren't officially documented in-game but they were common knowledge to anybody who had access to these forums and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    I can point you to posts where every detail of how those swaps work was spelt out step-by-step.

    I know that because I've written such posts in reply to others asking how some people are able to get new release 5*s that haven't even reached the Latest Legends Store to level 550 practically on the day of their release.

    Anybody invested enough in MPQ to learn more about how the game works, how to progress most efficiently and how to get to high-end, end-game MPQ play reads this forum and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    All anybody needed to know about Latest Legends Store swaps was very much in the public domain.

    I (and others) literally provided a complete guide of how to do it, so, please, stop suggesting that this was some kind of hidden, never mentioned, insider deal only available to "folks who were in the know".

    First, explain the handful of times when, with zero communication or documentation, swaps were applied to stores besides Latest.

    Second, why did the devs consistently refuse to answer any questions about the nature or existence of the policy, or publicly post it themselves on this forum or in game? If this was something meant to be used by anybody, why isn't it posted in the game's FAQ? Why isn't it documented in an official forum post? If it wasn't meant to be, they sure did act like it was a big secret!

  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,400 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bullroarer, the fact that you had to write detailed posts for people who weren't aware of the policy or how to access it does imply it was not "common knowledge" (or at least the definition of "common knowledge" is debatable in terms of the size of the community). I do agree that most people who would have been able to take advantage of it would have been aware or knew someone who was.

    @entrailbucket - nobody tried to hide it. It may not have been advertised and, in some cases, I expect the swaps were applied incorrectly when they shouldn't have been and CS were then forced to apply to everyone. I don't think that makes it a conspiracy, but I agree that by the very nature of some people being unaware, it was not a fully transparent policy.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Scofie said:
    @Bullroarer, the fact that you had to write detailed posts for people who weren't aware of the policy or how to access it does imply it was not "common knowledge" (or at least the definition of "common knowledge" is debatable in terms of the size of the community). I do agree that most people who would have been able to take advantage of it would have been aware or knew someone who was.

    @entrailbucket - nobody tried to hide it. It may not have been advertised and, in some cases, I expect the swaps were applied incorrectly when they shouldn't have been and CS were then forced to apply to everyone. I don't think that makes it a conspiracy, but I agree that by the very nature of some people being unaware, it was not a fully transparent policy.

    I don't disagree with any of that, and I don't think it was a conspiracy.

    The other piece of evidence is, of course, that they are getting rid of the policy. There must be some reason for that.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    It hurt me. This is a competitive game. Every mode is a competition.
    Anything that helps one player necessarily hurts everyone else.

    Guarantee the swappers don't show up on leaderboards in PvE, and can't attack me or clog up my queues in PvP, and I'll agree that it doesn't hurt anyone.

    That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'd argue it's a wrong one. If something is available to all and only some take advantage of it, aren't you just creating your own problem? That's a you issue.

    You chose to use your resources in a different way than other people did and you'd rather be "right" about the way you used them than have used them "correctly". I was only able to make cover swaps during one particular set (May's, was saving for actual years at that point) and the excess of those were mostly applied to second-use characters, I had already taken the most pertinent characters close to 550 without swaps.

    Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

    It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know.

    With respect, you're wrong.

    As with many aspects of MPQ, Latest Legends Store swaps weren't officially documented in-game but they were common knowledge to anybody who had access to these forums and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    Just out of curiosity, what are some of these other "aspects" that aren't documented? Are you comparing this to something strategic like shield hopping or grinding PvE? Or, like, the spreadsheets you guys keep to track PvE bracket flips?

    If it's the former, anybody can figure that out by, like, thinking. That is in no way comparable to an undocumented CS practice.

    If it's the latter, they absolutely need to disseminate that information publicly as well. I shouldn't have to be in some secret chat to compete.

  • Bullroarer
    Bullroarer Posts: 27 Just Dropped In

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    It hurt me. This is a competitive game. Every mode is a competition.
    Anything that helps one player necessarily hurts everyone else.

    Guarantee the swappers don't show up on leaderboards in PvE, and can't attack me or clog up my queues in PvP, and I'll agree that it doesn't hurt anyone.

    That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'd argue it's a wrong one. If something is available to all and only some take advantage of it, aren't you just creating your own problem? That's a you issue.

    You chose to use your resources in a different way than other people did and you'd rather be "right" about the way you used them than have used them "correctly". I was only able to make cover swaps during one particular set (May's, was saving for actual years at that point) and the excess of those were mostly applied to second-use characters, I had already taken the most pertinent characters close to 550 without swaps.

    Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

    It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know.

    With respect, you're wrong.

    As with many aspects of MPQ, Latest Legends Store swaps weren't officially documented in-game but they were common knowledge to anybody who had access to these forums and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    I can point you to posts where every detail of how those swaps work was spelt out step-by-step.

    I know that because I've written such posts in reply to others asking how some people are able to get new release 5*s that haven't even reached the Latest Legends Store to level 550 practically on the day of their release.

    Anybody invested enough in MPQ to learn more about how the game works, how to progress most efficiently and how to get to high-end, end-game MPQ play reads this forum and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    All anybody needed to know about Latest Legends Store swaps was very much in the public domain.

    I (and others) literally provided a complete guide of how to do it, so, please, stop suggesting that this was some kind of hidden, never mentioned, insider deal only available to "folks who were in the know".

    First, explain the handful of times when, with zero communication or documentation, swaps were applied to stores besides Latest.

    Second, why did the devs consistently refuse to answer any questions about the nature or existence of the policy, or publicly post it themselves on this forum or in game? If this was something meant to be used by anybody, why isn't it posted in the game's FAQ? Why isn't it documented in an official forum post? If it wasn't meant to be, they sure did act like it was a big secret!

    Thank you for your reply.

    First, to my knowledge, there haven't been "a handful" of times when the Latest Legends Store swap policy was extended to other stores.

    Yes, it has happened once or twice before, but, from what I can gather, it happened because a customer service agent made a mistake, and once that mistake had been made in favour of one player it was extended to other players.

    Also, when that error happened it was acknowledged and the temporary extension of the swap policy was communicated to the players by the development team, via the MPQ Discord server.

    Second, as I'm sure you know, Latest Legends Store swaps have always been at the discretion of the development/customer service team. It wasn't "official" official policy but after all these years it was a de facto part of the game.

    True, it wasn't documented as well as you would have liked it to be — as many of us would like it to be — but, as I pointed out in the very first words of my reply to you, there are many aspects of MPQ that aren't well-documented in-game or elsewhere.

    You only have to look at the number of questions people ask about ascension (here, on the MPQ Reddit, on the MPQ Discord server, and on LINE) to see that.

    In many ways, the player base has always been the best source of information for how the game is played, and, to be honest, that's been the way for practically every successful game I've ever played.

    Again, I disagree strongly with your summation that these swaps were some kind of big secret because the evidence strongly suggests otherwise. I read several posts about them well before I had my first 4* champion.

  • Bullroarer
    Bullroarer Posts: 27 Just Dropped In

    @Scofie said:
    @Bullroarer, the fact that you had to write detailed posts for people who weren't aware of the policy or how to access it does imply it was not "common knowledge" (or at least the definition of "common knowledge" is debatable in terms of the size of the community). I do agree that most people who would have been able to take advantage of it would have been aware or knew someone who was.

    @entrailbucket - nobody tried to hide it. It may not have been advertised and, in some cases, I expect the swaps were applied incorrectly when they shouldn't have been and CS were then forced to apply to everyone. I don't think that makes it a conspiracy, but I agree that by the very nature of some people being unaware, it was not a fully transparent policy.

    Thanks for your reply.

    We could argue about what's "common knowledge" or not forever but I'm fairly sure that I learned about hoarding and Latest Legends Store swaps within two to three weeks of starting to play MPQ, via posts made by others on the MPQ Reddit.

    If this was some kind of secret then it was a very badly kept one.

  • BlixTheFrog
    BlixTheFrog Posts: 193 Tile Toppler

    "Common knowledge" is what’s stated in-game. Period. All the RL people I know who casually play this game don’t use Line, this forum and barely know what Reddit is.

  • Bullroarer
    Bullroarer Posts: 27 Just Dropped In

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    It hurt me. This is a competitive game. Every mode is a competition.
    Anything that helps one player necessarily hurts everyone else.

    Guarantee the swappers don't show up on leaderboards in PvE, and can't attack me or clog up my queues in PvP, and I'll agree that it doesn't hurt anyone.

    That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'd argue it's a wrong one. If something is available to all and only some take advantage of it, aren't you just creating your own problem? That's a you issue.

    You chose to use your resources in a different way than other people did and you'd rather be "right" about the way you used them than have used them "correctly". I was only able to make cover swaps during one particular set (May's, was saving for actual years at that point) and the excess of those were mostly applied to second-use characters, I had already taken the most pertinent characters close to 550 without swaps.

    Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

    It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know.

    With respect, you're wrong.

    As with many aspects of MPQ, Latest Legends Store swaps weren't officially documented in-game but they were common knowledge to anybody who had access to these forums and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    Just out of curiosity, what are some of these other "aspects" that aren't documented? Are you comparing this to something strategic like shield hopping or grinding PvE? Or, like, the spreadsheets you guys keep to track PvE bracket flips?

    If it's the former, anybody can figure that out by, like, thinking. That is in no way comparable to an undocumented CS practice.

    If it's the latter, they absolutely need to disseminate that information publicly as well. I shouldn't have to be in some secret chat to compete.

    I gave an example in my last reply to you: ascension.

    The amount of in-game information about ascension is minimal. There's no information button or tutorial. There's not even something to tell you that this is a way to elevate characters to a higher tier.

    Of all the games I've played for more than 100 hours this century, MPQ might be the worst when it comes to in-game explanations of basic game dynamics.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 321 Mover and Shaker

    What about a controlled burn? I would consider that fighting fire with fire. That strategy used by farmer and firefighters all the time.

  • Bullroarer
    Bullroarer Posts: 27 Just Dropped In

    @BlixTheFrog said:
    "Common knowledge" is what’s stated in-game. Period. All the RL people I know who casually play this game don’t use Line, this forum and barely know what Reddit is.

    Well, I think we can all agree that casual MPQ players aren't likely to be reading these forums, the MPQ Reddit, or any other online source of MPQ news.

    At the same time I think we can also agree that casual MPQ players aren't likely to be need Latest Legends Store swaps, so it isn't something that affected them.

    So, true, it's not common knowledge among all MPQ players but I'd argue that it is common knowledge among those who play at the highest level and who hoard/unhoard and who are in a position to benefit from it.

    Perhaps more importantly, while it's a feature that's available to everybody regardless of whether they're free to play or not, it's probably universal knowledge among those whose spending the game relies on to be viable.

    That's not to say that those who make in-app purchases should always get their own way but we all know that any such game can't afford to alienate and/or drive away the hands that feed it.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    It hurt me. This is a competitive game. Every mode is a competition.
    Anything that helps one player necessarily hurts everyone else.

    Guarantee the swappers don't show up on leaderboards in PvE, and can't attack me or clog up my queues in PvP, and I'll agree that it doesn't hurt anyone.

    That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'd argue it's a wrong one. If something is available to all and only some take advantage of it, aren't you just creating your own problem? That's a you issue.

    You chose to use your resources in a different way than other people did and you'd rather be "right" about the way you used them than have used them "correctly". I was only able to make cover swaps during one particular set (May's, was saving for actual years at that point) and the excess of those were mostly applied to second-use characters, I had already taken the most pertinent characters close to 550 without swaps.

    Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

    It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know.

    With respect, you're wrong.

    As with many aspects of MPQ, Latest Legends Store swaps weren't officially documented in-game but they were common knowledge to anybody who had access to these forums and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    Just out of curiosity, what are some of these other "aspects" that aren't documented? Are you comparing this to something strategic like shield hopping or grinding PvE? Or, like, the spreadsheets you guys keep to track PvE bracket flips?

    If it's the former, anybody can figure that out by, like, thinking. That is in no way comparable to an undocumented CS practice.

    If it's the latter, they absolutely need to disseminate that information publicly as well. I shouldn't have to be in some secret chat to compete.

    I gave an example in my last reply to you: ascension.

    The amount of in-game information about ascension is minimal. There's no information button or tutorial. There's not even something to tell you that this is a way to elevate characters to a higher tier.

    Of all the games I've played for more than 100 hours this century, MPQ might be the worst when it comes to in-game explanations of basic game dynamics.

    That's a good example. I think the answer is to document it though! I've pushed for some kind of ascension preview, where folks can see those stats before committing resources. I think the current implementation is absolutely incomplete without it.

    I always disliked the CS swap policy, because I felt it encouraged play patterns that weren't fun. But that's my opinion, and one that most didn't share. If the devs had just published the policy, though, I really wouldn't have had an issue with it.

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 854 Critical Contributor

    @Codex said:
    What about a controlled burn? I would consider that fighting fire with fire. That strategy used by farmer and firefighters all the time.

    No I was actively making more fire by striking it with a firey stick
    Not my words

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    It hurt me. This is a competitive game. Every mode is a competition.
    Anything that helps one player necessarily hurts everyone else.

