Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

SuperCarrot

This is a perfect summary of the situation. They absolutely have the right to do this, even after 6 years, and you (and others) absolutely have the right to be upset by it, especially since they've done it for 6 years.

"They've taken a free service and now charge for it" is exactly what's happening.

I just don't understand how anybody can be surprised by it. This game exists to make money and has only ever existed to make money. Of course they're going to monetize something like this! They're going to monetize everything they possibly can, because players will pay what they ask. It's been proven over and over again throughout the years.

Or the players can choose not to spend. It is all a value proposition per individual player. They are attempting to find pain points to get the most they can.

This kind of stuff happens to businesses when a private equity firm comes and takes them over. They monetize everything they can, reduce services, buy cheaper goods, make as much as possible then sell it to the next group who attempts to do the same until a shell is left of the company (this might not be the case it is just a potential trajectory)

SuperCarrot

@KGB said:

@SuperCarrot said:
Something which was free, and probably took very little of Customer Services time….if you consider the small percentage of people at that stage of the game, is now not free.

Actually this policy was sucking up a lot of Customer Service time (an ever increasing amount as more players are in position to 550 the latest via hoarding in the manner you did). More than any other single issue (something like 30% was cited in older threads). So it makes sense it would be one of the things they'd most want to change to reduce Customer Service usage which costs them money.

KGB

I spent money to create a hoard. In that time I managed to get all the toons and 60 5 stars champed. I have also champed all but 6 4 stars. I spent my money to effectively use the built in systems and progress fairly optimally. I have constantly spent and built at the same time, so I never sat and didn’t spend and just hoard.

I have seen some on Reddit say it really wasn’t that large of a burden. Truthfully if it is as small of an amount of players at the level where this matters. Then I doubt it is that much of a workload. Honestly it is wrong to speculate on it, either of us could be right or we both could be completely wrong. We won’t know on that.

Edited to add I’m not saying I’m quitting. I still currently enjoy the game. This is just not a good look at the price point and might give people pause.

entrailbucket

@SuperCarrot said:

This is a perfect summary of the situation. They absolutely have the right to do this, even after 6 years, and you (and others) absolutely have the right to be upset by it, especially since they've done it for 6 years.

"They've taken a free service and now charge for it" is exactly what's happening.

I just don't understand how anybody can be surprised by it. This game exists to make money and has only ever existed to make money. Of course they're going to monetize something like this! They're going to monetize everything they possibly can, because players will pay what they ask. It's been proven over and over again throughout the years.

Or the players can choose not to spend. It is all a value proposition per individual player. They are attempting to find pain points to get the most they can.

This kind of stuff happens to businesses when a private equity firm comes and takes them over. They monetize everything they can, reduce services, buy cheaper goods, make as much as possible then sell it to the next group who attempts to do the same until a shell is left of the company (this might not be the case it is just a potential trajectory)

Absolutely! I don't think private equity is interested in getting into decade-old mobile games, but it's the same general idea.

Unfortunately this is just what the f2p mobile business model is, and what it's always been. This game only exists, and only ever existed, to make as much money as possible.

I've accepted it. If you don't, you should stop supporting it -- that's the only way to make it change. We can't escape the private equity-style strip mining in the real world, because it's everywhere and there are things we need to buy to live. A mobile game just doesn't fall into that category at all.

captainheath

I would use this, but the cost is way too high. Even half that cost is too high. I don't know why they would throw their resources into something that most people won't use due to the high cost.

ThunderK

I never used "cover swap through CS" before, simply because I didn't know about it or how it works. Now, my only concern is the high cost. I don't think I will be using the new swap feature much because of the high cost.

fight4thedream

Considering the increase in various offers and new vaults, I assume this decision came from a position of confidence that overall it will generate more profit despite the potential risk of losing long term players and whales.

Obviously this was going to be unpopular for the 550 crowd but not sure how big a change it will make in terms of character acquisition for that group. I suppose the most significant is that they will miss out on the new character's boost month so there will be a drop in new characters appearing in PvP. The risk there is that they will grow bored waiting every 3 months to champ everyone.

But I can see how this would be an appealing change for those in the 3/4 tier although as others have pointed the price point for exchanging covers does seem a bit high. I am curious how they arrived at those numbers and whether prices will be adjusted.

I suppose what is most concerning is that the game has become increasingly more difficult for a new player to join the end game meta. Previously you could just hoard your CP and LTs and hop on the next meta wave and pick up significant characters with any overages. Now that has become much more restrictive and as the meta has shifted from what was once the one-combo to rule them all to a much more diversified meta field, even jumping on the next meta wave won't offer the same value in terms of power dynamics as it once did.

I suppose this is why ascended 1* characters are as strong as they are to help alleviate that potential issue.

