***** Elektra (Woman Without Fear) *****

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Comments

  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 547 Critical Contributor
    entrailbucket said:
    I just don't get why anyone feels like they have to defend these characters.  Who cares about someone's subjective evaluation, especially if you think they're wrong? 
    I think some of us are overly concerned that D3's feelings will get hurt by someone pointing out that a character's abilities are badly costed or don't make a lot of sense functionally (a trap user with anti-special spam focus? possibly the literal worst combo).
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    We can compare Elektra this way by going back through the 5*s in the past 2 yrs….but no 2 powers are identical, so this is a rough comparison…

    Red Power: 
    - weaker than Gamora & Killmonger’s Red
    - similar strength to Ronan, Apocalypse, Deadpool, Heimdall & Havok’s Red
    - stronger than Ultron, Odin & Cyclops’ Red
    - BUT….all of the above red powers deal damage instantly and not through a CD tile.  
    - BUT….this is a Red stun, which is rare and most comparable to Deadpool’s Red
    - A cognizant player would play Elektra’s Red at the right moment, when there’s no red matches or just 1 enemy left.  This reduces it’s utility, so I rate this as slightly below average.

    Yellow Power: 
    - Better damage reduction & hitting than Wanda’s repeater, but it requires a small amount of yellow AP to keep it going. This is also much better than Mr Sinister’s damage reduction & trap hits.  This power is great and makes her playable, plus annoying on defense.  

    Purple power & passive: 
    - A unique power to steal specials and much better than Magneto’s or Daken’s powers of converting enemy specials to friendly ones.  Paying 10 purple to switch it from strikes to attacks or protects is not very playable.  It’s a niche power, but can counter the strikes created by Sersi, Ultron, Electro, Knull, Magneto, Daken, Daredevil, OML & some PVE characters as well. 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2022
    entrailbucket said:
    Of course it's subjective!  I can only comment on characters from my perspective, because I don't play the game at any other tier.  That should go without saying though.  Anyone who says a character is trash is saying they're trash *for them*, and they're right.

    This is also why we desperately need regular commenters who aren't elder-game 5* players.
    No offense, but I can imagine what the game is like for players at different stages other than my own, especially when I talk to them everyday in chats or forums. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have zero idea what the game actually plays like for 3* or 4* players.  None whatsoever. 

    I'm loosely in touch with lower tier 5* players sort of, but a lot of them aren't great at explaining what exactly they see.  I can guess but those are guesses.  So much of this stuff is feel.  The players I talk to every day, whose experiences I intuitively understand and share, have most or all of the 5* championed, and everything I say comes from that perspective.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:

    Yellow Power: 
    - Better damage reduction & hitting than Wanda’s repeater, but it requires a small amount of yellow AP to keep it going. This is also much better than Mr Sinister’s damage reduction & trap hits.  This power is great and makes her playable, plus annoying on defense.  



    Is it better than 5SW overall?  it will reduce more damage for the first hit, so it has an advantage in one area for sure. But wanda's power very quickly ramps up to 80% DR and will apply to all incoming damage as long as the repeater survives, where as this DR is never goes above 50% and, without multiple casts, can only defend against 3 damage events. I'm not sure that wanda's is clearly superior at all times, I just don't know that I am comfortable declaring elektra the hands-down winner either. This is definitely the power I want to playtest with the most for elektra.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    Heimdall’s base red is comparable, but it can conditionally do about 60k if you have the right fortifications out. I since he has a self-accelerating power on blue, you can use that to reduce the cost by 3, or to double-accrue the red you need by fortifying a match 3 and then matching it for 6 total red. So it’s high AP cost has a big * at the end in my book.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    I have zero idea what the game actually plays like for 3* or 4* players.  None whatsoever. 

    I'm loosely in touch with lower tier 5* players sort of, but a lot of them aren't great at explaining what exactly they see.  I can guess but those are guesses.  So much of this stuff is feel.  The players I talk to every day, whose experiences I intuitively understand and share, have most or all of the 5* championed, and everything I say comes from that perspective.
    Since restarting, I quickly ran through the 3* and 4* MMR, so I know what that’s like.  I’m now in the 4*/5* MMR, but it’s mostly 5*s I see in PVP.  My alliance is mostly 470 - 520 level players (with everyone champed).  
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    I haven't been a 3* player since 3* were the top of the metagame.  I've spent basically the last 8 years in the top 1-5%, only talking to other players in the top 1-5%.  A lot of others here have similar experience.  (Most other posters here are in the top 5% of all rosters in the game.  If you have more than one champion 5* you definitely are.) 


