New Supports Experience Blog

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  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 674 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @revskip said:

    @allen_koholic said:
    Welp, this will make PVP more pay to win. I can't wait for a $75 offer that has infinity stones in it.

    That would be an incredible value tbh and I'd buy it no problem. It costs more than a stark for shields to even try for a season finish high enough to earn a stone and then you have the politics of actually getting there to untangle. Not to mention a roster that can handle its MMR well enough to hop that many times. $75 bucks would be really cheap.

    I cannot even imagine the reaction something like this would cause among the crowd who paid hundreds of dollars (or more) in shields and spent innumerable hours politicking (and some time playing, I guess) to win the Infinity Stone supports.

    Shield spender here. I have finished top 5 in a season numerous times at scl7 and now at scl8 where I currently play. But I finish roughly 6-8k points behind first place, so I'm nowhere close to attaining an infinity stone. And I'm ok with that. So I would definitely purchase a stone for $75.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 204 Tile Toppler

    @WilliamK1983 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @revskip said:

    @allen_koholic said:
    Welp, this will make PVP more pay to win. I can't wait for a $75 offer that has infinity stones in it.

    That would be an incredible value tbh and I'd buy it no problem. It costs more than a stark for shields to even try for a season finish high enough to earn a stone and then you have the politics of actually getting there to untangle. Not to mention a roster that can handle its MMR well enough to hop that many times. $75 bucks would be really cheap.

    I cannot even imagine the reaction something like this would cause among the crowd who paid hundreds of dollars (or more) in shields and spent innumerable hours politicking (and some time playing, I guess) to win the Infinity Stone supports.

    Shield spender here. I have finished top 5 in a season numerous times at scl7 and now at scl8 where I currently play. But I finish roughly 6-8k points behind first place, so I'm nowhere close to attaining an infinity stone. And I'm ok with that. So I would definitely purchase a stone for $75.

    I second the purchase of an infinity stone. Awarding the stone for overall season placement is bad way to even issue the stone. Scores across the time slices are uneven and you are forced to play at inconvenient times.

    They should award it by creating a separate placement for shield sim. Have shield sim start at 12hrs after season starts and end 12 hrs before season ends Let all the players duke it out on an even footing.

  • hygge_hound
    hygge_hound Posts: 55 Match Maker

    Just came to check out Hound fawning over this announcement and arguing with anyone who doesn't like it. Was not disappointed.

    This will be a disaster and is a terrible, unnecessary idea of a change. The devs have shown their inability to adequately test every new change they've tried to implement, or to foresee potential negative consequences.

    I hope they DO make Stones purchase-able. The fallout would be HILARIOUS. Certain T1 alliances where they all take turns letting each other win stones by dumping points in their bracket at the end of the season, e.g. That alone would make it all worthwhile.

    But, as someone else said, props to the art of [most of] the new characters they've released and the new Supports. Good job.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,861 Chairperson of the Boards

    I hope the plan is to give out those shard rewards at currently empty slots in the rewards table.
    Like that huge empty dark void between 1000 and 1200 in PVP.
    Please tell me you're not planning on removing CP or 4* or 5* shards from anywhere for the support shards, because that trade-off would suck.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,682 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:

    What does one have to do with the other? I need the 5* boosts to keep PVP fresh. Without the rotating boosts people will just land on the same meta duo plus meta supports and run it into the ground every event like ever PVP ever before god boosts. I doubt they’re going away.

    It's speculation until we see it in action but I for one do not want god boosts and supports in PVP. So much of this depends on your MMR but I already have sections where I'm struggling against god boosted characters without then adding the skip because they auto generate 6+ AP on turn one.

    Supports would add variety to your targets, no need to have an AOE in your face on turn 1 or 2 from god boosted characters. At that point maybe the best thing to remove would be health packs totally from the game.

    A certain amount of boost has on occasion given me more variety but when you get 10 like the last couple of weeks it's been a complete slog.

    All things considered how we currently sit, I'd be playing less variety because if supports went into pvp tomorrow I'd be using Shang turn one combo every single fight with my supports. I only ever see this working if PVP became pick one 5* max per fight. Other than that they will spend their lives trying to plug all the holes the user base find.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,353 Chairperson of the Boards

    Alright, after getting away from the initial shock of this PvP stuff I went back and digested the blog post, and there are many things to be happy about.

    Upgrading supports finally after all these years.

    Character based supports are going away. I know it's just "flavor" but it always felt strange to have a character as a support, and even more so once those characters were released in the game.

    One thing that caught my eye was "Current Supports typically target a specific character or a huge affiliation group (Heroes & Villains); this felt pretty limiting." So maybe hopefully those character specific supports for Black Panther and Iron Man will get more interactions.

    I like how the direction for supports affiliation based synergies. It makes the supports more thematically important and relevant.

