Jubilee (Phoenix Force) 5*

GrimSkald

@sinnerjfl said:

@GrimSkald said:
By the first sentence do you mean "who has two 370s?" Because the only way I'm going to level a 370 with another 4* less than 370 is if that character is absolutely critical to the game as a 5* -- so far that hasn't been anyone. Even the week of boosted 4|5 Juggernaut was extremely survivable. You get better rewards by far (by far by far, really, since the 4* rewards are better than the 5* rewards at 1:4 covers) by combining two max Native 4*s.

I want to use the new feature and not wait another 3 years to get the other 4* to 370.

Most of mine were getting there already, and the "favorite" system really does let you advance 4 stars very quickly. I strongly suspect we'll start seeing Ascended 475 Shaws as early as this weekend or next week...
Of course, I've got all the 5*s (with the exception of Aunt May since I haven't started pulling for the current season) fully covered and many of them above 500, so a new 4|5 doesn't have a huge impact on my play.

Timemachinego

@GrimSkald said:

@sinnerjfl said:

@GrimSkald said:

The way they implemented it, they actually can't. The way the retro system works is it goes into the current character rewards structure, pulls all covers and shards, and awards that. There is no reward for level 450, and it appears that they can't reward more than 1800 shards at a time. This is almost as fast as it can possibly be.

And if you only recently ascended that 4* (and they're at 450) then you get nothing, frigging awesome. I was better off not ascending Jubilee a couple of weeks back, how does this make sense?

A week is not enough to get those retro rewards when you need 4 covers per level.

If you "favorite" and pull it can be, depending on how much you pull. But I'd contact CS and see what they say, there's not much else to be done -- this was the system they implemented and without coding up something completely different (which would take exponentially more time,) it's the best they can do. I think they were reasoning that most people would put some additional levels into the dupe.

That's a pretty bad assumption though, especially considering 4s that feed characters that will probably never matter (ironically the best 4s to ascend) or ones that currently don't feed at all. The fact that elder rosters can now hold out and double dip during launch week is incredibly stupid as well, these are players that can 550 new releases back to back to back (sorry allies, granted most of you took advantage of the bugged ascension rewards at launch, but c'mon...) and they really don't need a third leg up.

I was an ardent supporter of BCS at first; they've had so many BIG game-changing ideas that have kept this fresh and interesting but GODS do they need to slow down and think them through better. Pushing through with huge changes without considering the angles is causing them more issues in the long run. I'd much rather we hold off on changes for another month if they could implement them well. If they're play-testing at all they sorely need a wider roster of testers, they seem to fundamentally misunderstand some things.

Scofie

I think the engineering constraints are driving the issue here.

I think the "mistake" was underestimating the backlash from the policy that Ascended characters wouldn't get retro rewards. Once it was clear it would be an issue, they have done the best they can with the tools they have to deal with it.

I don't think any amount of internal testing would have helped.

Timemachinego

@Scofie said:
I think the engineering constraints are driving the issue here.

I think the "mistake" was underestimating the backlash from the policy that Ascended characters wouldn't get retro rewards. Once it was clear it would be an issue, they have done the best they can with the tools they have to deal with it.

I don't think any amount of internal testing would have helped.

Internal testing probably no but internal consideration absolutely yes. Personally, I'm really getting tired of the "tools" excuse. If the code structure of the game can't handle the changes you're making to the point that you can't address any complications (or in many cases, considerations you should have made in the first place) then address that first before you go live!

I realize this is a symptom of modern "always developing" game dev but as an end-user it sucks hard to constantly be at odds with things that SHOULD have been thought about harder in the first place. For the most part folks are flooding CS because what we expect and what we get are varying greatly.

DAZ0273

I like her she's fun. With May and Jubes I feel the 5s are back on track somewhat, not meta or anything but worth having not just to fill a quota.

Waddles_Pines

Can you fire her red if there are no registers repeaters left?

ArchusMonk

@Waddles_Pines said:
Can you fire her red if there are no registers repeaters left?

Yes. I have a 1/1/0, so no repeaters get made but I could fire her red and purple as much as I wanted to.

GrimSkald

@Timemachinego said:

@GrimSkald said:

@sinnerjfl said:

@GrimSkald said:

The way they implemented it, they actually can't. The way the retro system works is it goes into the current character rewards structure, pulls all covers and shards, and awards that. There is no reward for level 450, and it appears that they can't reward more than 1800 shards at a time. This is almost as fast as it can possibly be.

And if you only recently ascended that 4* (and they're at 450) then you get nothing, frigging awesome. I was better off not ascending Jubilee a couple of weeks back, how does this make sense?

A week is not enough to get those retro rewards when you need 4 covers per level.

If you "favorite" and pull it can be, depending on how much you pull. But I'd contact CS and see what they say, there's not much else to be done -- this was the system they implemented and without coding up something completely different (which would take exponentially more time,) it's the best they can do. I think they were reasoning that most people would put some additional levels into the dupe.

That's a pretty bad assumption though, especially considering 4s that feed characters that will probably never matter (ironically the best 4s to ascend) or ones that currently don't feed at all. The fact that elder rosters can now hold out and double dip during launch week is incredibly stupid as well, these are players that can 550 new releases back to back to back (sorry allies, granted most of you took advantage of the bugged ascension rewards at launch, but c'mon...) and they really don't need a third leg up.

I was an ardent supporter of BCS at first; they've had so many BIG game-changing ideas that have kept this fresh and interesting but GODS do they need to slow down and think them through better. Pushing through with huge changes without considering the angles is causing them more issues in the long run. I'd much rather we hold off on changes for another month if they could implement them well. If they're play-testing at all they sorely need a wider roster of testers, they seem to fundamentally misunderstand some things.

