***** Chasm (Ben Reilly) *****

Vhailorx

658_2 said:

Yeah, agreed. One thing I should have mentioned, that you allude to, if your opponent is running him correctly at all, it’s not going to be like his 1/1/1 pvp, and you will have to kill him last every time. So, he’s got some defensive value like Strange (used to) for being super annoying, even if his damage doesn’t ultimately shake out to much and the stun is very avoidable.

Btw, with all the match power dominance in the game now, you’ve gotta think a counter to that is on the table, if not high priority for the devs. If you’re 550ing Chasm, given he’s only got one way to do significant damage, I think you’re taking a big risk given he could get his nuts snipped pdq with a powerful counter

Well, colossus already exists as a pretty strong counter to many match damage-based strategies. What other sort of counter would you expect to see? a match-damage reflector? That might be an indirect buff to chasm (as running him at 3 in his green would let you  get down to 80% match damage.  It would also make the older 5*s valuable in a weird way (so long as their health can sustain the incoming damage)

658_2

Yep, a passive reflection power, tied to tanking.

HoundofShadow

Scarlet Witch?

Vhailorx

HoundofShadow said:

Scarlet Witch?

She does flat retaliation damage per damage tick. I was thinking more of a knull-purple style power that takes some % of match damage received and pushes it back at the damage dealer, thus making high-match-damage characters like colossus or SC or chasm a liability.

658_2

Exactly. The Bishop mechanic but done passively. Basically, “If She-Hulk takes 6k match damage in a turn, she deals 200% of the damage she took. This damage can not be reduced.”

KGB

Vhailorx said:

658_2 said:

Yeah, agreed. One thing I should have mentioned, that you allude to, if your opponent is running him correctly at all, it’s not going to be like his 1/1/1 pvp, and you will have to kill him last every time. So, he’s got some defensive value like Strange (used to) for being super annoying, even if his damage doesn’t ultimately shake out to much and the stun is very avoidable.

Btw, with all the match power dominance in the game now, you’ve gotta think a counter to that is on the table, if not high priority for the devs. If you’re 550ing Chasm, given he’s only got one way to do significant damage, I think you’re taking a big risk given he could get his nuts snipped pdq with a powerful counter

Well, colossus already exists as a pretty strong counter to many match damage-based strategies. What other sort of counter would you expect to see?

I've long wanted a character with a passive that does damage every time the opponent steals / destroys your AP. The passive would do X amount of damage per AP stolen/destroyed with X increasing per cover rank.

In addition to being useful against Chasm it would also counter other annoying characters like Hela, 5* Yelena, She-Hulk, Hood, OBW (these always seem to be team-ups for the AI) and so on so would not just be Chasm specific.

KGB

P.S. His PVP was incredibly annoying in 4* land as it was virtually impossible to get AP to fire powers unless you boosted AP and/or got a lot of cascades. Even with web tile teams like Miles I struggled to get 6 AP to fire powers so I can only imagine what he will be like with more covers. I ended up just using +40% match damage boosts and using Colossus and other 5* and just match damaged my way to wins which is very boring.

wymtime

Vhailorx said:

658_2 said:

Yeah, agreed. One thing I should have mentioned, that you allude to, if your opponent is running him correctly at all, it’s not going to be like his 1/1/1 pvp, and you will have to kill him last every time. So, he’s got some defensive value like Strange (used to) for being super annoying, even if his damage doesn’t ultimately shake out to much and the stun is very avoidable.

Btw, with all the match power dominance in the game now, you’ve gotta think a counter to that is on the table, if not high priority for the devs. If you’re 550ing Chasm, given he’s only got one way to do significant damage, I think you’re taking a big risk given he could get his nuts snipped pdq with a powerful counter

Well, colossus already exists as a pretty strong counter to many match damage-based strategies. What other sort of counter would you expect to see? a match-damage reflector? That might be an indirect buff to chasm (as running him at 3 in his green would let you  get down to 80% match damage.  It would also make the older 5*s valuable in a weird way (so long as their health can sustain the incoming damage)

You mean a match damage reflection power like Knull Purple?  Or maybe like like Elektra yellow power?

HoundofShadow

I used Silk and 2099 to see if it could provide defense. I managed to get + 18 defense points from a multi champed 5* player. The moment I switched to SC, I was getting defense losses.

There are a few characters that reflect certain % damage back in different ways:

Bishop: 55% to 225% of damage he's taken for those 3 turns, cd based. (6 red aps).

4* Ghost Rider: 50 to 200% of damage  targeted enemy has dealt this match. (10 black aps)

Ghostpool: 80% to 150% of damage targeted enemy has dealt this match. (6 black aps)

Knull: 20%-33% of targeted enemy's damage back to a random allies of theirs for 5 turns, cd-based. If the targeted enemy is the last AI left, the damage reflection won't work. 9 purple aps.

A passive one that reflects damage and can't be countered like Wanda's repeater or Knull's cds would likely deal a much more smaller % than Knull or Ghostpool. If not, the two other abilities would be "bad". I think 5 to 8% is probably the max they'll go, else it would be pretty broken.

