Nova (Tanak Valt) 5*

Codex

@WhiteBomber said:
They mentioned in previous posts that they will no longer be giving feeder info until after the character is released. Is it possible this one isn't 4star Nova?

Why can't they make an educated wish on the feeder?

Bzhai

@bluewolf said:
“There’s no cap to how many turns he can take damage in and use 8ap to score bonus damage based in destroyed ap” is not a strong argument in a game where your goal is matches that end as quickly as possible.

I do realize he has aoe so he could deal in an interesting way with invisible characters…

Need some black ap supports for heroes or pair with a villain?

Still not seeing a strong compelling case over existing characters.

Mate, no one is making an argument that he's the best aside from the narrative inside your head. We're here to discuss the character and any potential teams that might have synergy.

Some of us find theorycrafting and experimenting fun you know. Not everything has to be about the meta or how you think the game should be.

entrailbucket

@Bzhai said:

@bluewolf said:
“There’s no cap to how many turns he can take damage in and use 8ap to score bonus damage based in destroyed ap” is not a strong argument in a game where your goal is matches that end as quickly as possible.

I do realize he has aoe so he could deal in an interesting way with invisible characters…

Need some black ap supports for heroes or pair with a villain?

Still not seeing a strong compelling case over existing characters.

Mate, no one is making an argument that he's the best aside from the narrative inside your head. We're here to discuss the character and any potential teams that might have synergy.

Some of us find theorycrafting and experimenting fun you know. Not everything has to be about the meta or how you think the game should be.

They're right -- it's just not a discussion worth having.

You can evaluate every new character in one of two ways: their relationship to, and place in, the current metagame, or their use in a vacuum/neutral metagame where other characters don't exist.

The problem is that the first discussion is boring -- the strongest characters right now are SO strong that new characters will basically never supplant them. So for almost every character you can post "not good enough!" and be completely correct.

The second discussion is much more interesting -- "can I figure out something fun/strong to use this guy for?" It's also the discussion I'd rather have, but I recognize that it's kind of meaningless ultimately. Whatever cool, fun thing I figure out, it'll never be as good as the good characters, so you're always better off just using the same 3 guys forever.

bluewolf

I am not dismissing 5Nova exactly; not due to "not meta", at least. I just feel like they had to make compromises for their internal power budget to not be exceeded. The fact that his CDs do something if they resolve or if they are destroyed and you can get enough black and that they are passively made when he takes damage, all that probably meant they couldn't make the damage numbers very big if they were reliable.

So they put in RNG to make each effect be able to be bigger because effectively they're all 1/3 as strong in practice, due to unpredictability.

I like making slightly-off teams that work but that also means mostly predictable effects, at least when I'm in control. I'm just looking at his kit and thinking it's going to be frustrating more than fun when instead of damaging the team, you use his black and he heals himself 3x and makes 2 attack tiles.

But, I'm open to being wrong.

LavaManLee

Proof will be in the pudding but he looks 100% forgettable. Absolutely nothing about him screams "must have". I feel like they don't want to accidentally put out 5*s who are overpowered so they err on the side of having super weak ones.

entrailbucket

I'm pretty confident I'll figure out something fun to do with him. I initially missed the passive where he makes a CD tile the first time he gets hit every turn -- that seems pretty powerful.

He makes a lot of CD tiles and special tiles too...seems like a good partner for 4->5 Carol.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:
Proof will be in the pudding but he looks 100% forgettable. Absolutely nothing about him screams "must have". I feel like they don't want to accidentally put out 5*s who are overpowered so they err on the side of having super weak ones.

This is what I was getting at. There's like 3 to 5 characters that are "must have," and if you don't care about variety, they're the only ones you ever need.

If that's your standard it's totally logical and understandable -- even optimal, probably. But new characters that meet your standard will be very, very rare. The bar to clear is so high now that very few will supplant the current best.

Domitronas

@entrailbucket said:
This is what I was getting at. There's like 3 to 5 characters that are "must have," and if you don't care about variety, they're the only ones you ever need.

You can care about variety and still be able to tell that Tanak is objectively bad.

Take for example Shang Chi, he's a center piece of a certain strategy, but he pairs well with like 15 different people for various reasons, at various levels of efficiency - May and Valkyrie for AP generation, Iron May for insane match damage boost, Deathlok for the focus fire, for the board shake and control you have MThor, Onslaught, 5 Magneto, 5 Cyclops, Sersi etc.

Tanak is just not going to have any meaningful impact on any of the existing strategies nor will he be a center to a new strategy. Essentially another dead on arrival 5*.

entrailbucket

@Domitronas said:

@entrailbucket said:
This is what I was getting at. There's like 3 to 5 characters that are "must have," and if you don't care about variety, they're the only ones you ever need.

You can care about variety and still be able to tell that Tanak is objectively bad.

Take for example Shang Chi, he's a center piece of a certain strategy, but he pairs well with like 15 different people for various reasons, at various levels of efficiency - May and Valkyrie for AP generation, Iron May for insane match damage boost, Deathlok for the focus fire, for the board shake and control you have MThor, Onslaught, 5 Magneto, 5 Cyclops, Sersi etc.

