***** Kang (The Conqueror) *****

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  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,479 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @entrailbucket said:

    @dianetics said:

    @GrimSkald said:

    @GrimSkald said:

    @tupacboy said:

    @SourCream said:

    @dianetics said:
    Why would iHulk revive? Chasm isn't in play.

    I don't know, you tell me.
    Anyhow, tried in game and that's how it goes ... as intended ... ? No idea.

    Oyi.... Does this make Kang DOA on solving hulkasm?

    I'd say it isn't DoA, but it isn't quite as quick as you may think it may be. Kang does mitigate Chasm's AP drain (at least I hope so, I haven't confirmed it yet, but it should at the very least get you back the 3 AP you lost last turn if not the 3 Chasm drains this turn,) and you can play tactically with the sent "Away" to prevent either character's tinykittyery for a few turns. An "away" Chasm doesn't create void tiles, for example, and an "away" iHulk doesn't do his AoE. Also, I'm not sure, but downing Chasm while iHulk is "away" may work, since it's not a part of his resurrection condition - someone will have to check that.

    You know what, the LRs are today, what the heck....

    Incidentally, I just did the last node of "Puzzle Gauntlet," I was hunting for a character that creates enemy protect tiles (Venom doesn't work so great, since all the damage is prevented,) and saw my newly-minted 3/3/3 5* Kang and thought "What the heck!"

    Sure enough, sent Sandman away, and the game ended. I suspect they'll add immunity to the "Away" condition to all bosses, though I'll also point out that since it just "wins" the game it might not count the damage you did against the round total - so that might be a limiting factor too.

    Ok, brought Kang and SW into a fight versus ChaHulk and lost (just barely, really, bad luck on Hulk's green and got hit with two of his red,) but it was informative. I learned two things:

    • I'm fairly sure the AP recovery happens after Chasm's AP drain, so it's effective at negating Chasm's most obnoxious power.
    • Neither character's resurrection mechanic is interrupted by the other character being "Away." Both iHulk and Chasm resurrected themselves when I downed them when the other was "Away."

    So this implementation makes him useless i PvP unless this is a bug.

    Again, I wouldn't say "useless" here. He's probably a part of the fastest possible PvE team (I said it several pages ago, and now the PvE scientists are hard at work on it, I'm sure!)

    In PvP, if you bring Kang with some heavy-hitter active power guy, beating the resurrectors gets a lot easier. Also, if PvP ever becomes something besides the All Hulk/Chasm Show, All the Time, Kang would be quite useful. I can't think of any way that could possibly happen though...

    I was referring to him in PvP, because if this is not a bug he is less valuable than Hit Monkey, and the main draw to use him in pvp has no value.
    In PvE he will still be fun and usefull in ultra high health nodes though,

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 580 Critical Contributor
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    @dianetics said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @dianetics said:

    @GrimSkald said:

    @GrimSkald said:

    @tupacboy said:

    @SourCream said:

    @dianetics said:
    Why would iHulk revive? Chasm isn't in play.

    I don't know, you tell me.
    Anyhow, tried in game and that's how it goes ... as intended ... ? No idea.

    Oyi.... Does this make Kang DOA on solving hulkasm?

    I'd say it isn't DoA, but it isn't quite as quick as you may think it may be. Kang does mitigate Chasm's AP drain (at least I hope so, I haven't confirmed it yet, but it should at the very least get you back the 3 AP you lost last turn if not the 3 Chasm drains this turn,) and you can play tactically with the sent "Away" to prevent either character's tinykittyery for a few turns. An "away" Chasm doesn't create void tiles, for example, and an "away" iHulk doesn't do his AoE. Also, I'm not sure, but downing Chasm while iHulk is "away" may work, since it's not a part of his resurrection condition - someone will have to check that.

    You know what, the LRs are today, what the heck....

    Incidentally, I just did the last node of "Puzzle Gauntlet," I was hunting for a character that creates enemy protect tiles (Venom doesn't work so great, since all the damage is prevented,) and saw my newly-minted 3/3/3 5* Kang and thought "What the heck!"

    Sure enough, sent Sandman away, and the game ended. I suspect they'll add immunity to the "Away" condition to all bosses, though I'll also point out that since it just "wins" the game it might not count the damage you did against the round total - so that might be a limiting factor too.

    Ok, brought Kang and SW into a fight versus ChaHulk and lost (just barely, really, bad luck on Hulk's green and got hit with two of his red,) but it was informative. I learned two things:

    • I'm fairly sure the AP recovery happens after Chasm's AP drain, so it's effective at negating Chasm's most obnoxious power.
    • Neither character's resurrection mechanic is interrupted by the other character being "Away." Both iHulk and Chasm resurrected themselves when I downed them when the other was "Away."