658_2

Knull’s power is bad already (it’s like the old Gambit counters) and Ghostpool is a different category since his black is both cumulative and accounts for powers and not just matches. Would that power I just proposed fall outside acceptable power bands for the old devs? Yeah, they were conservative. New devs…

HoundofShadow

200% is too high and it's passive. It's literally every boosted characters and those in CN match damage. 6k is easily triggered. All other 4* would either be dead or left with <30% hitpoint. That's 12k damage every turn passively. 

The new dev is more daring and they also introduced the first 2x critical multiplier to the game. And we are talking about 5* She Hulk, right?

Vhailorx

HoundofShadow said:

200% is too high and it's passive. It's literally every boosted characters and those in CN match damage. 6k is easily triggered. All other 4* would either be dead or left with <30% hitpoint. That's 12k damage every turn passively. 

The new dev is more daring and they also introduced the first 2x critical multiplier to the game. And we are talking about 5* She Hulk, right?

I think the key question on any damage reflect power is whether or not the damage must be absorbed to register.  The more damage mitigation provided by the power the lower the % of reflection should be.  But even a 20% reflection + 67% or greater damage mitigation would be devastating against SC or anyone else who can do that much damage).

658_2

Hit boosted champed Chasm in pvp. 541 Chasm/540 Okoye. Hit with SC/Carnage so of course I won, but of note, I barely took any damage. That team basically did nothing but annoyingly drain ap.

CharlieLima

658_2 said:

Hit boosted champed Chasm in pvp. 541 Chasm/540 Okoye. Hit with SC/Carnage so of course I won, but of note, I barely took any damage. That team basically did nothing but annoyingly drain ap.

Chasm = 5* The Hood

BlackBoltRocks

@fight4thedream could this thread be put in Character Details? It's currently "buried" in page 3 of General. Thanks!

Vhailorx

Now that Chasm has hit the wild,  anyone have any new thoughts about him when champed?

IrisRyu

Not sure it’s a new thought, but first impressions are that his initial stun is a bit of a gimmick when he’s paired with like covered teammates. After the first two rounds his match damage increase advantage is gone. Paired with a Mighty Thor/Shang-Chi/Colossus, it can be gone after the first match. Without consistently being in front, his Abyss tiles/AP drain aren’t more than a blip. Save him for last and it’s game over.

Where he’s dangerous is when he tanks, significantly, for the whole match. I’m thinking an Okoye/iHulk-level cover spread. If he can flood the board with Abyss tiles, get ready to settle in for a long match. I think he might be most annoying/dangerous with newer 5* players where the cover differential with existing 5*’s could be a bit greater than for vets. I don’t think he’s meta changing, but he’s fun.

Tiger_Wong

Champed Chasm as he entered latest. My thoughts:

at first I ran him at 5/3/5 and teamed him with HawkEyeball and a few others to do a bunch of damage and hold the enemy’s AP down so I can take advantage of his match damage boost. It was really hit and miss and I didn’t understand how to use. But I think I get him now. 

Important Element #1 - Start off the match with a stun and no AP. 

You start the match off with 250% match damage added (or 225 if the green is at 4). Most opponents defensive powers are disabled so this turn (and your next one) become quite important. You want to try to kill the biggest threat (or come as close as possible) in your first 2 turns. With the added match damage bump, my Chasm (lvl 452 currently) top 3 colors hit for 2710 (black), 2410 (purple) and 2100 (green) (and 1310 in TUP). needless to say, in those colors, you’re gonna do big damage to 5*s and most lvl 370 4s can’t withstand a match four or a match with a charged tile. And on those first 2 turns, you’re probably gonna be getting the most damage from the black passive. 

This all means vs Collosus you can take a nice chunk of hp from him off the top and then afterwards give him a finishing blow with a power. And vs 5* ProfX you can nearly kill him on the turn and finish him off on the 2nd (or kill on the first turn with a decent board) 

Important Element #2 - You want him to die and revive (aka tank)

That stun may be 1 turn but it’s the most clutch stun you’ll ever have. Because it can happen on the opponents turn, it halts all their powers. Now, because it destroys all your chasm tiles, it can give the opponent a good chance to get a cascade and that can become a problem with your other characters being damaged and the opponent gaining some AP. But this can be mitigated as I’ll explain later. 

An awesome thing about Chasm is that can injure himself at the end of your turn. So he can die, revive, and stun the opponent, so they skip their turn, and now it’s your turn again. 

This also means, it’s very important to plan out your turn when he revived as there won’t be any chasm tiles on the board. So if you only get a single match in Chasm’s colors, he can get killed on the next turn, and not revive. That’s why I have his purple at 4 now so I’ll need one less Chasm tile to revive. This also why you want to keep your overall AP low by firing your active powers as soon as optimal so when he revives, he tanks like he was at the start of the match because more often than not, when Chasm revives, he’ll tank less colors than he did at the beginning. 

