Nova (Tanak Valt) 5*

bluewolf

@DAZ0273 said:

@bluewolf said:
I can’t imagine that he is any better in the 550 tier than he is in the lower tiers of 5* play.

He needs to tank for maximum effectiveness, he does random stuff, it’s possible his black would do nothing on defense since you can try to fire it and nothing happens depending on conditions - if he is full health it just says, if the effect is healing, that the power will have no effect (not sure what the AI does with this). I suppose it would slightly depend on who you’re using him with in PvP but obviously he’s not a pve powerhouse and PvP is basically the boosted folks plus or minus Thor in 550 land. He overlaps two Thor colors and both are far worse than hers.

I mean people can chase 550 in the Latests train for him as they do, but there’s no way I think people should burn CP in his store to 550 him and Adam Warlock.

The accidental preview of Agatha suggested she’ll be much better than Nova.

With his black power if you get the health is full condition you can just try and fire it again for a different random effect.

Yes…I can. What would the AI do in that situation? Maybe it just saves the black for next turn but while defense is basically non-existent in a real sense, I prefer to use teams that will do stuff that works reliably on defense as much as possible.

I guess it more comes down to his kit requiring very care human management to approach effectiveness and on defense he seems like someone I’d hit without a second thought.

bluewolf

So, it seems like his red power does the damage to the target. And then it does the extra damage per CD that’s out to a random target for each one.

So I’ve gotten times I take out all 3 enemies on like the 3rd or 4th turn with my 3-4 May and Deathlok supplying extra ap and boost. Sometimes it’s just two of them. It’s random.

But it’s not in the description. Or, it’s poorly worded because it doesn’t explicitly say it does random damage…it just is implied by how it’s worded that it’s a giant nuke to the target, amplified by the other CDs, instead of a multi hit to random targets.

EDIT: after using him a lot more it seems apparent the damage carries forward vs being random (ala Sabretooth or Valkyrie), but I’m not always sure why it does the damage it does (seems to fluctuate more than I expect). Regardless the description is lacking in not describing the effect and he’s better than he initially looked.

It shouldn’t take me trying him a lot to figure out stuff that other characters just explicitly state in their ability description.

TheXMan

I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

Borstock

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

LavaManLee

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

LavaManLee

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

Thanks for all the info. I decided to unhoard and should have 5Nova at 550 this week. Seems like I won't regret it.

Daredevil217

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

Thanks for all the info. I decided to unhoard and should have 5Nova at 550 this week. Seems like I won't regret it.

Just remember that he's god-boosted so people are rating him with a 100+ level boost that will come around once a millennia, lol. I'm assuming (based on nothing) he will be about as good as most other characters god-boosted and rarely seen otherwise, but I could be wrong. I know I've taken down around 550 no problem, but don't know that I've faced a 670 (or whatever the boost ends up being).

bluewolf

@Daredevil217 said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

Thanks for all the info. I decided to unhoard and should have 5Nova at 550 this week. Seems like I won't regret it.

Just remember that he's god-boosted so people are rating him with a 100+ level boost that will come around once a millennia, lol. I'm assuming (based on nothing) he will be about as good as most other characters god-boosted and rarely seen otherwise, but I could be wrong. I know I've taken down around 550 no problem, but don't know that I've faced a 670 (or whatever the boost ends up being).

I’d say it really depends on your options. Like I’d use a 550 Nova over say a low level Archangel boosted to 582, or any of this week’s boost list at that level.

But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

LavaManLee

@bluewolf said:
But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

Actually, my unhoarding for Nova works better for Agatha as I have the others at 550 also (Kaine/May/Hotpool). So any 5* I pull for the next two months can go right to Agatha (again, assuming she is next).

Also, I would put 5 AuntMay in the meta-defining for PVE. Clears for PVE have gone down considerably from a time perspective, even when not boosted.

entrailbucket

There's something to be said for "luxury items" in MPQ, depending where your roster level is.

Let's stipulate that Nova is only good when he's boosted (not sure about that, but assume it's the case), and that those boosted weeks are rare. I imagine very very few other players will max him out, so when he is boosted, someone who did max him out will have an advantage.

Is it going to be a massive, unbeatable advantage? Probably not, given the state of the metagame on offense. But it's worth something.

I probably wouldn't max him out before getting anybody else there, but if you've already got the top 4 or 5, I don't think there's a ton of difference between #6 and someone like Nova -- except that during his boost week, you'll have him at 672 and few others will.

bluewolf

@LavaManLee said:

@bluewolf said:
But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

Actually, my unhoarding for Nova works better for Agatha as I have the others at 550 also (Kaine/May/Hotpool). So any 5* I pull for the next two months can go right to Agatha (again, assuming she is next).

Also, I would put 5 AuntMay in the meta-defining for PVE. Clears for PVE have gone down considerably from a time perspective, even when not boosted.

