Cage Match 6/1-6/4

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

It seems people play Patch based on what they think happens in a PvP game as opposed to what actually happens in a game.

If you have Patch and Magneto and a game went on for longer than 10 turns it's probably going on too long. You shouldn't even have a game that didn't immediately end when you hit 9g very often. In such a short game damage taken from match 3 dominates your sustainablity and here you're limited by how many colors Patch can match, which is a variable outside of your control unless you purposely choose to have low level featured heroes.

Regen is not good for a long game in PvP, because currently in the PvP game the strongest teams are built on the bomb model. That is, you won't find a strong PvP team that relies on multiple weak attacks since the AI isn't very good with them. Rather they're already centered around something like Thunder Strike, Rage of the Panther, or even a Berserker Rage which is something that will set you irrecoverabily behind if they pulled it off. The only person that doesn't fit this model in the high end is The Punisher, but Judgment is actually strong enough to punch through Patch's regen, and Molotov hoses your sustainability on the 2 other guys that can't regen.

Now since TBTI isn't meaningful in a short game, usually there's no real difference anyway, but if a game went on unexpectedly long and assuming your featured character is actually higher than level 141, having a level 5 TBTI to use when someone died is far more useful than having regen 5 to use when someone died.

But if all you care about is grabbing 9 green and enough red to spam with cmags, patch is absorbing all the damage, so as long as there isn't one of those AoE attacks, you're basically getting out with next to no actual damage

Unknown

vudu3 wrote:

locked wrote:

I have looked through some alliances' rosters (X-Men, Shield, 5DV), looks like most of them have 5/3/5 Patches, but some have 3/5/5 builds, too. Very few have builds with 4s or 5/5/3.

I can't believe you didn't check out Ace of Blades. For shame!

I was being stalked?
I feel unsafe.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

But if all you care about is grabbing 9 green and enough red to spam with cmags, patch is absorbing all the damage, so as long as there isn't one of those AoE attacks, you're basically getting out with next to no actual damage

Let's for the sake of simplicity we'll assume you only match green, red, and blue.

Magneto always have blue over Patch.

If a featured character is sufficiently high he'll take green and red over Patch if he has those colors.

From the character compendium there are 5 characters that do not have red or green as a strong match color (Falcon, Doom, GSBW, BP, The Hood) out of the 20 3*s. There are 7 characters (including Patch) with both green and red as their match colors. So from this we can break down the damage distribution:

5/18 = 27.8% Patch gets green + red
6/18 = 33.3% Patch gets neither green nor red
7/18 = 38.9% Patch gets either green or red

If you work out the math then Patch takes 37% of incoming damage, Magneto + featured takes the other 63% if you only matched green, red, an blue.

The numbers are going to be even more skewed to the other two since the featured character will always have black/purple over Patch too if he's maxed.

If the damage Patch takes is significant enough for regen to matter, you'd just get throttled by your other two non regenerating characters, since they're expected to take almost as much damage as Patch is even in a fairly ideal world where you only match red, green, and blue.

Of course having a low featured hero favors Patch, but if I had a choice between a level 141 IM40, I'd still rather have him over my level 30 one even if he takes 5 colors away from Patch. Now nobody is offering me a level 141 IM40 for free so I might want to use Patch on Heavy Metal, but I'd still prefer to have a higher level IM40.

Unknown

Thanos wrote:

I haven' seen anyone mention a 4/4/5 build. Is there any merit to it? I've always used punisher over patch so i dont have much experience with him. Three in green seems like too little and five in green seems like too much. I would think four in red would still do decent damage. Any thoughts?

Btw, i'm pretty sure She Hulk is next on the list.

I ran 4/4/5 Patch all Season 1 (2nd place finish in group/1st in alliance points), and am running him all Season 2. It's a solid build--green is more mitigable (while still letting you kill OBW by the time you have 9G), and red fires when you need to finish a match/enemy (red is a killstroke at 14, so how often do you actually *need* the strike tiles from it?).

The conventional wisdom is conventional

Arogntbastrd

qtquazar wrote:

Thanos wrote:

I haven' seen anyone mention a 4/4/5 build. Is there any merit to it? I've always used punisher over patch so i dont have much experience with him. Three in green seems like too little and five in green seems like too much. I would think four in red would still do decent damage. Any thoughts?

Btw, i'm pretty sure She Hulk is next on the list.

I ran 4/4/5 Patch all Season 1 (2nd place finish in group/1st in alliance points), and am running him all Season 2. It's a solid build--green is more mitigable (while still letting you kill OBW by the time you have 9G), and red fires when you need to finish a match/enemy (red is a killstroke at 14, so how often do you actually *need* the strike tiles from it?).

The conventional wisdom is conventional

*cough*SPIDERMAN*cough*

Unknown

Arogntbastrd wrote:

qtquazar wrote:

Thanos wrote:

I haven' seen anyone mention a 4/4/5 build. Is there any merit to it? I've always used punisher over patch so i dont have much experience with him. Three in green seems like too little and five in green seems like too much. I would think four in red would still do decent damage. Any thoughts?