Important Element #3 - his AP mitigation

Chasm is gonna drop the AP of your character’s strongest colors that’s in the front. So if FosThor is in front at the end of your turn, it’s gonna drop their AP in red/yellow/blue by 2/3. Nobody wants that because she fires powers in those colors. So you either want to

a) make sure chasm is in front at the end of the turn
b) have another alternative way to gain AP other than matching while also
c) try to have the other 2 characters on your team have colors that fire that are NOT chasm’s main 3 colors (black/purple/green)

So… after figuring how to use him, the team I’ve fallen in love with has become……

Chasm 4/4/5
FosThor 5/4/4
Crystal 3/5/5

the big defensive meta right now is still Scarlett Steel. The above team rips them to shreds. 

I target Colossus first on turn 1 and 2, cut his hp down to anywhere from a 1/8th to half. Wanda’s repeater is only a problem if a miracle happens and it’s not near a charged tile for FosThor to pop it. If it’s there, that’s fine. Either fire her blue if you got the AP to pop it, or just make sure Chasm tanks the damage from it. With enough AP to fire off FosThor’s cheap red/Crystal’s cheap green, you’ll crush Colossus and then move on to Wanda and time her death with her repeater off the field. 

Most of the time, Scarlett Steel is with Apoc. Here’s why it doesn’t mean jack to the team above.

- putting colossus in front drops his yellow 2 /3 AP each turn, which means no Apoc Shared Strength. 

- And if it happens to get fired you’ll usually have enough charged tiles to pop those repeaters in a turn or two anyway
- Apoc’s red targets the character with the least health. Who’s that gonna be? Usually Chasm, who you want to die anyway. 

“But Tiger Wong! APOC CANT BE STUNNED!”

so? Good for him. How does he stop you from killing Scarlett Steel? He can’t. Sure. If he kills Chasm, the board will shake and he can do a bunch of match damage from the resulting cascade. Which will all be mitigated/healed by Crystal’s yellow passive. So on your turn, Chasm can get back to work of tanking and dropping Apoc’s AP. The only thing you have to fear from this team is if Apoc gets Shared Strength strength out, has a bunch of shields out, and fires his black. This has basically no chance of happening vs the above team. Maybe the team has a TUP with a 5 turn stun or something. 

Chasm is the goods. It just took me a while to figure how to use him. He’s a splashable 3rd to go with, tank, and cover a good offensive duo. I plan on trying to get his level up to among the highest on my roster. 

IrisRyu

Tiger_Wong said:

Champed Chasm as he entered latest. My thoughts:

Chasm is the goods. It just took me a while to figure how to use him. He’s a splashable 3rd to go with, tank, and cover a good offensive duo. I plan on trying to get his level up to among the highest on my roster. 

Loved the thoughtfulness of this post and agree that FosThor/Crystal are amazing with Chasm. My Chasm is only at 271 and is a good 20/30 covers behind those two, but I already see the synergy. I have my MT set at 5/5/3 and Abyss tiles are getting blown up pretty frequently, so between web tiles and Crystal, Chasm is normally healing all over the place. As a result, he doesn’t die that often mid-game. Are you reliably able to get his revive off most games? It seems counterintuitive, but I may have to rethink my FosThor build to slow her down a bit!

I’m with you and am going to try to get as many covers for Chasm as possible.

Thoughts on a Chasm/iHulk/Yellowjacket team when you need to punch up/defense? My iHulk is at 450, but my Yellowjacket is only at 10 covers. I’m wondering if that team would work or if it would be too trolly.

Tiger_Wong

IrisRyu said:

Tiger_Wong said:

Champed Chasm as he entered latest. My thoughts:

Chasm is the goods. It just took me a while to figure how to use him. He’s a splashable 3rd to go with, tank, and cover a good offensive duo. I plan on trying to get his level up to among the highest on my roster. 

Loved the thoughtfulness of this post and agree that FosThor/Crystal are amazing with Chasm. My Chasm is only at 271 and is a good 20/30 covers behind those two, but I already see the synergy. I have my MT set at 5/5/3 and Abyss tiles are getting blown up pretty frequently, so between web tiles and Crystal, Chasm is normally healing all over the place. As a result, he doesn’t die that often mid-game. Are you reliably able to get his revive off most games? It seems counterintuitive, but I may have to rethink my FosThor build to slow her down a bit!

FosThor can blow up Chasm tiles but you create just as many. She can only blow up 1 near a charged tile. You make 2 every match by Chasm. What normally happens is FosThor blows up a chasm tile or two or a web tile or two, but it’ll result into cascade that gives you a match in chasm’s colors and put 2 more chasm tiles or even more.  You only need 3 on the field to revive. 

I can go into matches with Chasm at practically any kind of health. 75%, 35%, 50
%….. it almost doesn’t really matter because at the start of the match, you get 
2 free turns to get 3 chasm tiles on the field and revive. I can darn near plan for a chasm death and board reset when his hp is low enough. 

I haven’t tried Chasm with IHulk/YJ but I may. I was messing around with Electro teams but my electro is about 13 lvls higher than Chasm so she tanks over him earlier in a match than I would like. My YJ otoh isn’t that much higher than Chasm so I might do some labbing with those 2.

IrisRyu

Sorry, but I had to hit you in Simulator to gauge how they that trio does on defense and they are, indeed, annoyingly troublesome. Totally beatable, but definitely not the cake walk that Scarlet Steel are becoming.