    Stuff I'm not sure about.
    PvP I'm going to reserve judgement for now and just wait and see.
    Old support adjustments. Many are important in PvE and many are completely useless. Hopefully they don't shut down the usefull ones and just bring the less used supports up to par with the higher tier supports.
    Infinity Stones. Hopefully there will be other avenues to obtaining these in the near future.

    So overall lots of good and some bad/not sure yet.

  • bahamut685
    bahamut685 Posts: 210 Tile Toppler

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Supports are places or non-humans in the future. I doubt Chasm can stun non-characters.

    It's like you're 100% oblivious to the state of the game...
    Chasm doesn't have to follow any rules.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 570 Critical Contributor

    "Not ruling it out" is almost the complete opposite of "we have definite plans to do so in the near future."

    @revskip said:
    Interesting changes if implemented correctly and with a lot of testing ahead of launch. Like A LOT OF TESTING. Which traditionally has not always been a strength for either developer. With the limited info we have I'm definitely not with the pitchforks crowd but do have some apprehension. Did I mention testing?

    I honestly think that with the expinential increase in complexity this brings they won't be able to test thoroughly enough - that will happen when we get our hands on it.

    Which sounds like a lot of fun to me, but I realise fun isn't what everyone, including some of our most esteemed forumites, is after.

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker

    @DrClever said:

    "Not ruling it out" is almost the complete opposite of "we have definite plans to do so in the near future."

    @revskip said:
    Interesting changes if implemented correctly and with a lot of testing ahead of launch. Like A LOT OF TESTING. Which traditionally has not always been a strength for either developer. With the limited info we have I'm definitely not with the pitchforks crowd but do have some apprehension. Did I mention testing?

    I honestly think that with the expinential increase in complexity this brings they won't be able to test thoroughly enough - that will happen when we get our hands on it.

    Which sounds like a lot of fun to me, but I realise fun isn't what everyone, including some of our most esteemed forumites, is after.

    Some people play for placement, to them working towards and getting the highest tier rewards is fun. This change could potentially disrupt that so it's understandable that they're concerned.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,872 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    @Daredevil217 said:
    If you use something other than Shang, and perhaps use boosted characters yourself, you would > be on “even footing” so to speak. You queue 550 opponents but play your own characters
    boosted to 550, then it’s no different then.

    The problem is that MMR does not currently take into account God Boosts.

    If you and I both have a roster that has say 5 characters at L450 and this week 3 of your characters are God boosted to 550 and none of mine are we are still in the same MMR. At that point I'm trying to use 450s against your 550s.

    God boosts are great for end game players who have lots of champed characters in their tier (3, 4 or 5*) but not great for players trying to break into a tier where they have limited numbers of characters who are champed.

    The new MMR needs to fix this.

    KGB

  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 152 Tile Toppler

    So instead of nerfing chasm, you're releasing supports in pvp that can only be equipped on some of the worse 5*s? While chasm gets to equip supports that reduce damage to him even further?

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,682 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:

    But you’ve always hated god boosts with or without supports in PvP. If you plan to Shang-cheese regardless, variety would seem less important. God boosts just mean more health to chew through and the possibility of taking a larger nuke to the face. If you use something other than Shang, and perhaps use boosted characters yourself, you would be on “even footing” so to speak. You queue 550 opponents but play your own characters boosted to 550, then it’s no different then. A 450 character eating a nuke from a 450 character. The only thing the boosts are preventing is people going all in on a few characters and minmaxing a single cheese team. If I’m the developers, I’m absolutely deincentivizing this by keeping character boosts at all costs. They should incentivize people chasing ALL characters as much as possible.

    I've never liked the boost, everyones experience is different but for me it doesn't really change anything. I still see the same two god boosted for a week. I'd prefer a more balanced game than wading through all that health each match. A game where I don't get to 400 and then nothing but Switch and Collosus for example.

    You are only on an even footing if you have those characters champed. There are many that I don't.

    I also disagree about incentivising collecting them all. That is also one reason why we have no diversity. I've long maintained if the tiers had only provided enough resources to champ say 75% of the characters and you had to choose who you champed and who you skipped it would be a better game. Anyway even without that now they killed the in game economy it's easier to max min and keep up with latest than ever before.

    I wonder how much backing out we see to preserve your health if your AP supports don't put you in a infinite condition from turn 0.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,872 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    @Bowgentle said:

    @KGB said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    If you use something other than Shang, and perhaps use boosted characters yourself, you would > be on “even footing” so to speak. You queue 550 opponents but play your own characters
    boosted to 550, then it’s no different then.

    The problem is that MMR does not currently take into account God Boosts.

    If you and I both have a roster that has say 5 characters at L450 and this week 3 of your characters are God boosted to 550 and none of mine are we are still in the same MMR. At that point I'm trying to use 450s against your 550s.

    God boosts are great for end game players who have lots of champed characters in their tier (3, 4 or 5*) but not great for players trying to break into a tier where they have limited numbers of characters who are champed.

    The new MMR needs to fix this.