  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    bbigler said:

    Yellow Power: 
    - Better damage reduction & hitting than Wanda’s repeater, but it requires a small amount of yellow AP to keep it going. This is also much better than Mr Sinister’s damage reduction & trap hits.  This power is great and makes her playable, plus annoying on defense.  



    Is it better than 5SW overall?  it will reduce more damage for the first hit, so it has an advantage in one area for sure. But wanda's power very quickly ramps up to 80% DR and will apply to all incoming damage as long as the repeater survives, where as this DR is never goes above 50% and, without multiple casts, can only defend against 3 damage events. I'm not sure that wanda's is clearly superior at all times, I just don't know that I am comfortable declaring elektra the hands-down winner either. This is definitely the power I want to playtest with the most for elektra.
    I didn’t say Elektra’s yellow was the better power overall - just that the damage reduction & hit was better than Wanda’s - with the downside that you have to keep feeding it yellow.  

    For 1 - 3 consecutive hits, Elektra reduces more damage.  It’s only with 4 or more hits that Wanda does better.  Plus, if the AI is going to fire a power, it is usually the 1st hit of the turn, which Wanda doesn’t reduce. 
    As for damage back, Elektra does 26K for 3 hits compared to Wanda’s 6K.  Even with 4 or more hits, Wanda’s damage doesn’t come close.  
    The 3rd aspect here is how often do these powers work?  Wanda’s is a passive repeater that is always out, unless it gets matched away that turn.  But you don’t need to chase a color to feed it.  On defense, the player knows exactly where it is, so they can target it.  
    Elektra’s trap tiles require steady yellow AP to keep them out all the time.  They could last up to 3 turns, giving you time to match more Yellow.  On defense, the player doesn’t know where they are, so it’s harder to match them away. Because these traps hit so hard, you force them to chase yellow.  
    So which is better?  The passive is free and weaker, but the active requires AP and is stronger.  I guess it depends on your strategy.  Perhaps they are equally good.  There are ways to constantly get yellow, so that could be your winning strategy.  Or just put them both on PVP defense duty.  
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    You could run Valkyrie against her and flood the yellows with strikes to stop the traps. Of course Elektra will steal one of those per turn, but that's kind of trivial i think.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    You could run Valkyrie against her and flood the yellows with strikes to stop the traps. Of course Elektra will steal one of those per turn, but that's kind of trivial i think.
    You discovered their secret design! A counter to her counter.  
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'll be curious to see her in action, if AOE powers were still in vogue like they were before Wanda, I'd say using Electro to stack up that yellow in the background would be a good partner.
  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,253 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I'll be curious to see her in action, if AOE powers were still in vogue like they were before Wanda, I'd say using Electro to stack up that yellow in the background would be a good partner.
    Now I want to try Elektra/Electro/Wanda against Hulkoye teams. Every proc of Hulk's AoE will trigger all 3 of Elektra's traps and generate 5 Yellow AP, allowing you to use Shadow Dance every turn. Setting Wanda's Purple to Yellow is the icing on the cake.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think setting Wanda's purple to yellow isn't that good unless you want to ignore her damage buff. At least for me, I use her purple to buff damage, so I will stack up a lot of aps in that same colour before firing them. Since you would likely to keep firing Elektra's yellow every turn and it will trigger all trap tiles every turn, you won't be able to enjoy the buff.

    If you want for some fun against iHulkoye while waiting for Elektra, you can use Demiurge with them. He will guarantee that everyone takes 1 damage even if Okoye has 30 tu.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wouldn't bother with SW in the Elektra/Electro (that team needs a name, I'm not typing that all day) team.  Your damage reduction will be so high anyway that you're better off bringing an offense-first character.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    She stole R4G tiles at the start of the game.

    Purple is her worst power, even as a passive. I thought it would reduce the strength every turn.


    Substituting Colossus with Electro would be cool to watch against iHulkoye because she helps you to gain 5 yellow aps.
  • Thanos
    Thanos Posts: 722 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:

    Substituting Colossus with Electro would be cool to watch against iHulkoye because she helps you to gain 5 yellow aps.
    Gave it a try, as expected, pretty sick.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    How does her purple interact with Colossus making enemy strikes? Not at all, or does it lift one?
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    How does her purple interact with Colossus making enemy strikes? Not at all, or does it lift one?

    Her power states when THE ENEMY make a strike/protect/attack [default] tile.

    So I imagine it wouldn't work on colossus' cast. Or when say Patch or Sabertooth make enemy specials. 

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