***** Emma Frost (Phoenix Five) *****

tonypq

Disappointed quite a bit red was changed from buffing match damage to ability power. Still seems like a decent character but I liked her red the way it was originally designed.

Sekilicious

It feels odd to have Emma rostered but not iShulk.

danielrandkai

ammenell said:

LavaManLee said:

I honestly am not understanding how you can go winfinite on Turn 3 reliably with only 3 in red.  I'm assuming you are bringing in boosts and getting favorable boards.  It is easier than one thinks for SC to not have a move that does not bring a Red/Purple match.

you are absolutely right. +1r/y, +1b/p. every single match, no exceptions.
onslaught is my favorite partner, an opening match4 can open up a lot of possibilities. factor in the totally exploitable if/else-opponent who will always take a match4 which can (and will) also result in a board in your favor.

for me, shang brings the puzzle back to the game. can't really watch anything on tv while playing him, but doesn't really matter - I'm here to watch those numbers fly.

If you are using him with boosts every match, then you aren't really leaning into the "puzzling" bit of his style like you think you are. 

CharlieLima

danielrandkai said:

ammenell said:

LavaManLee said:

I honestly am not understanding how you can go winfinite on Turn 3 reliably with only 3 in red.  I'm assuming you are bringing in boosts and getting favorable boards.  It is easier than one thinks for SC to not have a move that does not bring a Red/Purple match.

you are absolutely right. +1r/y, +1b/p. every single match, no exceptions.
onslaught is my favorite partner, an opening match4 can open up a lot of possibilities. factor in the totally exploitable if/else-opponent who will always take a match4 which can (and will) also result in a board in your favor.

for me, shang brings the puzzle back to the game. can't really watch anything on tv while playing him, but doesn't really matter - I'm here to watch those numbers fly.

If you are using him with boosts every match, then you aren't really leaning into the "puzzling" bit of his style like you think you are. 

Technically that’s only an advantage at the start of the game. It’s still puzzling throughout the match depending on the board.

shardwick

CharlieLima said:

danielrandkai said:

ammenell said:

LavaManLee said:

I honestly am not understanding how you can go winfinite on Turn 3 reliably with only 3 in red.  I'm assuming you are bringing in boosts and getting favorable boards.  It is easier than one thinks for SC to not have a move that does not bring a Red/Purple match.

you are absolutely right. +1r/y, +1b/p. every single match, no exceptions.
onslaught is my favorite partner, an opening match4 can open up a lot of possibilities. factor in the totally exploitable if/else-opponent who will always take a match4 which can (and will) also result in a board in your favor.

for me, shang brings the puzzle back to the game. can't really watch anything on tv while playing him, but doesn't really matter - I'm here to watch those numbers fly.

If you are using him with boosts every match, then you aren't really leaning into the "puzzling" bit of his style like you think you are. 

Technically that’s only an advantage at the start of the game. It’s still puzzling throughout the match depending on the board.

Yeah, and anyone that has ever gone in with boosts for America knows how frustrating it can be when the enemy team gets some ridiculous almost never-ending cascade right off the bat and effectively cancels out your boosts.

Vhailorx

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Vhailorx said:

CharlieLima said:

Anyone want to do the math for a Frost/ Okoye damage boost?

Typically only the higher boost applies.

If her boost is coded like Wanda's, they'll stack because it's a % increase and a flat number increase. They gave us that math one time, I want to say the % gets applied, then the numberical bonus gets applied. 

Huh. I tested Wanda with okoye extensively when Wanda launched and never got a clear indication that both boosts were being applied.

ThaRoadWarrior

Vhailorx said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Vhailorx said:

CharlieLima said:

Anyone want to do the math for a Frost/ Okoye damage boost?

Typically only the higher boost applies.

If her boost is coded like Wanda's, they'll stack because it's a % increase and a flat number increase. They gave us that math one time, I want to say the % gets applied, then the numberical bonus gets applied. 

Huh. I tested Wanda with okoye extensively when Wanda launched and never got a clear indication that both boosts were being applied.