On the one hand, yes, Aunt May is meta. But....she is meta under specific conditions. If she's boosted? yeah, she's who you use in pve, and probably PVP. If you've got her at 550 (or maybe a little under? I'm not sure)....still meta in PVE. Cruising at warp speed, no faster option, maybe not ever. I don't know if 550 folks use her in PVP, she seems too expensive resource-wise to be worth it over other characters who do better under AI control.

I'm sure there's a break level under which where she's not going to be doing enough dmg to run her in PVE over other options like using ascended 3-4 May with a boosted 5 with strong passives/cheap nukes. Or Omega, or Thanos. etc.

The other thing is, you by my understanding basically need to use AP boosts, if you're going to do well. And have the right supports, although that's true for any character.

To me, meta means you can run them in pvp, and people will likely try to avoid them to some degree, and they'll always be preferred in PVE by new players who are building their rosters up. Because they're beating hard nodes and doing it fast (sometimes these are slightly different things so there's sometimes differences in where someone's meta).

I'm not sure Aunt May is someone I'd be pushing towards someone who's in 4 land and developing their 5* roster. She's pretty terrible on defense especially at a lower level. In that sense, to me, she falls below meta status. She's great if you managed to 550 her before, and can chase now in a reasonable timeframe, but not quite high enough to recommend as one of the first 5 or so toons for a newer 5* player.

LavaManLee

@bluewolf said:

@LavaManLee said:

@bluewolf said:
But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

Actually, my unhoarding for Nova works better for Agatha as I have the others at 550 also (Kaine/May/Hotpool). So any 5* I pull for the next two months can go right to Agatha (again, assuming she is next).

Also, I would put 5 AuntMay in the meta-defining for PVE. Clears for PVE have gone down considerably from a time perspective, even when not boosted.

On the one hand, yes, Aunt May is meta. But....she is meta under specific conditions. If she's boosted? yeah, she's who you use in pve, and probably PVP. If you've got her at 550 (or maybe a little under? I'm not sure)....still meta in PVE. Cruising at warp speed, no faster option, maybe not ever. I don't know if 550 folks use her in PVP, she seems too expensive resource-wise to be worth it over other characters who do better under AI control.

I'm sure there's a break level under which where she's not going to be doing enough dmg to run her in PVE over other options like using ascended 3-4 May with a boosted 5 with strong passives/cheap nukes. Or Omega, or Thanos. etc.

The other thing is, you by my understanding basically need to use AP boosts, if you're going to do well. And have the right supports, although that's true for any character.

To me, meta means you can run them in pvp, and people will likely try to avoid them to some degree, and they'll always be preferred in PVE by new players who are building their rosters up. Because they're beating hard nodes and doing it fast (sometimes these are slightly different things so there's sometimes differences in where someone's meta).

I'm not sure Aunt May is someone I'd be pushing towards someone who's in 4 land and developing their 5* roster. She's pretty terrible on defense especially at a lower level. In that sense, to me, she falls below meta status. She's great if you managed to 550 her before, and can chase now in a reasonable timeframe, but not quite high enough to recommend as one of the first 5 or so toons for a newer 5* player.

Nice post but I definitely didn't say she was meta in PVP. Just PVE. I totally agree she isn't meta in PVP at all.

rainkingucd

Fun Fact about Nova: his passive Nova Corps can trigger twice per turn: once for a start of turn passive, and again on the enemy match.

I was getting 2 Nova Corps procs per turn against Polaris and Jane in the Captain America PVP

LavaManLee

After getting him to 550, and of course he is boosted right now, he's not bad. Definitely a niche character, but certainly nowhere near the bottom. I haven't paired him Coulson yet but imagine that would be fun.

bluewolf

Tbh I’ve come around a lot on Nova. As a boosted 5 in pve with Iron May and Deathlok I’m crushing most nodes without trying, and he’s decent in PvP, except he won’t tank much due to the new character boost being much lower than the standard weekly boost.

So I guess that means he’ll be a better choice in PvP when boosted normally during his week vs now. At least for me.

entrailbucket

I'm not gonna say "I told you so."

I think the lesson is what I was saying before -- BCS has tended to release complicated powersets, and those powersets also often have odd wording, important things de-emphasized, or other strange quirks that just make these guys very hard to evaluate on paper.

Personally I've (basically) stopped trying to evaluate before I can get them in game and run 50 or 100 fights with them championed.

(The reason I'm not saying "I told you so" is that I kept missing on all these guys too. It is totally understandable that we make the wrong call on these wordy, bizarre characters on paper. The only lesson here is that we should try to stop doing that.)

bluewolf

I suppose a good lesson here - at least for MPQ - is to try to not let the worst element of something define your opinion of it.

I’m still not a fan of his black but the other parts work well.

Also he benefits from the right supports etc. (Power Stone adds a lot)

rainkingucd

@LavaManLee said:
After getting him to 550, and of course he is boosted right now, he's not bad. Definitely a niche character, but certainly nowhere near the bottom. I haven't paired him Coulson yet but imagine that would be fun.

I have been running the past 2 PVP events with Nova / Coulson and it is great. Power Stone on Nova, Refreshment Cart on Essential, and tons of countdowns constantly generating more AP