    So this implementation makes him useless i PvP unless this is a bug.

    Again, I wouldn't say "useless" here. He's probably a part of the fastest possible PvE team (I said it several pages ago, and now the PvE scientists are hard at work on it, I'm sure!)

    In PvP, if you bring Kang with some heavy-hitter active power guy, beating the resurrectors gets a lot easier. Also, if PvP ever becomes something besides the All Hulk/Chasm Show, All the Time, Kang would be quite useful. I can't think of any way that could possibly happen though...

    I was referring to him in PvP, because if this is not a bug he is less valuable than Hit Monkey, and the main draw to use him in pvp has no value.
    In PvE he will still be fun and usefull in ultra high health nodes though,

    What are you talking about? The main draw to use him in pvp is his anti AP drain. That has not changed.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,606 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If working as intended, his pick-2 value goes down, but his pick-3 value to hunt Immortal teams is still fine if you pair him with the Monkey and a battery. Might want to get those levels up, though.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,479 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The main draw was to essentially down a character for 9 blue ap. The anti ap drain was icing.

    If you are using him in pick 2 who do you pair him with where the anti ap drain has any value?

    Going against ihulk and chasm you are going to eat a huge chunk of damage, and if you bring a damage reducer that has value you will have no nuke or aoe to down them both.

    In pick 3 he will be just another choice

    He will still have value in PvE though.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 580 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2023
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    @dianetics said:
    The main draw was to essentially down a character for 9 blue ap. The anti ap drain was icing.

    If you are using him in pick 2 who do you pair him with where the anti ap drain has any value?

    Going against ihulk and chasm you are going to eat a huge chunk of damage, and if you bring a damage reducer that has value you will have no nuke or aoe to down them both.

    In pick 3 he will be just another choice

    He will still have value in PvE though.

    Shang Chi or Jane both come to mind. Both easily down both revivers and the only thing that holds them back is the AP drain

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,479 Chairperson of the Boards
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    But they both have better partners than Kang…

    So what’s the point of bringing him against iHulk and Chasm? I would rather run SheThor and Shang Chi against them and hope for charged tiles and lucky board shake.
    At least I would lose or win faster.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Fighting chasm on a non mirror match means going all AP boosts and to be lucky matching the strong and second strongest color because of the unstopping drain.
    On pick 2, kang and apocalypse could destroy them without wasting +2 all AP.
    But yeah, on this team it's needed to collect AP like the old times.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 580 Critical Contributor
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    @dianetics said:
    But they both have better partners than Kang…

    Strongly disagree. If their only weakness against Chasm hulk is the ap drain, then there is no better partner for them than Kang

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    HawkEyeball+Kang with Kang’s purple proc at 4 or 5 and Hawkeye’s purple at 5 means you gain 5 blue (and 2 red if you care) when a CD expires.

    2 turns = 10 blue (if you decide not get a blue match or + 1/2 AP boost.)

    There’s a good chance be able to one-shot chasm with Gargantos before he gets amount of chasm tiles he needs on turn 3 or 4 depending the levels of each character.

    But let’s suppose you can’t for some reason.

    Fire Gargantos blue and kill IHulk. Now you’ll have 3 1-turn CDs that can expire and give you 15 blue on 1 turn. 30 on 2 turns.

  • Sp1d3r
    Sp1d3r Posts: 187 Tile Toppler
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    @Tiger_Wong said:

    HawkEyeball+Kang with Kang’s purple proc at 4 or 5 and Hawkeye’s purple at 5 means you gain 5 blue (and 2 red if you care) when a CD expires.

    2 turns = 10 blue (if you decide not get a blue match or + 1/2 AP boost.)

    There’s a good chance be able to one-shot chasm with Gargantos before he gets amount of chasm tiles he needs on turn 3 or 4 depending the levels of each character.

    But let’s suppose you can’t for some reason.

    Fire Gargantos blue and kill IHulk. Now you’ll have 3 1-turn CDs that can expire and give you 15 blue on 1 turn. 30 on 2 turns.

    If u have iron man's recharge its 9 blue ap per tile.. 3 tiles= game over.. did u see the video of this that was shared?

  • Sp1d3r
    Sp1d3r Posts: 187 Tile Toppler
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    @Sp1d3r said:

    @Tiger_Wong said:

    HawkEyeball+Kang with Kang’s purple proc at 4 or 5 and Hawkeye’s purple at 5 means you gain 5 blue (and 2 red if you care) when a CD expires.