    Guarantee the swappers don't show up on leaderboards in PvE, and can't attack me or clog up my queues in PvP, and I'll agree that it doesn't hurt anyone.

    That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'd argue it's a wrong one. If something is available to all and only some take advantage of it, aren't you just creating your own problem? That's a you issue.

    You chose to use your resources in a different way than other people did and you'd rather be "right" about the way you used them than have used them "correctly". I was only able to make cover swaps during one particular set (May's, was saving for actual years at that point) and the excess of those were mostly applied to second-use characters, I had already taken the most pertinent characters close to 550 without swaps.

    Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

    It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know.

    With respect, you're wrong.

    As with many aspects of MPQ, Latest Legends Store swaps weren't officially documented in-game but they were common knowledge to anybody who had access to these forums and/or the MPQ Reddit.

    Just out of curiosity, what are some of these other "aspects" that aren't documented? Are you comparing this to something strategic like shield hopping or grinding PvE? Or, like, the spreadsheets you guys keep to track PvE bracket flips?

    If it's the former, anybody can figure that out by, like, thinking. That is in no way comparable to an undocumented CS practice.

    If it's the latter, they absolutely need to disseminate that information publicly as well. I shouldn't have to be in some secret chat to compete.

    I gave an example in my last reply to you: ascension.

    The amount of in-game information about ascension is minimal. There's no information button or tutorial. There's not even something to tell you that this is a way to elevate characters to a higher tier.

    Of all the games I've played for more than 100 hours this century, MPQ might be the worst when it comes to in-game explanations of basic game dynamics.

    I actually just remembered another, even better example of the sort of thing you're talking about.

    Awhile ago, I think it was this year, but maybe last year, they realized that support bonus shards weren't working correctly, and decided to fix it for those of us who were shorted.

    The fix? Send a ticket to CS and they'll gift you whatever amount of shards you missed out on, roughly. The problem? They only announced this on the forum (plus, I assume, Reddit/Discord/etc).

    Announcing it here, a place that's linked to in game, is certainly better than not announcing it at all, or only putting it on Discord. But how many players missed out on that because they did it this way? Why couldn't they just give everybody what they missed, or at least do a pop-up in game?

    These kinds of things are chronic with these guys -- I agree with you there. But instead of just accepting that they're terrible at communicating and doing their job for them, we should be calling them out for it.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,854 Chairperson of the Boards

    Why do the devs not publish broadly things like "hey if you pull a whole bunch of Latest tokens you can swap dupes"? Or "you might have not gotten all the Support shards you should have when you opened tokens"?

    ....Do we have to ask? There are like 45,000 players or so. A whole lot of them only kind of get what's going on. A whole lot of them, if told "you might qualify for something free, send a CS ticket" would probably send a ticket even if they didn't even do the activity. Or because they misunderstood. People who opened 300 Heroics and Elites would send a ticket "I got a bunch of 2 Storms and I want to trade them for Ares".

    ....once when i knew nothing, I sent a ticket because I was mad that I had missed a clear but I was in the middle of the match when the timer ended and I was convinced I had met the criteria to get the points....People, I'm sure, send stupid or ignorant CS tickets on a regular basis even when no one is telling them "hey we have this thing we can give you if you send a ticket in".

    Publishing broadly "send in tickets and we will evaluate if you are owed free rewards, or if you can trade in dupes you don't want" would be opening floodgates of tickets that would tie up CS.

    Maybe this is unfair and all that, that people with a deep understanding of the game but aren't on the socials wouldn't get this info, but it also means that people looking for free stuff or who don't understand it aren't submitting pointless tickets. The devs are, after all, running a business and they want to try to keep CS available as much as possible for issues like when someone's account gets locked out, or a purchase didn't work, or whatever.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf receiving a million potentially unnecessary CS tickets seems like a natural result of the deliberate choice to have CS do these things, instead of just putting them into the actual game.

    You're making the argument for the thing they just did.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,504 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bzhai said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @Bzhai said:
    My issue with this feature is it doesn't address extra shards. An option to break down covers for shards and iso with hp would have been more holistic.

    Can't you just turn the shards into a cover and pay the crazy tax to swap it?

    Is that how it works? I thought you can only swap covers that are in your vine?

    No you would tell them what cover you wanted when you email them to swap the shards.

    I.e. I have 500 5* agtha Shards that I would like to exchange for 1 5* Namor Green cover.

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