Tanak is just not going to have any meaningful impact on any of the existing strategies nor will he be a center to a new strategy. Essentially another dead on arrival 5*.

Are you saying that Agent May, Valkyrie, Iron May, Deathlok, Onslaught, Magneto, Cyclops and Sersi are all "must have" characters?

Domitronas

@entrailbucket said:
Are you saying that Agent May, Valkyrie, Iron May, Deathlok, Onslaught, Magneto, Cyclops and Sersi are all "must have" characters?

I'm saying Shang Chi is, and all of these other characters supplement him in various ways. Tanak is neither "must have" nor will he supplement anyone in any meaningful way. I would be fine with the latter, I don't expect every character to break the meta, and these supplementary characters are usually where all the flavor is anyway. But again, Tanak will not be either of these and that's the only issue I have.

entrailbucket

@Domitronas said:

@entrailbucket said:
Are you saying that Agent May, Valkyrie, Iron May, Deathlok, Onslaught, Magneto, Cyclops and Sersi are all "must have" characters?

I'm saying Shang Chi is, and all of these other characters supplement him in various ways. Tanak is neither "must have" nor will he supplement anyone in any meaningful way. I would be fine with the latter, I don't expect every character to break the meta, and these supplementary characters are usually where all the flavor is anyway. But again, Tanak will not be either of these and that's the only issue I have.

I think it's way, way too early to say that he won't supplement anyone in any meaningful way.

658_2

Idk, I’m not excited to run into this guy at 672, boosted by 4* May with Leapfrog on her. Even at baby champ, the red multi-hit will be very powerful in certain configurations, and then obviously if the black aoe fires it’s a rough match. He doesn’t blow me away, but he’s clearly playable boosted.

People are talking about the meh 5s lately. Have you guys hit 672 Kaine or Hotpool? Those fights suck.

Jinx

Really sucks. I ascended Nova Sunday and they announced Nova 5* on Monday. No rewards for me.

LavaManLee

His biggest issue, IMHO, is that two of his powers are random events. That makes it very hard to know whether to bring him in for PVE/PVP as who knows what his powers are going to do? Could be helpful; could be worthless.

It's the problem with 4* Moon Knight, 5* Wong and others. But at least those randoms happen at the start of the match. Randomness, at least for me, isn't very fun to plan around as, well, you can't really plan around it. You just hope. And hope is a bad strategy for MPQ.

tonypq

Pretty boring stretch of new 5s. Hopefully they end the year with a bang or flip the script and release some really good ones start of 2025. I'm sick of most new 5s only approaching decent levels when boosted and pond slime when not.

GrimSkald

@Jinx said:
Really sucks. I ascended Nova Sunday and they announced Nova 5* on Monday. No rewards for me.

Favorite him and pull.

GrimSkald

@GrimSkald said:

@Jinx said:
Really sucks. I ascended Nova Sunday and they announced Nova 5* on Monday. No rewards for me.

Favorite him and pull.

Also, in general, unless you really think you're going to use the Ascended 4*, don't ascend until you max out both. I did the math a ways back (I can dig it up and find if if you want me to,) even when you're not "double dipping" the rewards for leveling 4*s are better than the rewards for 5 stars at 4:1.

Speaking for myself, particularly since I ended up with a lot of extra roster slots from those amazing vaults months back, I don't even level the 4|5 unless I think I'm going to use them -- I just make a new 4* and level them, particularly if they're a feeder for someone good.

entrailbucket

@658_2 said:
Idk, I’m not excited to run into this guy at 672, boosted by 4* May with Leapfrog on her. Even at baby champ, the red multi-hit will be very powerful in certain configurations, and then obviously if the black aoe fires it’s a rough match. He doesn’t blow me away, but he’s clearly playable boosted.

People are talking about the meh 5s lately. Have you guys hit 672 Kaine or Hotpool? Those fights suck.

It's the same thing every single time. Folks trash the new guy's kit on paper, then when he turns up in game he ends up being just fine.

I fought a 672 Hotpool last event and he downed 2 of my guys from full health in a single turn. I don't even know what he does or how he did it! Kaine is a total nightmare at high levels.

LavaManLee

I agree you sometimes can't tell what they are like at 672. However, 5Nova still has two randoms which would make him not quite as scary to go against. Personally, I didn't have problems with 672 Hotpool or Kaine, but that could just be me.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:
I agree you sometimes can't tell what they are like at 672. However, 5Nova still has two randoms which would make him not quite as scary to go against. Personally, I didn't have problems with 672 Hotpool or Kaine, but that could just be me.

I mean, no offense, but the 3 random outcomes are a pretty decent heal, decent damage, and decent special tiles. What team are you constructing that wants only one of those things, and really really doesn't want any of the others?

Fwiw, when you try to fire his black and it rolls "healing," if he's already at full health the power fails. You're not charged the AP, so you can just fire it again until you get a useful result. They're learning!