March madness?

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Comments

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,285 Chairperson of the Boards

    @slidecage said:

    @Borstock said:
    What are you saving HP for that's going to be worth more than this vault? Shield hops in PvP? No. Roster slots? They're in the vault.

    I'd pull to zero. I have pulled to zero.

    Like said have funny feeling these vaults will run every 3 months.

    Might be better items

    I’m sure it is no coincidence that the vaults have been run at the end of a financial quarter.

    Especially from a company that just had layoffs a few months ago, that is selling assets to raise cash, that is closing physical locations to save money.

    The problem is these vaults will become less exciting as they repeat. In December it was “holy $&!%, I need to spend NOW to take advantage of this”. If you expect something even every 3 months it becomes less urgent to splurge and you can even strategically plan for it by avoiding spending HP elsewhere.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/remedy-has-taken-back-control-of-the-control-series-from-505-games

    https://80.lv/articles/505-games-shuts-down-its-european-offices-after-losing-control/

  • meadowsweet
    meadowsweet Posts: 236 Tile Toppler

    I didn't have any HP stockpiled ahead of the December vault, but after seeing how good that one was, I started hoarding. Then this March vault came out and I spent it all and emptied the vault out several times.

    If this cycle keeps up, me saving HP, them releasing a great vault, me spending HP to empty the vault every three months, what's the downside? You're talking like I'm going to get sick and tired of great vaults?

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 2,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 8 March 2024, 15:43

    @meadowsweet said:
    I didn't have any HP stockpiled ahead of the December vault, but after seeing how good that one was, I started hoarding. Then this March vault came out and I spent it all and emptied the vault out several times.

    If this cycle keeps up, me saving HP, them releasing a great vault, me spending HP to empty the vault every three months, what's the downside? You're talking like I'm going to get sick and tired of great vaults?

    Could get sick of having 100's of open roster slots 😂

    Really though I don't think they care anymore about 5 stars. It's more about accending people and would not shock me if we could see. 6 star by Xmas

    Are any of the accended people more powerful then a. 550. 5 star

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,002 Chairperson of the Boards

    @slidecage said:

    @meadowsweet said:
    I didn't have any HP stockpiled ahead of the December vault, but after seeing how good that one was, I started hoarding. Then this March vault came out and I spent it all and emptied the vault out several times.

    If this cycle keeps up, me saving HP, them releasing a great vault, me spending HP to empty the vault every three months, what's the downside? You're talking like I'm going to get sick and tired of great vaults?

    Could get sick of having 100's of open roster slots 😂

    Really though I don't think they care anymore about 5 stars. It's more about accending people and would not shock me if we could see. 6 star by Xmas

    Are any of the accended people more powerful then a. 550. 5 star

    I doubt we'll ever see a true 6 star, but I wouldn't be shocked if eventually they make 5 stars ascendable.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,285 Chairperson of the Boards

    @meadowsweet said:
    I didn't have any HP stockpiled ahead of the December vault, but after seeing how good that one was, I started hoarding. Then this March vault came out and I spent it all and emptied the vault out several times.

    If this cycle keeps up, me saving HP, them releasing a great vault, me spending HP to empty the vault every three months, what's the downside? You're talking like I'm going to get sick and tired of great vaults?

    The downside to you is zero.

    The downside to the company if repeatedly offering this is:

    1. Players will begin to anticipate a super vault showing up on a consistent basis, making more standard offers less appealing and possibly reducing cash flow.
    2. When the urgency changes from “this is a possibly annual, or less frequent, occurrence and I need to spend money NOW before it leaves” to “hey if I don’t buy HP now, it’ll come back in a couple months and I can spend then” players will be less likely to break their MPQ budget.
  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 2,976 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf said:

    @slidecage said:

    @Borstock said:
    What are you saving HP for that's going to be worth more than this vault? Shield hops in PvP? No. Roster slots? They're in the vault.

    I'd pull to zero. I have pulled to zero.

    Like said have funny feeling these vaults will run every 3 months.

    Might be better items

    I’m sure it is no coincidence that the vaults have been run at the end of a financial quarter.

    Especially from a company that just had layoffs a few months ago, that is selling assets to raise cash, that is closing physical locations to save money.

    The problem is these vaults will become less exciting as they repeat. In December it was “holy $&!%, I need to spend NOW to take advantage of this”. If you expect something even every 3 months it becomes less urgent to splurge and you can even strategically plan for it by avoiding spending HP elsewhere.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/remedy-has-taken-back-control-of-the-control-series-from-505-games

    https://80.lv/articles/505-games-shuts-down-its-european-offices-after-losing-control/

    If they are hurting for cash. Then put the 20 buck 1 stars back for sale :smiley:

    Hell even sell them in 4 packs for 75. I think I would buy them

  • meadowsweet
    meadowsweet Posts: 236 Tile Toppler

    @bluewolf said:

    @meadowsweet said:
    I didn't have any HP stockpiled ahead of the December vault, but after seeing how good that one was, I started hoarding. Then this March vault came out and I spent it all and emptied the vault out several times.

