***** She-Hulk (Immortal) *****

TheRiddler

So I have a couple questions.

Does the revive damage boost only apply to powers or does it apply to match damage as well?

The green power does it proc until I finds x amount of columns with red or green tiles? Or does it just pick x amount of columns and only triggers if there are green or red in those columns?

The red power when they return from being airborne when does that process, immediately or only on your turn? So for example Vulture. If he returns from being airborne will he take that damage immediately or does it wait until your turn to process?

Also with the red power they take a % of their maximum health upon returning from being airborne. Is this at all impacted by the revive boost like a 2.25x increase or does the % stay the same?

LavaManLee

Tony_Foot said:

These threads are much more interesting now the leaks have dried up. You don’t have someone popping in on day one with out of nowhere guesses. Much more interesting. I was sure it was going to be MCU clever hulk, which I would have hated.

Agreed.  Something, somewhere happened so that the people making "guesses" don't actually know anymore.  Though I might miss the days of "Clue: Coffee sure is good" and someone immediately answers "Stilt-Man" and they are right.

Daredevil217

LavaManLee said:

Tony_Foot said:

These threads are much more interesting now the leaks have dried up. You don’t have someone popping in on day one with out of nowhere guesses. Much more interesting. I was sure it was going to be MCU clever hulk, which I would have hated.

Agreed.  Something, somewhere happened so that the people making "guesses" don't actually know anymore.  Though I might miss the days of "Clue: Coffee sure is good" and someone immediately answers "Stilt-Man" and they are right.

You read that Daredevil/Starbucks crossover miniseries too?

Waddles_Pines

fight4thedream said:

Question: Does Immortal Jen's permanent damage increase from "...Makes Me Stronger" also include match damage? 

@fight4thedream
The below is from ice on discord. Dunno if this answers your question.


The damage increase/decrease is all bonus damage. So it's not reflected directly in abilities or match damage. She doesn't start tanking more.

Bad

LavaManLee said:

Agreed.  Something, somewhere happened so that the people making "guesses" don't actually know anymore.  

Coincidentally dataminers losed their powers when the former team took the exit.

Waddles_Pines said:

The below is from ice on discord. Dunno if this answers your question.


The damage increase/decrease is all bonus damage. So it's not reflected directly in abilities or match damage. She doesn't start tanking more.

Now that's really unexpected and it's something new. If all that is "ghostly bonus damage " and she doesn't tanks everything that makes her more flexible for the player to choose when killing her.

amigopdude22

Waddles_Pines said:

The damage increase/decrease is all bonus damage. So it's not reflected directly in abilities or match damage. She doesn't start tanking more.

So it doesn’t actively change her numbers which means her damage gets changed at the damage calculation step meaning she won’t start tanking colors. This may change how she’s ranked pretty significantly. 

If you can’t take advantage of having her out front after dying once or twice, it may not be worth it 

fight4thedream

Waddles_Pines said:

fight4thedream said:

Question: Does Immortal Jen's permanent damage increase from "...Makes Me Stronger" also include match damage? 

@fight4thedream
The below is from ice on discord. Dunno if this answers your question.


The damage increase/decrease is all bonus damage. So it's not reflected directly in abilities or match damage. She doesn't start tanking more.

@Waddles_Pines Thank you! I suspected as much since it wasn't explicitly stated in the ability text but wanted confirmation.

Let's consider what this means in terms of potential partners:

1. Chasm:  This is probably actually a good thing that her match damage doesn't boost as it will allow Chasm to do his thing more smoothly.  You want Chasm generating abyss tiles as much as possible if he is teamed with Jen. 

2. Immortal Hulk: The lack of a match boost is not favorable for this pairing. If I understand the numbers correctly, all things being equal Jen will tank all colors except green. The obvious work around is to have a higher level Jen so she tanks everything. 

As others have pointed out, these zombie teams are not unbeatable although Chasm + Jen/or iHulk will be a frustrating, risky fight (perhaps something akin to *Carnage/BRB). They do put Colossus/Wanda teams in check since you need to down both characters in the same turn which is easiest to accomplish with a well-timed AoE.

Jen/iHulk will be a good team for climbing in PvP. I don't think they will win any prizes for speed but moderately fast as long as the opponent team doesn't have a counter against iHulk green.  If you run that team, you will definitely want to level Jen higher than iHulk so she tanks everything.  However, it is defensively vulnerable to Apocalypse teams. I imagine most people will counter it with Apoc/Wanda, Apoc/BRB, or Shang-Chi and Mighty Thor. 

Jen/Chasm: Will be a much slower team but offers more in terms of defensive value. If you run this team, you will definitely want Chasm to tank as much as possible because his ability to generate special tiles is basically the defensive engine of this team.  Because of his AP drain, it's unlikely you will use Jen's red since it is a 10AP ability, you may be able to use her green ability a couple of times. 