Borstock

I don't think it will be more difficult to reach end-game meta for those players. I just think that the meta is going to be all ascended characters.

KGB

@captainheath said:
I would use this, but the cost is way too high. Even half that cost is too high. I don't know why they would throw their resources into something that most people won't use due to the high cost.

Because something tells me this is just the 'initial offer'. Much in the same way you can by a single cover for the latest 5 star for 500 CP in the Offers menu or a specific cover for a 5* for 750 CP in the character screen. I doubt many (if any) pay this exorbitant price when there are regularly 'deals' that offer the same thing for half or a quarter of those prices or less.

In other words, expect to see 'deals' where cover swaps (maybe to a specific 5) are offered for 500 or less HP. If we look at ISO sales they now offer 10x ISO for for the Stark so that it's 75000 instead of 75000.

KGB

meadowsweet

@Aweberman said:
Here's a real world use for this system...
...But if this system had been in place a year ago, I could've swapped out all those extra covers...
...Of course, the 1250 HP cost is too much; something like 100-200 would be more reasonable in my mind...

So... the "real world use" case is that you'll never, ever use this? That's not much of a use case.

@KGB said:
Actually this policy was sucking up a lot of Customer Service time ... So it makes sense it would be one of the things they'd most want to change to reduce Customer Service usage which costs them money.

But... your argument is that the devs were spending money to manually process user requests. The simplest solution to that problem would have been to give players a tool that exactly replicates what their customer service employees were doing (allow them to top off the three current five-star Latest Legends to level 550, then choose to swap covers with any other five star character for free.)
That is NOT what they chose to do. Now we are charged exorbitant fees - per cover - and cannot select characters in Latest Legends.
Claiming this was merely a necessary, rational, cost-saving move by the devs is confusing two separate issues:
1. Did something need to be done? (Yes.)
2. Did it have to be this? (No.)

Aweberman

@meadowsweet said:

@Aweberman said:
Here's a real world use for this system...
...But if this system had been in place a year ago, I could've swapped out all those extra covers...
...Of course, the 1250 HP cost is too much; something like 100-200 would be more reasonable in my mind...

So... the "real world use" case is that you'll never, ever use this? That's not much of a use case.

Not at all! I will definitely use it. Saying that spending 1250 HP is "too much" is not the same as saying I won't do it.

As I said, my dupe Mighty Thor currently has 3 covers. The next time I pull Thor from a classic token, I will very likely spend the coin to convert that to a cover of one of my higher-level characters.

I think more people would join me if the cost were lower, though.

meadowsweet

@Aweberman said:
Not at all! I will definitely use it. Saying that spending 1250 HP is "too much" is not the same as saying I won't do it ... The next time I pull Thor from a classic token, I will very likely spend the coin to convert that to a cover of one of my higher-level characters.

So... you're going to use it every single time, but you're not happy about it and you wish that it was cheaper, but that's not going to stop you?

Codex

Maybe this off topic, but currently in my resource store the are selling 20 SW shards for 560hp. Comparatively to the 1250hp for a cover swaps, the 1250hp sounds like a good deal.
I would be curious to know how many buy shards from the resource store. I haven't and never will. I don't believe they have lowered those prices since launch. If I remember correctly there were complaints those prices were astronomical. If they didn't change that, no reason to believe they would change prices here.

Aweberman

@meadowsweet said:

@Aweberman said:
Not at all! I will definitely use it. Saying that spending 1250 HP is "too much" is not the same as saying I won't do it ... The next time I pull Thor from a classic token, I will very likely spend the coin to convert that to a cover of one of my higher-level characters.

So... you're going to use it every single time, but you're not happy about it and you wish that it was cheaper, but that's not going to stop you?

This is the second time you've inserted absolutes into statements I've made ("never, ever" and "every single time").

I would prefer for this service to be less expensive. 250-500 HP seems like a more reasonable cost. But, yes, I would probably find myself spending the 1250 more often than not. Two relevant points:

• I feel I will get more utility out of another champion level than out of an undercovered or low-level dupe.
• I looked at today's lightning vault and considered mashing the 6000 HP button to get the 750 5-star shards. Comparatively, spending a fifth of that for one cover is not terrible.

BobDucca

I think it's a little...disingenuous to use two of the worst value items in the game (lightning vaults and the resource store) as comparable for a new feature if you're trying to suggest folks should accept the cost. Just because those other items exist doesn't mean anyone should consider them reasonable, and any argument that those are the 'correct market rate' for things is misleading at best.

entrailbucket

@Codex said:
Maybe this off topic, but currently in my resource store the are selling 20 SW shards for 560hp. Comparatively to the 1250hp for a cover swaps, the 1250hp sounds like a good deal.
I would be curious to know how many buy shards from the resource store. I haven't and never will. I don't believe they have lowered those prices since launch. If I remember correctly there were complaints those prices were astronomical. If they didn't change that, no reason to believe they would change prices here.