    If this cycle keeps up, me saving HP, them releasing a great vault, me spending HP to empty the vault every three months, what's the downside? You're talking like I'm going to get sick and tired of great vaults?

    The downside to you is zero.

    The downside to the company if repeatedly offering this is:

    1. Players will begin to anticipate a super vault showing up on a consistent basis, making more standard offers less appealing and possibly reducing cash flow.
    2. When the urgency changes from “this is a possibly annual, or less frequent, occurrence and I need to spend money NOW before it leaves” to “hey if I don’t buy HP now, it’ll come back in a couple months and I can spend then” players will be less likely to break their MPQ budget.

    Right, but you're just describing the devs needing to do a better managing the in-game economy.

    I'm happy to support the developers who keep working on a game I enjoy playing (I've spent hundreds of dollars in the decade-plus that I've played) but given a choice between "good" deals and "bad" deals, I'm not going to spend my money on the bad.

    I used to buy VIP every 28 days as a "thank you" more than anything, but the prizes just aren't worth $10 to me - the days that are Elite, Heroic, or Mighty tokens or some Iso or a handful of CP - are you kidding me? Or the $100 Mother Lode of Iso - even right now with a 400% bonus for 780k Iso; who in their right mind would spend $100 for something they could earn in a few days or weeks? There's lots of other examples too:

    • 560 HP for 20x 5★ shards
    • $75 for a costume they might give away later
    • $30 for a modest grab bag of tokens & shards

    The game has changed over the years, but it seems like the economics haven't kept pace. I'm assuming they're looking at the data and seeing that very few people are buying these things, but they must be fine with that because they're not lowering the prices or increasing the rewards? But when Ascended 1★ come along for $20 and people go nuts for them (because that saves you months or years of grinding, not days), I view that as players sending the explicit message that they're happy to spend money provided they feel they're getting a good value. And when people laugh in their faces about $100 for Iso, we're telling them that's a bad deal and they need to make us a better offer.

    Or maybe they're just scared to decrease prices / increase rewards now, because everyone who spent money in the past is going to scream until they burst a blood vessel about getting ripped off and demanding retroactive rewards? (Which honestly, I'd be fine with that too...)

  • meadowsweet
    meadowsweet Posts: 236 Tile Toppler

    Madness of March Vault

    • (6,800 HP to buy out vault) / (5x 5★ covers + 1,500x 5★ shards + 2.5x 5★ covers from LL tokens) =
    • 648 HP per 5★ cover (ignoring 4★ covers, roster slots, Iso, etc.)

    Daily Shard Offers

    • 560 HP / 20x 5★ shards =
    • 14,000 HP per 5★ cover (actually far more than that when you factor in that you can only buy one per day because the price increases with each purchase, so you'd have to spread them out over years to get this price)

    So who wants to pay 14,000 HP per cover when you could be paying 95.4% less? Maybe if the Devs increased the shards by a factor of 20 (400 shards for 560 HP) or decreased the cost by a factor of 20 (20 shards for 28 HP) then more people would buy the Daily Shard Offers which drives more spending on Hero Points which drives more revenue to the company?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 4,878 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 8 March 2024, 22:02

    None of these things have any intrinsic value -- there's no independent financial exchange that sells HP futures. MPQ prices can only be evaluated by comparing them to other MPQ prices.

    So the fact that the 560hp offer exists, for example, makes the March vault look like a fantastic deal. If the 560hp offer was, say, 10hp, that'd change the way we evaluate everything else.

    Basically you can't have good deals without having bad deals. It's like asking why stores put items on sale temporarily instead of permanently lowering prices.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,702 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm only amazed they have given away roster slots so freely. For so long we heard how that generated so much revenue. It a few short months I have gone from 400 slots to 500. Over 100 spare slots. A quarter of every roster slot I ever bought in 3300 days.

    That seems a very odd thing to do.

    Can't see these not been a regular occurrence now. I will spend 75k in this vault, wasn't planning too initially but I want more shang and my HP is building fast now I won't have to buy roster slots for 4 years.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 2,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 8 March 2024, 20:30

    @Tony_Foot said:
    I'm only amazed they have given away roster slots so freely. For so long we heard how that generated so much revenue. It a few short months I have gone from 400 slots to 500. Over 100 spare slots. A quarter of every roster slot I ever bought in 3300 days.

    That seems a very odd thing to do.