Btw, i'm pretty sure She Hulk is next on the list.

I ran 4/4/5 Patch all Season 1 (2nd place finish in group/1st in alliance points), and am running him all Season 2. It's a solid build--green is more mitigable (while still letting you kill OBW by the time you have 9G), and red fires when you need to finish a match/enemy (red is a killstroke at 14, so how often do you actually *need* the strike tiles from it?).

The conventional wisdom is conventional

*cough*SPIDERMAN*cough*

Seriously, do you stalk all my posts just to do this? I'm going to feed you to OTERSEY one of these days.

Arogntbastrd

I have a google alert set up

over_clocked

If Phantron is defending 5 green steadfastly (or rather downplaying 5 yellow), it must be bad for me. On to remove my 4th green right after Cage Match

Why would I want to run Patch if the featured character takes away green/red, period? It's not like I have no other options to field! Ugh.
I fully understand that red needs to be built around, I always knew that before even having a Patch myself, but guess what, 5 green needs to be built around even more. I couldn't care less what happens on defense with my AI team, Patch doesn't deter anyone on defense anyway.
But on offense I want to have a reliable weapon with or without Magneto, not a liability which is 5 green. Seriously who do you ever combo with Patch that has 5 green after Spidey nerf? Mags only? That seems narrow.

Unknown

locked wrote:

If Phantron is defending 5 green steadfastly (or rather downplaying 5 yellow), it must be bad for me. On to remove my 4th green right after Cage Match

Why would I want to run Patch if the featured character takes away green/red, period? It's not like I have no other options to field! Ugh.
I fully understand that red needs to be built around, I always knew that before even having a Patch myself, but guess what, 5 green needs to be built around even more. I couldn't care less what happens on defense with my AI team, Patch doesn't deter anyone on defense anyway.
But on offense I want to have a reliable weapon with or without Magneto, not a liability which is 5 green. Seriously who do you ever combo with Patch that has 5 green after Spidey nerf? Mags only? That seems narrow.

You answered your own dilemma above, IMO. If you have other strong red/green covers to field, why not leave him at 5 green and use him just with Mags? Probably still have a month or two to take advantage of that combo until the mags nerf, and you've got plenty of other covers to rotate in while you respec after that.

/devilsadvocate

Unknown

vudu3 wrote:

locked wrote:

I have looked through some alliances' rosters (X-Men, Shield, 5DV), looks like most of them have 5/3/5 Patches, but some have 3/5/5 builds, too. Very few have builds with 4s or 5/5/3.

I can't believe you didn't check out Ace of Blades. For shame!

Here's Ace of Blades info:

3/5/5: 7
5/3/5: 7
5/5/3: 2
4/4/5: 1
I believe all but one of these was at 141.

Undercovered:
3/1/2: 1
2/3/2: 1
1/1/3: 1

Arogntbastrd

j12601 wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

locked wrote:

I have looked through some alliances' rosters (X-Men, Shield, 5DV), looks like most of them have 5/3/5 Patches, but some have 3/5/5 builds, too. Very few have builds with 4s or 5/5/3.

I can't believe you didn't check out Ace of Blades. For shame!

Here's Ace of Blades info:

3/5/5: 7
5/3/5: 7
5/5/3: 2
4/4/5: 1
I believe all but one of these was at 141.

Undercovered:
3/1/2: 1
2/3/2: 1
1/1/3: 1

In completely unrelated new, ace of blades is now looking for 4 new members



Kidding, kidding relax people. As long as they keep buying boosts and giving their monthly tithe to lord qt's paypal they can stay

morgh

Although my Patch is forced atm at 5/4/4, I would much prefer 5/3/5 which I think noone advocated it's just that I never can get myself to wait until 14 red... that seems like a terribly high number to get - by the time I have 9 green, I have enough blue and red (although below 14) that I can fire Berserker Rage and finish the fight with Magneto...

Unknown

locked wrote:

If Phantron is defending 5 green steadfastly (or rather downplaying 5 yellow), it must be bad for me. On to remove my 4th green right after Cage Match

Why would I want to run Patch if the featured character takes away green/red, period? It's not like I have no other options to field! Ugh.
I fully understand that red needs to be built around, I always knew that before even having a Patch myself, but guess what, 5 green needs to be built around even more. I couldn't care less what happens on defense with my AI team, Patch doesn't deter anyone on defense anyway.
But on offense I want to have a reliable weapon with or without Magneto, not a liability which is 5 green. Seriously who do you ever combo with Patch that has 5 green after Spidey nerf? Mags only? That seems narrow.

People are way too paranoid about the drawback of green. Magneto is probably going to be around for a while in his broken state, but even without him you can go things like:

Use Berserker Rage when you've a purple match available, or when there are fewer than 6 purple available.
Use Berserker Rage when you've a match 5 available.
Berserker Rage followed by Thunder Strike (if Thunder Strike wiped out your own strike tiles, don't worry the other side is already dead at this point from the monster cascade and you got enough green for another Berserker Rage).
Can also do Berserker Rage + 2 Oasis for the same effect.
Berserker Rage + Molotov, or Psylocke's moves.
Berserker Rage + Hulk for Anger.
Berserker Rage on way overpowered level 300+ PvE guys at least allows you to trade hits with them instead of just having a one way beatdown where they do about twice the damage as you every turn with match 3.