It's easier to confirm using Apocalypse since Shared Strength does a flat number. I went into a node using Medusa (lvl 370 entanglement does 1,373 pts), Apocalypse (lvl 460 shared strength adds 9492 damage), and Wanda (lvl 458 Chaos Magic does 5% of that base damage slug multiplied by the additional AP in the bank). So I set chaos magic to yellow, fired shared strength and was left with a single yellow AP. 1,373 X 1.05 =  1,441.65, then add 9,492 to that for a total of 10,933.65 which the game rounded up to 10,934 as expected. So how Chaos Magic seems to stack up is that it does that 5% of the base damage, then multiplies that result by how many AP are in the bank and adds it to the base number. I made another match-3 for a total of 4 damage, and I got the following:
Base damage: 1373
5% of that damage: 68.65
5% X 4: 274.6
total base damage plus total % increase: 1373 + 274.6 = 1647.6
Shared Strength flat boost plus that previous total: 1647.6 + 9492 = 11,139.6 which the game again rounds up. 

So it's a bit odd to tabulate this mentally during play, but essentially this is why % increase powers do more to boost large single hits than they do a high volume of micro-hits the way the flat damage increase powers do. Okoye and Apocalypse's powers operate the same way (and don't stack, you just get whichever is higher), you'll just need to do more of the math on Okoye to verify what's happening.

As for the total math on boosting, I'm not sure if Strikes come into play first before the %, or if they happen at the end and boost the total. It seems like it would be possible to test that; I may try it later. Depending on where they fit into the equation it might make a significant difference if they boost the base slug before the % gets applied.

ThaRoadWarrior

Ok - switched that team out to 4* Rocket/Medusa/Wanda to see where the strikes apply. My Rocket is lvl 352, strikes are doing 238/each with no guardian in play. 

First match ended in an unlucky cascade, so this math is based on 5 active strikes. I used that purple to make Chaos Magic be based on yellow. I have 6 yellow in the bank.

If strikes affect the base damage, it looks like this: 
.05(1373 + 1190) = 128.15
1373 + 6(128.15) = 2141.9

If the strikes add on to the total at the end it looks like this:
1373 + 6(68.85) + 1190= 2,974.9

So I tested it, and it's the second one - the percentage boost is calculated against the actual base slug of damage, and the strikes are tacked on to the end of that. The damage I got rounded up to 2,975. So there you go.

Base Damage + % of Base Damage * N + Discreet # based Boost + Strike Total = Final Damage

Appears to be the equation based on testing with controlled numbers.

ammenell

danielrandkai said:

ammenell said:

LavaManLee said:

I honestly am not understanding how you can go winfinite on Turn 3 reliably with only 3 in red.  I'm assuming you are bringing in boosts and getting favorable boards.  It is easier than one thinks for SC to not have a move that does not bring a Red/Purple match.

you are absolutely right. +1r/y, +1b/p. every single match, no exceptions.
onslaught is my favorite partner, an opening match4 can open up a lot of possibilities. factor in the totally exploitable if/else-opponent who will always take a match4 which can (and will) also result in a board in your favor.

for me, shang brings the puzzle back to the game. can't really watch anything on tv while playing him, but doesn't really matter - I'm here to watch those numbers fly.

If you are using him with boosts every match, then you aren't really leaning into the "puzzling" bit of his style like you think you are. 

oh. thank you for that valuable bit of information.

I did not know that.

danielrandkai

ammenell said:

danielrandkai said:

ammenell said:

LavaManLee said:

I honestly am not understanding how you can go winfinite on Turn 3 reliably with only 3 in red.  I'm assuming you are bringing in boosts and getting favorable boards.  It is easier than one thinks for SC to not have a move that does not bring a Red/Purple match.

you are absolutely right. +1r/y, +1b/p. every single match, no exceptions.
onslaught is my favorite partner, an opening match4 can open up a lot of possibilities. factor in the totally exploitable if/else-opponent who will always take a match4 which can (and will) also result in a board in your favor.

for me, shang brings the puzzle back to the game. can't really watch anything on tv while playing him, but doesn't really matter - I'm here to watch those numbers fly.

If you are using him with boosts every match, then you aren't really leaning into the "puzzling" bit of his style like you think you are. 

oh. thank you for that valuable bit of information.

I did not know that.

You are EVER so welcome. Have the day you deserve.

ammenell

you too - here, have a like.

Xception81

Am I misunderstanding her My Own Best Friend (her blue), or is it a bug? In her PvP, once I fire blue (or have my two 1* characters die because enemy Emma fires her red), she never seems to actually become human again. After the countdown tile disappears, her image does change back to human, but I haven’t been able to fire her other powers after that point. The match damage stuff is handled correctly, but not the active powers. Same thing for the enemy Emma (she never fires another power, but does start taking match damage after the countdown is done). 