I always buy these (for any character of any tier) if I'm pretty close to getting a level. They often end up paying for themselves.

Aweberman

@BobDucca said:
I think it's a little...disingenuous to use two of the worst value items in the game (lightning vaults and the resource store) as comparable for a new feature if you're trying to suggest folks should accept the cost. Just because those other items exist doesn't mean anyone should consider them reasonable, and any argument that those are the 'correct market rate' for things is misleading at best.

Are the lightning vaults considered one of the worst-value items in the game? Okay, then.

How about the 11th Anniversary vault? It had 119 items, of which (if I recall correctly) 18 were 5-star covers. If you bought the 2800 HP daily deal and cleaned the vault out -- which, let's just call it 11 days and figure you got some extra singeltons in there as you went -- then you spent 30,800. Of course, you would have been refunded 4,500 back, so that's a net of 26,300. If you ignore all the other items, that's 1460 per 5-star cover.

But I had all the 4-stars in that vault already ascended, so getting 3 covers for each was (almost) like getting another 5-star cover. I don't remember who was in there -- XFW, Grocket, Deadpool ... maybe another one? -- but let's say, generously, that's another 4 covers. Now we're spending about 1200 per 5-star cover.

And yeah, there's 2s and 3s in there too and whatever else, but I don't think I would characterize this rate as dramatically less expensive.

Though, finally, because this seems to have been ignored in previous posts, let me reiterate for a third time: 1250 HP feels like it's above the curve for cost of this feature. But between the above math and the much more simple math that the developers (or their bosses) might be using -- where rather than spending 1200 on a roster slot for a dupe you're instead spending 1250 on a level for another character -- I can kind of see where they got their numbers.

BobDucca

I do appreciate the engagement on the topic of value, but just because they called it the anniversary vault doesn’t mean it was good value either. It was not.

I don’t think everything should be benchmarked on the December deals/etc vaults but it’s clear they’ve done a great job of waiting long enough for many to forget what a good deal looks like and the value provided by this exchange is clearly taking advantage of that.

With that said, I kinda like the mechanic and am fine that they are charging for it, despite being someone who has been saving (and spending!) to build a hoard for many many months and was going to be doing my first 550 unhoard and swap.

IMO, price should be 10/25/50/100/250, and they should allow the exchange to happen from LL to LL as well, but not for characters not yet in tokens. They also need to figure out how to allow exchanging shards as well, which are now only usable for dupes.

Aweberman

@BobDucca said:
With that said, I kinda like the mechanic and am fine that they are charging for it, despite being someone who has been saving (and spending!) to build a hoard for many many months and was going to be doing my first 550 unhoard and swap.

IMO, price should be 10/25/50/100/250, and they should allow the exchange to happen within LLs as well, including exchanging shards which are now only usable for dupes, but not for characters not yet in tokens.

Since one goal of this system seems to be to cut down on 550 swaps, this does seem like they’ve timed it specifically for that. Though, as others have said, if that’s the case, it’s very poor communication on their part. I remember breaking hoards, and it was an exciting time … and that was just trying champ 3 characters! I’d be super disappointed to have to wait another couple months to start piecemealing it together.

Those prices you suggest seem like the right spot to me, too. Hopefully all of this outcry will trigger some response (even if that doesn’t necessarily help the 550ers).

Painmonger

I don't know that I'd ever be in the position to use the old system, but I do have 550 Okoye & SC currently. I never put any effort into it, but I have a dupe for Okoye at 496 now. If I'm doing the math right that means I could have spent 73,750 HP to convert those excess covers had this new system been in place.

Is that worth it? I definitely don't think so. I would much rather spend the HP on another roster slot 1 time & have the extra source of income from that dupe personally.

Isn't creating an end-user process already increasing profit by reducing the CS time spent on this? I'm all for a company figuring out a way to make a profit, but don't tell me the small percentage of the player base that can take advantage of the old system were using so many company resources that not only are you saving money by not doing it anymore, but you're also adding a worse system that charges for it. There is no way this is good for me as the customer.

It probably sounds like there's some anger there, but there isn't. I'm a jaded Gen X, I always assume whatever I'm told is a sham lol! I'm not quitting, I will just spend the exact same amount of time/energy/resources on this as i did on the old cover swaps. In 3800+ days I've spent less than $150 total, so I don't imagine i was ever their target audience for this anyway.

SuperCarrot

Lots of good opinions and ideas on the subject. Since this is happening anyway, maybe the focus should just be on getting broken circle to reconsider the pricing. Which seems to have more of a consensus of needing a possible tweaking.