Nova (Tanak Valt) 5*

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

LavaManLee

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

LavaManLee

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

Thanks for all the info. I decided to unhoard and should have 5Nova at 550 this week. Seems like I won't regret it.

Daredevil217

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

Thanks for all the info. I decided to unhoard and should have 5Nova at 550 this week. Seems like I won't regret it.

Just remember that he's god-boosted so people are rating him with a 100+ level boost that will come around once a millennia, lol. I'm assuming (based on nothing) he will be about as good as most other characters god-boosted and rarely seen otherwise, but I could be wrong. I know I've taken down around 550 no problem, but don't know that I've faced a 670 (or whatever the boost ends up being).

bluewolf

@Daredevil217 said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@TheXMan said:
I see quite a few people with 550 Nova not using him in PVP and he is boosted

I've seen a few. I attacked one just to see how I would fare with my Omega Red and Juggs. I was doing well until he healed for 90k health. That pretty much ended it.

Yeah he's kind of a nightmare. You don't want his CD tiles to go off, because the effects are unpleasant and it powers up his red, but you also don't want to match them, because it powers up his black ability. And there's really no way to kill him without generating a ton of CDs.

This is actually great to hear. I don't like hoarding so I may just build my 5Nova up. I'm always looking for decent defensive deterrents in PVP.

He's actually super annoying. One thing we all overlooked -- he makes a 2 turn CD when he takes damage, but he takes damage on your turn, not his. So the enemy turn starts and it immediately ticks down to 1.

You really need to burst him down, killing him with match damage is brutal.

Thanks for all the info. I decided to unhoard and should have 5Nova at 550 this week. Seems like I won't regret it.

Just remember that he's god-boosted so people are rating him with a 100+ level boost that will come around once a millennia, lol. I'm assuming (based on nothing) he will be about as good as most other characters god-boosted and rarely seen otherwise, but I could be wrong. I know I've taken down around 550 no problem, but don't know that I've faced a 670 (or whatever the boost ends up being).

I’d say it really depends on your options. Like I’d use a 550 Nova over say a low level Archangel boosted to 582, or any of this week’s boost list at that level.

But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

LavaManLee

@bluewolf said:
But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

Actually, my unhoarding for Nova works better for Agatha as I have the others at 550 also (Kaine/May/Hotpool). So any 5* I pull for the next two months can go right to Agatha (again, assuming she is next).

Also, I would put 5 AuntMay in the meta-defining for PVE. Clears for PVE have gone down considerably from a time perspective, even when not boosted.

entrailbucket

There's something to be said for "luxury items" in MPQ, depending where your roster level is.

Let's stipulate that Nova is only good when he's boosted (not sure about that, but assume it's the case), and that those boosted weeks are rare. I imagine very very few other players will max him out, so when he is boosted, someone who did max him out will have an advantage.

Is it going to be a massive, unbeatable advantage? Probably not, given the state of the metagame on offense. But it's worth something.

I probably wouldn't max him out before getting anybody else there, but if you've already got the top 4 or 5, I don't think there's a ton of difference between #6 and someone like Nova -- except that during his boost week, you'll have him at 672 and few others will.

bluewolf

@LavaManLee said:

@bluewolf said:
But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

Actually, my unhoarding for Nova works better for Agatha as I have the others at 550 also (Kaine/May/Hotpool). So any 5* I pull for the next two months can go right to Agatha (again, assuming she is next).

Also, I would put 5 AuntMay in the meta-defining for PVE. Clears for PVE have gone down considerably from a time perspective, even when not boosted.

On the one hand, yes, Aunt May is meta. But....she is meta under specific conditions. If she's boosted? yeah, she's who you use in pve, and probably PVP. If you've got her at 550 (or maybe a little under? I'm not sure)....still meta in PVE. Cruising at warp speed, no faster option, maybe not ever. I don't know if 550 folks use her in PVP, she seems too expensive resource-wise to be worth it over other characters who do better under AI control.