One good thing I have verified is that if you stun her and then kill off her teammates, she doesn’t passively turn diamond either at that point or after she comes back from being stunned. Which I wouldn’t expect, but good to verify. 

Druiz23

HoundofShadow said:

Also, she's the first character to take zero match damage in the game, so she's going to hard counter SC and Colossus.

What are you talking about?  What about Elektra’s black power?  Elektra not only takes 0 match damage (and power damage) but she also destroys a trap tile causing damage to the enemy who tried to damage her and generates even more black AP so she can remain “in the shadows.”  And Elektra has been around for years!

HoundofShadow

I've forgotten the existence of 3* and 4* Elektra.  Thanks for reminding me of her existence. I only remember her 5* version. Spider-Woman could do that in a way.

Bzhai

And to be pedantic, she actually takes 1 damage from matches even though her description says 100% reduction. I don't know why that is maybe the way the game is programmed so that match damage never goes below 1. 

HoundofShadow

I noticed that too. I think Kaecilius takes 0 damage? I remember some players used certain teams and Kaecilius took 1 damage. Was it Medusa?

MegaBee

HoundofShadow said:

I noticed that too. I think Kaecilius takes 0 damage? I remember some players used certain teams and Kaecilius took 1 damage. Was it Medusa?

IIRC, 5-star Scarlet Witch's repeater does a single point of damage to Kaecilius.

killahKlown

I'm seeing a bug with her.  After she comes back to human form, she starts taking damage again like she's supposed to but she is still unable to launch other abilities.  So I build up tons of red and purple but can't use any of it fir the remainder of the match. 

Glockoma

I have to say, after using her in champed god mode; she’s a bit flimsy and also a bit of a dud.

I’m not sure if the match damage in lieu of the final product would have been enough to save her. 

Purple is an outright throwaway, especially at 3 covers which is definitely where it should stay.

Others have pointed out the fact that her blue can be overcome with powers, but I will add strong attack tiles work to chip away at her too. (Venom bomb event is a great attestation) It does perform okay in a pinch, but not game-changing.

Red is good and her only saving grace. Right now she’s boosted, so take that for what it’s worth. But even it has drawbacks. 

The increase in ability damage is softly felt. It’s really not impressive, but these are obviously first impressions. The direct damage feels low maybe because it’s her only damage ability.

(EDIT: I did a few rounds with her and Phoenix as she’s my only other P5 and the affiliation boost is definitely more pronounced! I had 16 Red AP and my 473 Phoenix @5 on red cover did ~41k instead of the listed ~19k. Not too shabby! Obviously these two compete on red, but just so it’s out there for you all.)

The main thing, however, is the fact that you have to SELECT 8 tiles. Great in theory, not so much in practice; at least not for pvp or speed. 

I found myself trying to solve the “puzzle within the puzzle” much like I used to with SC, but with nearly twice as many tiles at most times. It can be time consuming to optimize it. I ended up trying to take out a color ala Onslaught for brevity/bang for buck effectiveness.

Low health for what she does all while tanking colors. Playing with her feels like you just keep making match after match avoiding her blue so you can fire her red. Just a weird dynamic. 

I don’t know about this one, but I do like everything else the devs have done thus far.

IrisRyu

The general response to Emm5 seems to be pretty lukewarm, but she snapped me out of my Chasm addiction and I think she’s great!

It’s nice to be able to play with AP again and her cheap match damage negation is highly effective. I’m running her with Electro in Juggs PVP and there have been a few times where the enemy team (almost always boosted Apoc) scores a massive cascade that would prove fatal to anyone else and she just shrugs it off for -6. 

Full disclosure, I don’t have a champed Okoye and while I recognize Apoc’s value, I don’t enjoy playing him. As a result, I have limited play experience with damage boosters. I don’t know if Emma approaches their damage ceilings, but I do know that my boosted 452 Electro’s black is hitting for 167,000 pts with zero red AP. There may be better boosters, but she has zero hoops to jump through, which, for me, is a fair trade-off.

I thought Emma’s purple Mental Block was lame when announced, but it does work in practice. If the enemy somehow has enough AP to fire a power, I’m normally able to launch her purple tile and mitigate the damage.

Agreed that the required 8 tile destruction to fire her red is cumbersome and outside of destroying team-up tiles for Electro, I never use it. Still, her match damage negation, power disruption, stun immunity and power boosting make her a stellar support character in my book!