Champions 2.0 Post-launch FAQ and Discussion

entrailbucket

@BlixTheFrog said:
Everyone gets more counters I guess. What is apparent, even more than before, is that the days of all-powerful meta is over. Boost lists will be what’s relevant. Expect Sim to be mucn more diversified.

I think I agree with this, but we're just going to have to see.

Remember we also just had a huge metagame shakeup with the Chasm changes -- there are a TON of moving parts right now and it's going to take time to settle.

These periods of metagame chaos are typically the most fun, because people just try stuff without worrying about what the "best" is. This one might run for awhile too, just because there's SO much chaos.

I have a feeling someone will solve the new metagame eventually though, and we'll end up with a new "best two." It's happened every single time in the past, so there's no reason to think it won't happen this time. I have absolutely no idea who that will be or whether they'll be ascended characters, or anything at all, and neither does anybody else.

MoosePrime

@LHammer said:

@bigjojo04 said:
Isn’t there an icon you can select on your inventory screen for that cover that you can then decide what you want to do with that cover? Or is that what you’re clicking on and it’s not giving you the option to recruit the character again?

No. There is a button which says one of three things depending on your character's situation - Recruit, Add Level, or Train. Normally, if my maxed IM had five reds, a red cover would show Recruit and allow me to start another IM. Now because of my ascended IM, the button for all three colors is "Add Level".

Edit - I guess I should clarify that I'm a filthy Steam user so it's my own fault if my interface doesn't work properly right?

Is there a little star button in the upper right corner?

edit:

greenglove

Um, the ascension button is not showing up on characters I know to be eligible.

StanleyBurrell

@DrClever said:

@Tony_Foot said:
The problem for me is currently if Thor Shang and Emma frost is the meta I can easily work towards having a competitive team to join in. If I'm getting smashed by 475 Winter Soldier, Gwenpool and Venom that's a train I cannot join for years. And if the counter to that 4* now 5* team is Medusa Blob and Polaris I can't do that either.

Sure, but who can?

Only people who have already put in those years and / or the money equivalent.

I agree with this as well. I just don’t agree with 475’s destroying 550’s. Have you seen some of the team ups from ascended characters that are at 550? When they get there they are the 6*’s

DrClever

@entrailbucket said:
I have a feeling ... we'll end up with a new "best two." It's happened every single time in the past,

I have no reason to think you are wrong but I hope this isn't the case, and this change feels like it's more likely to produce a better scenario than anything short of starting over.

LHammer

@MoosePrime said:

Is there a little star button in the upper right corner?

There we go! I did kind of wonder if I was missing something obvious. Thanks!

ArchusMonk

@greenglove said:
Um, the ascension button is not showing up on characters I know to be eligible.

Did you upgrade to R287? If yes, are you accessing the character screen of the Max champed character? The Ascend button only shows on the max champ. Then you click it and the next screen brings up characters you can bind it to.

Borstock

I was going to proceed with caution, but these rewards definitely seem broken as Mephisto's realm. I've been selling off max champs most of my MPQ career, so I only had a very modest number to ascend and somehow ended up with 50 LTs and and like 500 CPs.

So, if these are working as intended, HOLY MOLY! If they aren't, get them while they're hot!

greenglove

@ArchusMonk said:

@greenglove said:
Um, the ascension button is not showing up on characters I know to be eligible.

Did you upgrade to R287? If yes, are you accessing the character screen of the Max champed character? The Ascend button only shows on the max champ. Then you click it and the next screen brings up characters you can bind it to.

Yes, I upgraded both my accounts to R287, and yes I am accessing the character screen of the max champed character. There is no ascend button there.

entrailbucket

@DrClever said:

@entrailbucket said:
I have a feeling ... we'll end up with a new "best two." It's happened every single time in the past,

I have no reason to think you are wrong but I hope this isn't the case, and this change feels like it's more likely to produce a better scenario than anything short of starting over.

Oh I agree 100%! But remember you've got hundreds of top level players, some of them quite experienced at this sort of thing, all gearing up to throw a ton of brainpower at figuring it out.

There's definitely more chaos than there's ever been, short of the first few months of the game (which is GREAT!) but metagames ALWAYS get solved, which is why game designers have to constantly make changes.

Hopefully the solution this time is something besides a "best two" -- the optimal solution is several top teams that all have different advantages against each other.

raber18

Did they just change ascended rewards? My ascended characters all have a mountain of low iso rewards for like first 30 levels or something

Punter1

FYI - with the ascension bug - I think dupe lvl 306 is the switch point for LT rewards for 4s.

If you have a higher dupe then converting today = more LT rewards than waiting (a while) for 2x max 4s. Though you will lose out on ISO & HP

Assumption is that you eventually max your dupe and convert to a 475 5, or use the equivalent covers to get to a 475 after ascension today.

At 306 dupe - you collect 12 LT and 200 CP (4x expectations) for your new 458 ascended 5 + another 4 LT and 100CP going 459>475. total 28 LT equivalent

If you waited on that 306 dupe to max - you collect 6 more LT & 202 CP in 4 rewards, then when ascending to 475 5 get another 13 + 352CP. total 27 LT equivalent

At 305 - the ascension to a 458 5 means you are 3LT worse off and only get 25LT.