On paper, probably most vulnerable to Apocalypse/BRB, Apocalypse/Wanda, Apocalypse/Thor or Okoye/Thor.  However, the opponent player will need to pay attention to Chasm/Jen health levels to set up the coup de grâce.  Chasm seems like he will be a headache for Shang-Chi users, not unbeatable but the AP drain and special tile spammage will make things more difficult.  I am still not sure how effective a Shang-Chi/Mighty Thor team will be but with a good board they certainly will be able to defeat Chasm/Jen teams. 

TheRiddler

The fact that the damage is bonus damage does change some notions. So that impacts tanking concepts. That means the extra damage has no added effect for charged or critical tiles on matches.

How does this work with strike tiles, boosters like Okoye/Apocalypse?

Also how does this work with damage mitigation like Colossus or Wanda that relate specifically to match damage or power damage?

HoundofShadow

Someone just need to find out the formula for calculating her damage from the dev. Depending on the order of operation, it will also affect ally damage boost like, strike tiles, 2099 or Wanda's.

Using a simple example,
She Hulk's red match-3 is 3204 damage, and her boost is 75% increased damage. There are strike tiles with total strength of 3000 on the board.

Is the order of her damage calculation:

1) (3204*1.75) + 3000 = 8607 damage 
OR

2) (3204+3000) * 1.75 = 10, 857 damage

Add in other damage boosters and damage reduction and you'll probably be confused. Since the formula is run logically, someone get the order of operation  from the dev for calculating damage boost and reduction.

dianetics

Looks pretty interesting. Guess I’m back to hoarding to wait for Jane to fall out of LL. So I can pull for these two and whoever comes after.

Deku_Scrub

Has everyone agreed that chasm is a going to be part of the meta?

Bzhai

BlackBoltRocks said:

Based on the in-game text, there are some tweaks to her powers.

For her Red, when an enemy returns from being airborne, they now take 4%, 5%, 6%, 8%, and 10% at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 covers respectively. There's also a slight decrease in base damage at all cover levels. Shame it still costs 10 AP.

For her Black, it now says she can only be revived a maximum of three times. No mention about her increased damage stacking, but that's probably already assumed given she can only revive thrice.

Not so immortal afterall. With the stacking debuff this makes her the #1 priority in any match. They must have tested it with Chasm and found the revive team too toxic for pvp.

jordanix

I think the update about 'max 3 revives' is enough for me to commit to the Kamala latest legends vault as opposed to waiting for next rotation.

HoundofShadow

Unless you are in some niche situations, like being a 4* player breaking into scl 10 (without SC or Polaris+BRB) and trying to win all nodes using Vulture + ISH as your main, I don't see why you want her to be downed more than 3 times. It's going to take a long while to get the AI to gather aps and then let her eat all the damage to be downed again. On top of that, her damage increment is capped at 3 times.

If I were to play her, I'll use her at 1% to 5% health at the start of the game to get some free board shake the next turn and to disable certain enemy. However, doing this for every match will be tedious.

allen_koholic

Oh noe, she sucks again. \s

Seriously though, this is probably a good change, even if it makes her irrelevant.  The Hulker Twins would have been a “negative play experience” to continually wade through in PVP.

That red passive still has some potential, but only if there’s another character that can reliably send the other team airborne constantly.

Bad

I don't think the enemy will take damage from airborne if it wasn't because she fired him with red.
They had been testing and they saw the potential of the green power for free. 
Still she will be a major health pack saver and she not directly tanking will help the player to avoid the fourth death while crushing with the 3 revives.
It's irrelevant 3 capped downs, nobody on pvp will decide to down her 3 times and to take 3 green powers as a tradeoff.
Her great potential hasn't moved a bit for me.

MoosePrime

The red passive should work for any reason the enemy goes airborne.  I look forward to Vulture killing himself by continually going airborne.

bladewing

With the 3 resurrection cap, my excitement for Immortal She-Hulk has now been severely lowered.  I might not try to champ her, although with my dwindling supply of LLs, it may not even a choice I have to make.

Eirikr56

Bad said:

I don't think the enemy will take damage from airborne if it wasn't because she fired him with red.
They had been testing and they saw the potential of the green power for free. 
Still she will be a major health pack saver and she not directly tanking will help the player to avoid the fourth death while crushing with the 3 revives.
It's irrelevant 3 capped downs, nobody on pvp will decide to down her 3 times and to take 3 green powers as a tradeoff.
Her great potential hasn't moved a bit for me.

Confirmed on discord by Ice that red passive does work regardless of what sent them airborne.

658_2

She Hulk’s “bonus damage” apparently does not work the same way as 2099’s. I just labored through a match with her and Okoye in pvp and Okoye did not boost the bonus damage, so presumably Apoc and SW don’t either. 

She Hulk and Chasm is a pair you should almost never lose a match with offensively, and someone thinking about getting into 5* play should probably be all over the JThor/Chasm/SH trio, but Chasm has many partners he should almost never lose with. For example, he tanks everything but blue on Scarlet Witch. She Hulk’s value in the meta, I think, might almost entirely rely on how much of a scarecrow Chasm/SH is. Having to do that team in one final turn, every time, is going to be a legit pain in the butt. It’s going to have defensive value, but in this time with so many character and pairs having overwhelming offensive value, will *any* team really slow down the hits one takes very much?