Unfortunately, as @Timemachinego points out, whether that's a bad assumption or not it doesn't matter - coding limitations dictate that they have to start the awards at 451 and they have to portion out it no more than 1800 Shards at a time. They could have started with Jubilee rather than Jean (particularly since you can argue that players aren't "owed" any Jean shards at all,) but otherwise they pretty much awarded the first 6 covers as quickly as possible considering the constraints of the system and their desire to mimic the "cover+shards" structure.

As far as double-dipping goes... >shrug.< If they consider it a problem they'll probably do something about it. I'm only going to chase it in so far as I pretty much always favorite the new feeder as soon as I verify who it is to squeeze a few extra levels at start. I accidentally left it on too long this last time (I meant to switch back to Shaw after my dupe was 360, instead I finished her,) and simply decided it would be easier to not ascend her first (I had actually completed three 370/370 characters and didn't do any of them until Thursday evening.) I realized what would happen before I Ascended her (along with the two others,) but I didn't actually plan to double dip.

Going forward if my feeder dupe is high I won't say I won't try to double dip, but I certainly won't dig too deep into hoards for it. I also won't hold off ascending a 370/370 just in case they feed in the future, that's a game I just don't want to play. A day or a week, sure. More than that? Nah, not now that we have assurance of getting at least what we would have gotten normally.

Godzillafan67

Thanks to the event quests, I can see that I've played 21 of June's PvP games. I've lost six of them; five of those due to Play Again?.

DAZ0273

Yeah the AI just downed my whole team with it! I was well on top in the fight too! She is a real wildcard!

Tony_Foot

5 times I’ve been done, sometimes it’s still a win if she’s the last one standing but it’s been annoying when I’ve easily won and that happens. Not to mention I’m denying purple as a priority and she keeps cascading into enough to keep me stunned! Annoying but I’m not sure she needs to be 550 as I was planning.

KGB

Back on page 2 I posted about this. I said this auto-win was for the AI only rather than a useful player strategy. I also mentioned to expect lots of posts about bad beats.

It's beginning...

KGB

LavaManLee

I think she is going to be a huge defensive play in PVP. Getting her at 550 would up her health and make her viable at the highest levels.

DAZ0273

@KGB said:
Back on page 2 I posted about this. I said this auto-win was for the AI only rather than a useful player strategy. I also mentioned to expect lots of posts about bad beats.

It's beginning...

KGB

I pulled off the auto win once and it wasn't by design. I suspect players who can be precious about health packs won't use the strategy heavily.

bluewolf

I hate this pvp. Mostly because of every match being mirrors with 16 locked tiles.

I think she’s pretty good but I hate this.

WilliamK1983

She can toss herself off the sacrificial alter on Vormir and stay in the Soulworld for eternity. Effe you see kay this 5*

Borstock

I guess I've been lucky. AI hasn't hit me with the auto-win yet through around 25 matches.

I did lose a few times because of Wong+Polaris strike tile shenanigans, but that's to be expected when they're boosted at the same time.

Tony_Foot

@LavaManLee said:
I think she is going to be a huge defensive play in PVP. Getting her at 550 would up her health and make her viable at the highest levels.

Yeah but you can do that comfortably with a 1/1/1/ judging by how many times I've not been able to stop her reviving with 20k health for her to either stun lock me or pull off of the insta win or suicide if she's the last one. I really don't think she needs to be above baby champ. I don't see much benefit to taking her to 550.

5 out of 23ish she got me, but sometimes that was still a win. If I was struggling for health packs it would be an issue but I'm not. She could be a pain for those that run on 10.

fight4thedream

@Tony_Foot said:

@LavaManLee said:
I think she is going to be a huge defensive play in PVP. Getting her at 550 would up her health and make her viable at the highest levels.

Yeah but you can do that comfortably with a 1/1/1/ judging by how many times I've not been able to stop her reviving with 20k health for her to either stun lock me or pull off of the insta win or suicide if she's the last one. I really don't think she needs to be above baby champ. I don't see much benefit to taking her to 550.

5 out of 23ish she got me, but sometimes that was still a win. If I was struggling for health packs it would be an issue but I'm not. She could be a pain for those that run on 10.

While I understand where you are coming from, there is a notable disadvantage to keeping her too low: She will make an easy target for Thanos teams and teams with big nukes (high AoE damage). I don't know how viable she will be as a defensive deterrent but I suspect a lot of the early losses are a result of lack of familiarity with how to deal with her.

If she is not paired with another reviver, the overall strategy will be to save her for last and avoid matching her repeaters when possible.

When paired with another reviver, the main options are:

1. whittle the opponent team down until you get them within range of a big nuke to wipe them out in one stroke.

2. Thanos Thrash the weakest link on the team (i.e. whichever character revives with the least amount of health)

3. I do believe Hit-Monkey Red will permanently down an enemy and 4* Doom Ascended to 5* will be another potential counter option. There's also the option to away the whole team with Kang teams. I am probably forgetting someone else, I think.

4. Kamar-Taj will permanently down one once Supports are enabled in PvP.

She certainly puts the puzzle back into Puzzle Quest!

Codex

3. I do believe Hit-Monkey Red will permanently down an enemy and 4* Doom Ascended to 5* will be another potential counter option. There's also the option to away the whole team with Kang teams. I am probably forgetting someone else, I think.

Venomsaurus Rex should work as well, I think. I prefer Rex's kit over hit monkey.