    KGB

    Why does it need to fix this?
    Isn't that the point, to give endgame players an advantage?
    Why advance my roster when it doesn't give me an advantage?
    Isn't the guy running god boosts allowed to have fun?
    Maybe the week after the tables will be turned.
    Should god boosted chars only see natural 550s? No, thank you.

    So then the purpose of God boosts is to let you club baby seals?

    All the advantages and fun you speak of you already get in PvE where the opponents are fixed levels based on the CL you select.

    I guess I always thought the purpose of PvP was to match similar teams in the same manner that say Boxing has weight classes, and not let Mike Tyson into the ring with a flyweight so he can have some fun (for him, not so much fun for the flyweight).

    Part of the reason so many players don't play or quit PvP is because they get into this situation where they are being clubbed due to mismatches caused by God boosts. I really hope the new MMR addresses this.

    KGB

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,861 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    Nobody clubs baby seals.
    I get nothing but ColWanda this week.
    I can't speak for the experience of low champed 5s players, but I doubt @Road_Warrior is clubbing seals past 500.
    Maybe don't speak about 5* MMR if you have no experience with it.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 570 Critical Contributor

    Some people play for placement, to them working towards and getting the highest tier rewards is fun. This change could potentially disrupt that so it's understandable that they're concerned.

    I agree with the "getting" part but the "working towards" seems to be what they are keen to avoid.

    On which count they ought to relax, the people that finish on top now will continue to do so after a trivial period of adjustment at worst.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,480 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @Bowgentle said:

    @KGB said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    If you use something other than Shang, and perhaps use boosted characters yourself, you would > be on “even footing” so to speak. You queue 550 opponents but play your own characters
    boosted to 550, then it’s no different then.

    The problem is that MMR does not currently take into account God Boosts.

    If you and I both have a roster that has say 5 characters at L450 and this week 3 of your characters are God boosted to 550 and none of mine are we are still in the same MMR. At that point I'm trying to use 450s against your 550s.

    God boosts are great for end game players who have lots of champed characters in their tier (3, 4 or 5*) but not great for players trying to break into a tier where they have limited numbers of characters who are champed.

    The new MMR needs to fix this.

    KGB

    Why does it need to fix this?
    Isn't that the point, to give endgame players an advantage?
    Why advance my roster when it doesn't give me an advantage?
    Isn't the guy running god boosts allowed to have fun?
    Maybe the week after the tables will be turned.
    Should god boosted chars only see natural 550s? No, thank you.

    So then the purpose of God boosts is to let you club baby seals?

    All the advantages and fun you speak of you already get in PvE where the opponents are fixed levels based on the CL you select.

    I guess I always thought the purpose of PvP was to match similar teams in the same manner that say Boxing has weight classes, and not let Mike Tyson into the ring with a flyweight so he can have some fun (for him, not so much fun for the flyweight).

    Part of the reason so many players don't play or quit PvP is because they get into this situation where they are being clubbed due to mismatches caused by God boosts. I really hope the new MMR addresses this.

    KGB

    Mostly each God boost week is filled with god boost characters to fight against, some weeks are better than others. Boost list starting tomorrow looks pretty good for me. Now I may get some plucky Shang-Cheese and Melinda May character who was able to queue up my boosted 5's (like yesterday!) and stun-lock/cheese a win and then I crush that team on retal. Seems pretty fair? If they don't wanna get crushed then don't attack me! That player has a champed Shang and chose to go the easy stun/cheese route against a boosted 5. It is very rare that I see a non boosted 5 team that isn't Chasm/Jane Thor/Shangers so these are all 5* players like me in my MMR using meta/elite 5's. Likewise if they want to use Polaris against me then thanks! That was their choice! Maybe next week they have a boosted 5 and I am scrabbling around. Sure somebody like @Bowgentle probably has boosted 5's each week but they earned those so should get to enjoy the benefits that come with having a deep roster.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,091 Chairperson of the Boards

    There are definitely weeks were the boost list isn't good enough to defeat the unboosted meta handily still, but one hopes the ongoing tweaks to older characters will make that better.

    I hope that some of the under-served affiliations like Team Iron Man or possibly even GotG can get Membership Badge supports at some point that will allow you to induct other characters into the fold for the purposes of doing cool stuff. Like put Kitty or Nico on the guardians so Rocket can get a jumpstart, or giving literally anyone the team iron man affiliation so he can do anything at all with that power.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 204 Tile Toppler

    @Bowgentle said:
    Nobody clubs baby seals.
    I get nothing but ColWanda this week.
    I can't speak for the experience of low champed 5s players, but I doubt @Road_Warrior is clubbing seals past 500.
    Maybe don't speak about 5* MMR if you have no experience with it.

    I think this depends on slices. In S2 and S5 you are forced to club seals from pretty much from 900 onwards. I also saw maybe two colwanda in she Hulk PvP. Probably due to a late climb on my part.

    Again, just wanted to show the gameplay experience can be different and ppl should not judge