I'm sure there's a break level under which where she's not going to be doing enough dmg to run her in PVE over other options like using ascended 3-4 May with a boosted 5 with strong passives/cheap nukes. Or Omega, or Thanos. etc.

The other thing is, you by my understanding basically need to use AP boosts, if you're going to do well. And have the right supports, although that's true for any character.

To me, meta means you can run them in pvp, and people will likely try to avoid them to some degree, and they'll always be preferred in PVE by new players who are building their rosters up. Because they're beating hard nodes and doing it fast (sometimes these are slightly different things so there's sometimes differences in where someone's meta).

I'm not sure Aunt May is someone I'd be pushing towards someone who's in 4 land and developing their 5* roster. She's pretty terrible on defense especially at a lower level. In that sense, to me, she falls below meta status. She's great if you managed to 550 her before, and can chase now in a reasonable timeframe, but not quite high enough to recommend as one of the first 5 or so toons for a newer 5* player.

LavaManLee

@bluewolf said:

@LavaManLee said:

@bluewolf said:
But people with 550s likely have some better 550s than Nova? If not, he’d still be more useful than some others. He’s got a decent amount of synergy with others that use special tiles.

But, but….No 5* character has truly been meta-defining (by design/intent) in over a year, since Omega Red. However many recent ones present decent options when boosted and could be used as 550s in PvP during bad boost weeks.

I would agree that I might not recommend going for Nova as an early 550. But maybe? It depends on partners.

Also the sneak peek (inadvertent as it was) at Agatha suggest you might hold off unhoarding for the current set and using swaps for Nova unless you think you can 550 Agatha as well.

Actually, my unhoarding for Nova works better for Agatha as I have the others at 550 also (Kaine/May/Hotpool). So any 5* I pull for the next two months can go right to Agatha (again, assuming she is next).

Also, I would put 5 AuntMay in the meta-defining for PVE. Clears for PVE have gone down considerably from a time perspective, even when not boosted.

On the one hand, yes, Aunt May is meta. But....she is meta under specific conditions. If she's boosted? yeah, she's who you use in pve, and probably PVP. If you've got her at 550 (or maybe a little under? I'm not sure)....still meta in PVE. Cruising at warp speed, no faster option, maybe not ever. I don't know if 550 folks use her in PVP, she seems too expensive resource-wise to be worth it over other characters who do better under AI control.

I'm sure there's a break level under which where she's not going to be doing enough dmg to run her in PVE over other options like using ascended 3-4 May with a boosted 5 with strong passives/cheap nukes. Or Omega, or Thanos. etc.

The other thing is, you by my understanding basically need to use AP boosts, if you're going to do well. And have the right supports, although that's true for any character.

To me, meta means you can run them in pvp, and people will likely try to avoid them to some degree, and they'll always be preferred in PVE by new players who are building their rosters up. Because they're beating hard nodes and doing it fast (sometimes these are slightly different things so there's sometimes differences in where someone's meta).

I'm not sure Aunt May is someone I'd be pushing towards someone who's in 4 land and developing their 5* roster. She's pretty terrible on defense especially at a lower level. In that sense, to me, she falls below meta status. She's great if you managed to 550 her before, and can chase now in a reasonable timeframe, but not quite high enough to recommend as one of the first 5 or so toons for a newer 5* player.

Nice post but I definitely didn't say she was meta in PVP. Just PVE. I totally agree she isn't meta in PVP at all.

rainkingucd

Fun Fact about Nova: his passive Nova Corps can trigger twice per turn: once for a start of turn passive, and again on the enemy match.

I was getting 2 Nova Corps procs per turn against Polaris and Jane in the Captain America PVP

LavaManLee

After getting him to 550, and of course he is boosted right now, he's not bad. Definitely a niche character, but certainly nowhere near the bottom. I haven't paired him Coulson yet but imagine that would be fun.

bluewolf

Tbh I’ve come around a lot on Nova. As a boosted 5 in pve with Iron May and Deathlok I’m crushing most nodes without trying, and he’s decent in PvP, except he won’t tank much due to the new character boost being much lower than the standard weekly boost.