Bug temp fixed so this is now irrelevant

Chipster22

@greenglove said:
Um, the ascension button is not showing up on characters I know to be eligible.

When you say the characters are eligible, do you mean you have them at the proper champ levels, or that they are in the current batch of ascendable characters.

Not all characters are ascendable at the start. Of the 1*s, only Ironman, Spiderman, & Storm are live.

ThaRoadWarrior

@entrailbucket said:

@DrClever said:

@entrailbucket said:
I have a feeling ... we'll end up with a new "best two." It's happened every single time in the past,

I have no reason to think you are wrong but I hope this isn't the case, and this change feels like it's more likely to produce a better scenario than anything short of starting over.

Oh I agree 100%! But remember you've got hundreds of top level players, some of them quite experienced at this sort of thing, all gearing up to throw a ton of brainpower at figuring it out.

There's definitely more chaos than there's ever been, short of the first few months of the game (which is GREAT!) but metagames ALWAYS get solved, which is why game designers have to constantly make changes.

Hopefully the solution this time is something besides a "best two" -- the optimal solution is several top teams that all have different advantages against each other.

I feel that once a "best two" is arrived upon, everybody stops looking at options. I would guess there'll be way more than a best two available now if people think about their options a bit. I also think people may have forgotten about some of the counters to old meta characters like Rogue. Like how her damage reduction doesn't help her against attack tiles for instance.

AdeptusRevolt

3 star spiderman only gives 100 iso for ascension levels? That seems really low

ArchusMonk

@raber18 said:
Did they just change ascended rewards? My ascended characters all have a mountain of low iso rewards for like first 30 levels or something

It seems their fix to the champ rewards bug is to make all levels below the Max-Max levels all ISO champ rewards. I guess that’s easier than fixing a bug giving dupe rewards. So that’s 5* Ascended 475 and lower and 4* Ascended 304 and lower and 3* Ascended 191 and lower.

entrailbucket

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DrClever said:

@entrailbucket said:
I have a feeling ... we'll end up with a new "best two." It's happened every single time in the past,

I have no reason to think you are wrong but I hope this isn't the case, and this change feels like it's more likely to produce a better scenario than anything short of starting over.

Oh I agree 100%! But remember you've got hundreds of top level players, some of them quite experienced at this sort of thing, all gearing up to throw a ton of brainpower at figuring it out.

There's definitely more chaos than there's ever been, short of the first few months of the game (which is GREAT!) but metagames ALWAYS get solved, which is why game designers have to constantly make changes.

Hopefully the solution this time is something besides a "best two" -- the optimal solution is several top teams that all have different advantages against each other.

I feel that once a "best two" is arrived upon, everybody stops looking at options. I would guess there'll be way more than a best two available now if people think about their options a bit. I also think people may have forgotten about some of the counters to old meta characters like Rogue. Like how her damage reduction doesn't help her against attack tiles for instance.

It's possible. The problem (and I say this without judgment whatsoever) is...this is a phone game. I've complained about the copycat metagame for years, but, like, you really can't blame MPQ players for asking "who's the best team" and then just levelling up and using that team forever. It's a phone game, it's not chess, or go, and it's not even league of legends. A lot of players don't want it to be a deep strategic experience, and that's ok.

So while you may be right that there may be multiple best options, I don't know that a ton of people will be interested in figuring those out or using them. I'm positive that right now, a whole bunch of high level players are trying all kinds of stuff to work out a crazy combo. When they do, it'll get disseminated through the usual channels, and then we'll see what happens.

Dogface

So this is what I am wondering. I have a level 266 (maxed) 3* Magneto and a level 224 3* Magneto.
I can ascend the maxed one with the 224 one and get a 4* Magneto, but then I'm missing out on the leveling rewards on the 224 one (for example the LT at 227).

It seems to me there are 2 ideal moments to ascend, one where your dupe is 166 unchamped, the other when your dupe is 266 champed. Otherwise you lose out on a lot of leveling rewards

DyingLegend

I think Champ 2.0 was just a way to monetize the newer players

The first lightening deal $3.99 for an Ascended Storm. They probably figured out new players aren't spending a ton on the LT packs and other offers, so target them directly with characters they are using and will want to keep using.

Punter1

@Dogface said:
So this is what I am wondering. I have a level 266 (maxed) 3* Magneto and a level 224 3* Magneto.
I can ascend the maxed one with the 224 one and get a 4* Magneto, but then I'm missing out on the leveling rewards on the 224 one (for example the LT at 227).

It seems to me there are 2 ideal moments to ascend, one where your dupe is 166 unchamped, the other when your dupe is 266 champed. Otherwise you lose out on a lot of leveling rewards

Talking 3s only - the max rewards approach is to level 3 of the 4 required 3 stars to 266. Creating a 303 and 270 4*. You then max the 303 one and ascend to 5 with the 270.

The 4th one any covers spent are not equally converted at the next level, so a portion of the 100 covers required for max 3 #4 are "lost" at a 2/3 ratio and you need to spend in total 69 more covers in the process.