New Supports Experience Blog

Bowgentle

"Players just want to have fun with meta teams, which is not what this game is about!"

ViralCore

let's not forget that starting a match with ap from supports is based on chance... except the ai will have 100% while the player has the advertised percentage...

Codex

@ViralCore said:
let's not forget that starting a match with ap from supports is based on chance... except the ai will have 100% while the player has the advertised percentage...

I think maybe have inadvertently found the dev's solution, to the ap generating supports. Just reduce their percentage on defense. Cap it at 10% at 5*

I think this way they don't focus all their efforts towards balancing older supports and they can create new support with interesting mechanics.

Yepyep

It's possible they could limit the amount of AP gain between boosts and supports to, say, 6. I thought I read something in one of the devs' comments alluding to this but i don't remember what it was, exactly.

They could also restrict what supports are permitted in PvP (somewhat analogously to how teamups are restricted -- only certain characters and powers can be donated). Another possibility would be to have two or three classes of supports -- those for PvE, those for PvP, and hybrids.

It just isn't realistic to think that someone will be able to use, say, a 5* Sanctum in PvP the same way it's used in PvE.

entrailbucket

If they limit AP generation, honestly, this is all fine.

Even if they don't initially limit AP generation, I really think they're going to have to do it eventually. The fact that it'd stack with boosts just means that some teams/combos would be way too fast on offense, and the AP generating supports would also make certain defensive teams very RNG-dependent.

fight4thedream

@entrailbucket said:
If they limit AP generation, honestly, this is all fine.

Even if they don't initially limit AP generation, I really think they're going to have to do it eventually. The fact that it'd stack with boosts just means that some teams/combos would be way too fast on offense, and the AP generating supports would also make certain defensive teams very RNG-dependent.

This is speculation on my part, but I think the dev team's reluctance to nerf Chasm is in part because they see him as hard counter to the AP generating supports. While his initial stun ability won't stop the AP generation, he will more than likely burn at least two if not three AP from the stunned target team by the end of turn 1.

Additionally, with the Chasm/iHulk revive loop, there aren't that many classic 5* characters equipped to actually down them before they are able to achieve the revive loop. On the other hand, the new generation of 5* seems very much tailor-made to keep that team in check, especially now with the introduction of Kamar-Taj that pretty much guarantees Chasm goes down as long as you focus on him first.

Also, you have Kang who will prevent the AP burn although I don't know if that works while he is stunned. If anyone can chime in on that front, it would be appreciated.

So I think the first iteration will include observations and analysis of how big a dent introducing supports makes into the Chasm/iHulk meta and of course and more importantly if there's a new meta combo team that is benefitting too much from the current support boost.

The one character in particular who I think benefits from the introduction of supports in PvP is Apocalpyse since there are a lot of yellow generating supports and I personally think he has the best yellow ability in the game. I think at least initially he will be the pillar on which a lot players try out different strategies.

I will say though that the Kamar-Taj support definitely has given Wong a boost in value and the art work is really beautiful. The new art team has done some really amazing work!

Bad

Supports granting AP at the start of battle aren't as good as mentioned.
If you played Kang squad, they have a % and there will be lot of times when no support is activated even having 2 granting yellow.
On PvE is easy, just quit it quickly and retry. But on pvp is not so easy option to quit.
On the other hand, a chahulk team doesn't need any AP and the supports chosen for them only will be the ones to make them even more annoying, damaging more or having protects.
So no support will fix an already OP team, imo, chahulk will be everywhere exactly as they are now.

Tony_Foot

@Bad said:

On the other hand, a chahulk team doesn't need any AP and the supports chosen for them only will be the ones to make them even more annoying, damaging more or having protects.

I always use yellow AP on every member of my team when I run Chahulk. I can then heal okoye and gather up more TU AP. I usually start with enough yellow in the bank for at least one yellow ready to fire.

Also if something goes wrong, I just pop onto a trivial node and heal okoye up for free with the yellow AP supports.