    2 turns = 10 blue (if you decide not get a blue match or + 1/2 AP boost.)

    There’s a good chance be able to one-shot chasm with Gargantos before he gets amount of chasm tiles he needs on turn 3 or 4 depending the levels of each character.

    But let’s suppose you can’t for some reason.

    Fire Gargantos blue and kill IHulk. Now you’ll have 3 1-turn CDs that can expire and give you 15 blue on 1 turn. 30 on 2 turns.

    If u have iron man's recharge its 9 blue ap per tile.. 3 tiles= game over.. did u see the video of this that was shared?

    https://streamable.com/nkzc2d if not here it is

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @killahKlown said:

    @dianetics said:
    But they both have better partners than Kang…

    Strongly disagree. If their only weakness against Chasm hulk is the ap drain, then there is no better partner for them than Kang

    sort of. SC without boardshake can stall out pretty easily (which saps him of both damage and healing potential). Kang might help SC keep whatever AP he already has, but in pick 2 I don't think he will help SC get to winfinite very quickly.

    Kang + fosthor seems likely to be strong in terms of offense, but somewhat vulnerable since they both lack any damage mitigation.

  • froggerjohn
    froggerjohn Posts: 373 Mover and Shaker
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    @Sp1d3r said:
    If u have iron man's recharge its 9 blue ap per tile.. 3 tiles= game over.. did u see the video of this that was shared?

    It's a nifty PvE exploit, but IM40 doesn't survive iHulk in PvP.
    Not going to work against Hulkasm.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,095 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Vhailorx said:

    @killahKlown said:

    @dianetics said:
    But they both have better partners than Kang…

    Strongly disagree. If their only weakness against Chasm hulk is the ap drain, then there is no better partner for them than Kang

    sort of. SC without boardshake can stall out pretty easily (which saps him of both damage and healing potential). Kang might help SC keep whatever AP he already has, but in pick 2 I don't think he will help SC get to winfinite very quickly.

    Kang + fosthor seems likely to be strong in terms of offense, but somewhat vulnerable since they both lack any damage mitigation.

    Kang and Thor can't coexist because the Away status depends on having Kang's CD on the board. Thor will blow it up right away.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,095 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @dianetics said:
    But they both have better partners than Kang…

    So what’s the point of bringing him against iHulk and Chasm? I would rather run SheThor and Shang Chi against them and hope for charged tiles and lucky board shake.
    At least I would lose or win faster.

    Yeah, and also every Kang-based counter team that people have talked about here is abysmal on defense. You might as well run Shang-Chi because you'll get absolutely murdered if you run something like Kang and Gargantos or Hawkeye.

  • Sp1d3r
    Sp1d3r Posts: 187 Tile Toppler
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    @Sp1d3r said:

    @Tiger_Wong said:

    HawkEyeball+Kang with Kang’s purple proc at 4 or 5 and Hawkeye’s purple at 5 means you > @froggerjohn said:
    @Sp1d3r said:
    If u have iron man's recharge its 9 blue ap per tile.. 3 tiles= game over.. did u see the video of this that was shared?

    It's a nifty PvE exploit, but IM40 doesn't survive iHulk in PvP.
    Not going to work against Hulkasm.

    No definitely not..

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Aw man what a shame. I thought I figured out something that would’ve solved ALL of your problems in one quick stroke. Oh well. Guess it’s back to whining like a baby.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,095 Chairperson of the Boards
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    You may not consider defense, but everyone else certainly does, which is why the metagame right now is a solid wall of probably the best defensive team ever.

    I don't see Kang changing that, so he's a failure as a counter. Like every other counter character they've ever done, besides SW.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,606 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @killahKlown said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @dianetics said:
    But they both have better partners than Kang…

    So what’s the point of bringing him against iHulk and Chasm? I would rather run SheThor and Shang Chi against them and hope for charged tiles and lucky board shake.
    At least I would lose or win faster.

    Yeah, and also every Kang-based counter team that people have talked about here is abysmal on defense. You might as well run Shang-Chi because you'll get absolutely murdered if you run something like Kang and Gargantos or Hawkeye.

    I never really consider defensive teams. For me it's all about offense and speed. Taking hits doesn't matter

    I'm with you. A counter doesn't need to be good on defense. I'll put out my own Immortal team when I'm done hunting them and live with the retals.

    I hate Chasm, but everything he does that kills the game for me has now been mitigated in pick-3. Pick-2 is still an issue on bad boost weeks, but I'm not miserable anymore.