So I guess that means he’ll be a better choice in PvP when boosted normally during his week vs now. At least for me.

entrailbucket

I'm not gonna say "I told you so."

I think the lesson is what I was saying before -- BCS has tended to release complicated powersets, and those powersets also often have odd wording, important things de-emphasized, or other strange quirks that just make these guys very hard to evaluate on paper.

Personally I've (basically) stopped trying to evaluate before I can get them in game and run 50 or 100 fights with them championed.

(The reason I'm not saying "I told you so" is that I kept missing on all these guys too. It is totally understandable that we make the wrong call on these wordy, bizarre characters on paper. The only lesson here is that we should try to stop doing that.)

bluewolf

I suppose a good lesson here - at least for MPQ - is to try to not let the worst element of something define your opinion of it.

I’m still not a fan of his black but the other parts work well.

Also he benefits from the right supports etc. (Power Stone adds a lot)

rainkingucd

@LavaManLee said:
After getting him to 550, and of course he is boosted right now, he's not bad. Definitely a niche character, but certainly nowhere near the bottom. I haven't paired him Coulson yet but imagine that would be fun.

I have been running the past 2 PVP events with Nova / Coulson and it is great. Power Stone on Nova, Refreshment Cart on Essential, and tons of countdowns constantly generating more AP

LavaManLee

@entrailbucket said:
I'm not gonna say "I told you so."

I think the lesson is what I was saying before -- BCS has tended to release complicated powersets, and those powersets also often have odd wording, important things de-emphasized, or other strange quirks that just make these guys very hard to evaluate on paper.

Personally I've (basically) stopped trying to evaluate before I can get them in game and run 50 or 100 fights with them championed.

(The reason I'm not saying "I told you so" is that I kept missing on all these guys too. It is totally understandable that we make the wrong call on these wordy, bizarre characters on paper. The only lesson here is that we should try to stop doing that.)

I listened to you! :-)

It's why I broke a bit of hoard to get him to 550. And he really is super fun. So, thank you.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'm not gonna say "I told you so."

I think the lesson is what I was saying before -- BCS has tended to release complicated powersets, and those powersets also often have odd wording, important things de-emphasized, or other strange quirks that just make these guys very hard to evaluate on paper.

Personally I've (basically) stopped trying to evaluate before I can get them in game and run 50 or 100 fights with them championed.

(The reason I'm not saying "I told you so" is that I kept missing on all these guys too. It is totally understandable that we make the wrong call on these wordy, bizarre characters on paper. The only lesson here is that we should try to stop doing that.)

I listened to you! :-)

It's why I broke a bit of hoard to get him to 550. And he really is super fun. So, thank you.

Don't make a habit of it, I'll probably be wrong the next time! I'm glad you found something fun though.

Think for yourself, play MPQ how you want, chase the characters you enjoy, and find ways to make the game fun for YOU. Don't let the "meta" or the "community" or the consensus decide for you, and don't let community-contrarians like me decide either.

(Not saying any of that inspirational speech is relevant to you, but maybe this case will be a useful lesson for somebody else someday.)

LavaManLee

I am so enjoying 5Nova. He’s boosted, of course, but he and Hunter are a very fun pair in PvP right now. No boosts needed.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:
I am so enjoying 5Nova. He’s boosted, of course, but he and Hunter are a very fun pair in PvP right now. No boosts needed.

What's the synergy with Hunter?

I've also noticed folks who 550d Nova and aren't using him (probably players who are doing the Latest swaps thing, based on rosters) and...I don't get it. Every time I've had to fight a high level one he's done at least one very unpleasant thing. I'm not sure why they're not using him.

He's actually a pretty decent anti Juggernaut this week -- Juggernaut's passive is going to hit him every turn whether you want to or not, and there's just no good way to deal with his CD spam.