Timemachinego

@Bad said:
Supports granting AP at the start of battle aren't as good as mentioned.
If you played Kang squad, they have a % and there will be lot of times when no support is activated even having 2 granting yellow.
On PvE is easy, just quit it quickly and retry. But on pvp is not so easy option to quit.
On the other hand, a chahulk team doesn't need any AP and the supports chosen for them only will be the ones to make them even more annoying, damaging more or having protects.
So no support will fix an already OP team, imo, chahulk will be everywhere exactly as they are now.

Yup, plenty of +ability damage for Hulk and +heal for Chasm.

Borstock

@Bad said:
Supports granting AP at the start of battle aren't as good as mentioned.
If you played Kang squad, they have a % and there will be lot of times when no support is activated even having 2 granting yellow.
On PvE is easy, just quit it quickly and retry. But on pvp is not so easy option to quit.

It is when there are a significant group of players whose main reason for playing PvP is to troll everyone else. I can (but won't) name several players who enjoy nothing more than savagely picking on individual players over and over again. For them, the RNG based built-in retreats will just make it easier for them to dump points and hit you even harder.

entrailbucket

When I'm trying to dump points, it wouldn't matter if supports fire or not -- I start the match and immediately retreat.

I don't think it'd be very good strategy to retreat to someone you're trying to snipe just because your supports didn't trigger. I certainly wouldn't -- it seems counterproductive. By the time you retreat, q them again, and start the second match, they might already have reshielded, with a few bonus points from your retreat.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:
When I'm trying to dump points, it wouldn't matter if supports fire or not -- I start the match and immediately retreat.

I don't think it'd be very good strategy to retreat to someone you're trying to snipe just because your supports didn't trigger. I certainly wouldn't -- it seems counterproductive. By the time you retreat, q them again, and start the second match, they might already have reshielded, with a few bonus points from your retreat.

My comment was primarily based on two assumptions:

1: the person hitting you is coming from below, so the retreat costs them much less than if they re-queue and catch you still out

2: the worst case scenario for supports in PvP where players who choose violence every event can exploit Quicksilver-fast wins to hammer someone on a shield hop

I admit that idk if 2 is true. I can see where supports break PvP. I can see where they don't. It was more of a hypothetical scenario.

entrailbucket

1 probably won't be a thing, unless people are still doing really really long cupcake-eating hops, or your particular snipers are really weird/bad at the game.

2 is absolutely true though. It'll definitely make sniping faster for those matches where the sniper's supports trigger. Of course, your supports will make your hop faster if they trigger, too, so that %chance is going to determine an awful lot on either side.

Bowgentle

1 is still a thing in s1 and s3.
Both the 30 minute "hops" and the bad snipers.
I mean, you know how Beast likes to go for leisurely strolls.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:
1 probably won't be a thing, unless people are still doing really really long cupcake-eating hops, or your particular snipers are really weird/bad at the game.

2 is absolutely true though. It'll definitely make sniping faster for those matches where the sniper's supports trigger. Of course, your supports will make your hop faster if they trigger, too, so that %chance is going to determine an awful lot on either side.

I primarily play in s1. It is VERY a thing.

entrailbucket

Yeah, I'm guessing it's unlikely that the devs will view "unable to trivially score 5000 points per event" as a downside of this.

MrDupaTM

Who cares about supports when passives are out of control. Do something about that then we can start looking into supports, new characters and whatever you like. This game is in a terrible state, and even though it was really bad already when you took over it is currently worse than under previous dev team.

“Hey, look of that power that cost you 9 of x colour, it would be a shame that you never get to fire it cause you’re killed by an auto-power of a busted, terribly designed character”.

HoundofShadow

Some player in reddit mentioned that supports that have true healing have been nerfed by 50%. I don't have access to my account now, so I can't verify it.

Glockoma

Not on my end. Still good on Carol’s Communicator at least

Scofie

@HoundofShadow said:
Some player in reddit mentioned that supports that have true healing have been nerfed by 50%. I don't have access to my account now, so I can't verify it.

That seems to be the side effect of the Mutant affiliation perk on Krakoa firing, not supports in general.