    Can't see these not been a regular occurrence now. I will spend 75k in this vault, wasn't planning too initially but I want more shang and my HP is building fast now I won't have to buy roster slots for 4 years.

    Well think of it this way if you needed to buy hp

    Would you rather pay x amount for 4 slots (if over 300)

    Or that same amount but now you now buy a 40 pull that has a good chance to get u two or more slots plus 38 other major items

    I know for fact I would pay for hp to pull from vaults like this before I would openn my wallet to buy just slots ( though what sucks I think I did waste around 10k on slots back im nov ,,)

    So I think doing these vaults bring in more money then they were making selling slots

    Two reason right now though won't pay for hp

    1. Got tons of slots
    2. Hopefully they bring the 1 stars for 20 back
    3. Hope for different people come June. (if offer)
  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,124 Chairperson of the Boards

    My personal opinion is that the target market for deals has changed. There is a bit of diversity in it so there are universally good offers like this vault, but they're only good if you have the surplus HP.

    Consider a scenario that isn't unlikely: a newer player has a 5* cover that they need a roster slot for and they have saved 1200 HP. They could spend 1000 on the slot and save 200, or they could get a 10- pack from the vault and hope they get the slot. If they don't, they have the choice to let the cover go or buy some HP for the slot (financial benefit). If they do, they get really happy as they get 9 other things (including possibly covers they need roster slots for). That increases engagement with the game (an important benefit) and possible longer term spending.

    People who have been playing the game for a long as we have (and I'm generalizing) don't buy HP for roster slots because we need to - if we do, we do it because we want other things, such as clearing the March vault one more time. I don't feel the need for multiple roster slots in that vault. I'd rather they were costumes, even (anything but Iso).

    But the vault has enough for everyone, that could incentivise purchase of HP. Other vaults are a bit more niche in terms of audience and some have less value for me personally. Others are great. But it is the diversification of offers to cater for the needs and desires of new players and veterans alike that keep people invested in the game in both senses of the word.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,612 Chairperson of the Boards

    I like to spend to support the game when I can and I have spent more in 2024 than for quite some time - I bought the 6000HP deal because of this vault. I don't want them to run this sort of thing all the time but maybe twice a year with Anniversary would be a good balance.

  • meadowsweet
    meadowsweet Posts: 236 Tile Toppler

    @Scofie said:
    Consider a scenario that isn't unlikely: a newer player has a 5* cover that they need a roster slot for and they have saved 1200 HP. They could spend 1000 on the slot and save 200, or they could get a 10- pack from the vault and hope they get the slot.

    I've been playing for so long that I have no idea how much roster slots cost for new players and at what roster size(s?) they change price - does anyone know the current table of prices?. But I understand the overall point you're making.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 2,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 9 March 2024, 15:37

    @meadowsweet said:

    @Scofie said:
    Consider a scenario that isn't unlikely: a newer player has a 5* cover that they need a roster slot for and they have saved 1200 HP. They could spend 1000 on the slot and save 200, or they could get a 10- pack from the vault and hope they get the slot.

    I've been playing for so long that I have no idea how much roster slots cost for new players and at what roster size(s?) they change price - does anyone know the current table of prices?. But I understand the overall point you're making.

    Isn't it like 100hp for first 10. Then 200.hp per slot
    Then. 300 hp per slot
    Then .500 hp per slot
    Then jumps .1200. at level 300

    What was the 6000hp deal price you was talking about

    I wonder if they caught on they were loosing way too much money selling the 1 stars for 20. I mean max then you get 20k hp it's been since end of Jan since we seen them

    I know I got 100 in my pocket I would give them if they gave me 5 of them . But that would net me 100k hp. Just think how much they would lose

    Isn't 100 price of stalk and you get what 20k..I knew if they would offer these i would spend money to buy items from vault. But with tons of slots open ..I never pay full price just to pull from vault

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 2,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 9 March 2024, 15:34

    Need space breaks lol hell half the time I forget what question trying to answer and I just ramble on

    What makes it worse they keep giving me more pills so expect more weird **** coming from me

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yes I'm sure they're very worried about losing all that revenue from people buying the ascended 1s to 5s.

    Maybe you shouldn't post when you're on your pills.

  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 711 Critical Contributor

    Or stop accepting them and try a different form of pain management. There are other options.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 2,976 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WilliamK1983 said:
    Or stop accepting them and try a different form of pain management. There are other options.

    if so then tell me where cause the only option is to take what they are giving or or another thing of pain management with insurance will cost me 200 per visit and 90 per visit for therypy what i cant afford (almost **** myself the first time i went and saw the doctor bill 5 mins for 235 bucks... down from 900 if i had no insurance

    then maybe again i should be like the 99% of people in united states and cry and demand disabity and demand the goverment pay for all of my stuff instead of working 10 to 12 hour days