Now most of these setup have problems especially in PvP, but Berserker Rage is hardly a 'Magneto or pre nerf Spiderman' only ability, and you still have Magneto right now. Even just the 3000 damage it does on the turn you use it is quite a lot (that's Berserker Rage + 2 chain), and certainly worth risking on someone like The Hood or if an opponent has a dangerous move ready.

Thanos

qtquazar wrote:

Thanos wrote:

I haven' seen anyone mention a 4/4/5 build. Is there any merit to it? I've always used punisher over patch so i dont have much experience with him. Three in green seems like too little and five in green seems like too much. I would think four in red would still do decent damage. Any thoughts?

Btw, i'm pretty sure She Hulk is next on the list.

I ran 4/4/5 Patch all Season 1 (2nd place finish in group/1st in alliance points), and am running him all Season 2. It's a solid build--green is more mitigable (while still letting you kill OBW by the time you have 9G), and red fires when you need to finish a match/enemy (red is a killstroke at 14, so how often do you actually *need* the strike tiles from it?).

The conventional wisdom is conventional

qtquazar, i do hereby declare you my nemesis. Your always in my brackets, i finnished in 3rd behind you in season 1, and now your in my same bracket season 2 and we've been in several pvp brackets. So your secret weapon is a 4/4/5 patch then. who are you pairing him with other than mags? I started testing with both hood and BP, not sure which is a better fit. I like the raw power of BP but the faster AP ramp of hood is also nice. Not sure which way is best... any thoughts?

Unknown

Thanos wrote:

qtquazar, i do hereby declare you my nemesis. Your always in my brackets, i finnished in 3rd behind you in season 1, and now your in my same bracket season 2 and we've been in several pvp brackets.

You two, please go get a room

Unknown

datKrow wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

locked wrote:

I have looked through some alliances' rosters (X-Men, Shield, 5DV), looks like most of them have 5/3/5 Patches, but some have 3/5/5 builds, too. Very few have builds with 4s or 5/5/3.

I can't believe you didn't check out Ace of Blades. For shame!

I was being stalked?
I feel unsafe.

Don't worry, we have a Stalker07 on our side

over_clocked

walkyourpath wrote:

You answered your own dilemma above, IMO. If you have other strong red/green covers to field, why not leave him at 5 green and use him just with Mags? Probably still have a month or two to take advantage of that combo until the mags nerf, and you've got plenty of other covers to rotate in while you respec after that.
/devilsadvocate

While your advice is always invaluable, I don't want to help my own demise when I use 5 green and suddenly am stuck with a bad board, or have a bad board from the beginning and the only thing I have is 9 green. This happens, and this gives me more opportunities to lose on offense, which is not something anyone wants. I don't want to wait for a perfect opportunity to use Rage and lose an always viable red nuke at the same time. If you look at it another way, both 5 green and 5 red limit what and when you can do with Patch, while maxing out the damage. 5 yellow is always viable, OTOH, so it's okay to only max damage in either green/red and lose out on either safety/damage output. I agree that 3/5/5 Patch must look like a nerf edition to 5/3/5 users, but 3/5/5 Patch is more versatile overall.

Phantron,

Use Berserker Rage when you've a purple match available, or when there are fewer than 6 purple available.

severely limited usage, severe risk

Use Berserker Rage when you've a match 5 available.

That 5 match was an env. match in City. Now what?

Berserker Rage followed by Thunder Strike (if Thunder Strike wiped out your own strike tiles, don't worry the other side is already dead at this point from the monster cascade and you got enough green for another Berserker Rage).

too much overlap, needs 12 yellow

Can also do Berserker Rage + 2 Oasis for the same effect.

Desert nodes aren't everywhere

Berserker Rage + Molotov, or Psylocke's moves.

AoE is bad against the Hulk, I'd rather one-shot him, attack tiles users need to make turns to take full advantage of strike tiles, but you are dooming yourself if you make turns after 5 green

Berserker Rage + Hulk for Anger.

doable with any level of Berserker Rage, and much safer at level 3

Berserker Rage on way overpowered level 300+ PvE guys at least allows you to trade hits with them instead of just having a one way beatdown where they do about twice the damage as you every turn with match 3.

I am not you and don't have lvl 300 PvE enemies anymore

kensterr

Careful guys... server didn't update scores for one of my matches, but luckily it did right after the next match. Not sure if we'll have server issues again.

Spoit

kensterr wrote:

Careful guys... server didn't update scores for one of my matches, but luckily it did right after the next match. Not sure if we'll have server issues again.

NOT having server issues would be a suprise

HairyDave

kensterr wrote:

Careful guys... server didn't update scores for one of my matches, but luckily it did right after the next match. Not sure if we'll have server issues again.

Yeah I got that too on the first two matches I played - got the progression rewards fine - and then everything sorted itself out again after the third.