Okoye everywhere

DAZ0273

ammenell said:

one more reason to stay in 4*/5* land.
i don't think I will ever champ my L400 roster

what's your experience overall, is pvp more or less fun now? 

Pick 2 PvP is about the same - it is nice to be able to kill teams fast, especially with Apocalypse. I am going to have to adjust though because I can't float at the points score I used to be able to but it hasn't been an absolute massacre (yet). I do also have the anti-Hulkoye team of Kitty/BRB so that helps a bit also.

SHIELD Sim is an absolute nightmare. I have been assured that it is possible to get to 2000 points with a baby champed 5* roster but the minute I put my head above around 1400 it is absolute battering time for hundreds of points. Rinse & Repeat.

LavaManLee

DAZ0273 said:

 I have been assured that it is possible to get to 2000 points with a baby champed 5* roster but the minute I put my head above around 1400 it is absolute battering time for hundreds of points. Rinse & Repeat.

Not certain who might have told you that but, in my experience, 2000 is not that easy for a majority of players in SIM.  I have 16 champed 5*s (including all meta) and still just play for the 75 wins.  Unless you want to spend on shields, 2000 (though doable) is definitely not easy to accomplish for many players.

HoundofShadow

I find it surprising that you are facing problems at 1400 in shield sim. A lot of players are still sleeping and I think I get 2-3 hit notifications per day? I just checked my floating and it's 15XX. 

DAZ0273

LavaManLee said:

DAZ0273 said:

 I have been assured that it is possible to get to 2000 points with a baby champed 5* roster but the minute I put my head above around 1400 it is absolute battering time for hundreds of points. Rinse & Repeat.

Not certain who might have told you that but, in my experience, 2000 is not that easy for a majority of players in SIM.  I have 16 champed 5*s (including all meta) and still just play for the 75 wins.  Unless you want to spend on shields, 2000 (though doable) is definitely not easy to accomplish for many players.

Having come from a situation where I could get 2000 points if I wanted, it has definitely been an eye-opener. Next Season I will have to get used to playing a set amount of battles per day to spread the wins based approach.

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

I find it surprising that you are facing problems at 1400 in shield sim. A lot of players are still sleeping and I think I get 2-3 hit notifications per day? I just checked my floating and it's 15XX. 

Today has been the best day lately and I woke up to only a 65 point or so loss. The best I achieved before this was getting up above 1500 only to get beaten down into the 1200's. The frustrating thing is that it is not all just losses, there are also defensive wins in there too so I know my team isn't just there to beat on but the defensive wins don't often account for many points indicating that I am being climbed on quite a lot and can't count on being able to float.

I took a heavy hit on Riri's PvP too but I expected that as I went above 500 points early (still more than a day to go at the time) so I think I have things covered there, it is just SHIELD Sim that has thrown me for a loop.

I finished this morning at about 1455 or so points having pulled a bit back, so I will have a look at what happens and whether I am still a juicy target. I don't think I have enough time left to devote to getting the amount of wins needed to 75 but that is OK.

I have noticed a very clear shift of about 200 points downwards to my past expected float point - obviously I have gone from being a smallish fish armed with a machine gun to a minnow armed with a toothpick.

SnowcaTT

DAZ0273 said:

This thread and others make me nervous about champing Okoye, so I have been sitting on the assets that would make this possible.

With multiple vaults and RTF support all recent - I doubt D3 will be nerfing anytime soon (if ever): more people than ever have Okoye 50-ish levels over their next biggest character, it's what everyone has hoarded for/bought for and it's often the only way people are able to compete in PVE/PVP.

Until you have definitive answer - there is almost no reason to not go all in on Okoye, BH okoye. It's all Okoye, all the time, and it's not going to change: might as well go with the flow.

Shoot, who knows what character comes along next that she'll amplify beyond belief. If they ever release an offensive power that costs six or less, look out! Best ability in game would probably be "1 black: deal one damage"

Because Okoye.

ammenell

you guys kidding? 
my highest toons are 400 and shield sim to 2000 is always doable, without shields for me (in the last couple days)

nope, I don't want that smoke. 

Bad

Some points here:
Ive reading many times that its just a problem of MMR. Nice. So what?
The natural behaviour of the player is to climb higher. I want to climb higher, I want to win all the rewards I can. Are you meaning because there is a broken meta I must keep lower fearing hulkoye teams? I dont think so. Saying all its  MMR fault doesnt mean nothing to me. I will keep skipping hulkoye teams until the time I need to gain 75 p and try to crush them quick.

Second,  nodody wants okoye nerfed because is their gold mine. Still is missing the understanting of how this broken couple is damaging pvp in the way that no team is faster and no team involves more risk to hit. Every time any player skips a hulkoye team what is really doing is making stronger hulkoye teams and weaking any other different team.
I understand devs kind of like this broken health pack wasting meta. Still is missing for them the understanding of how many people is ceasing to play or grinding all rewards because of them. 
Or you know,  lets hoard all players for okoye.  And some covers of Ihulk. 

Daredevil217

Bad said:

I understand devs kind of like this broken health pack wasting meta. Still is missing for them the understanding of how many people is ceasing to play or grinding all rewards because of them. 
Or you know,  lets hoard all players for okoye.  And some covers of Ihulk. 

What players stopped playing the game because of Hulkoye?

ThaRoadWarrior

DAZ0273 said:

ammenell said:

one more reason to stay in 4*/5* land.
i don't think I will ever champ my L400 roster

what's your experience overall, is pvp more or less fun now? 

Pick 2 PvP is about the same - it is nice to be able to kill teams fast, especially with Apocalypse. I am going to have to adjust though because I can't float at the points score I used to be able to but it hasn't been an absolute massacre (yet). I do also have the anti-Hulkoye team of Kitty/BRB so that helps a bit also.

SHIELD Sim is an absolute nightmare. I have been assured that it is possible to get to 2000 points with a baby champed 5* roster but the minute I put my head above around 1400 it is absolute battering time for hundreds of points. Rinse & Repeat.

This was definitely my experience in Shield Sim right after transitioning, to the point where I just walked away from it after I got as far as I could. In the end we're talking about a token or two, and a cover or two, so it wasn't the end of the world for me. Now though, I can do it, but I've had to get creative with my teams and when I play. You won't have an easy time of it if you're playing near the end of the season, so I find it's best to find a day with 2-day subs and spend a little time on it then. Right now in pick-3 I like Thano5/Onslaught/Apocalypse, though I totally get that recommending teams of old heads to people that have just transitioned is advice not easily followed. But with that team, I actively chase down Hulk/Okoye/Professor X teams, or any team I see with a 4* on it like Polaris, because with +2 to all colors in the bank and a lucky match 4 up front, you can do a pretty thorough job of killing one of those low-health lynchpin characters (hulk or polaris say) within just a few turns, and it's pretty much game over. If you do it with too low health and lose any of them, it can be a bit of a wash though, so just know you'll be using healthpacks. 

Phumade

Bad said:

Some points here:
Ive reading many times that its just a problem of MMR. Nice. So what?
The natural behaviour of the player is to climb higher. I want to climb higher, I want to win all the rewards I can. Are you meaning because there is a broken meta I must keep lower fearing hulkoye teams? I dont think so. Saying all its  MMR fault doesnt mean nothing to me. I will keep skipping hulkoye teams until the time I need to gain 75 p and try to crush them quick.

Second,  nodody wants okoye nerfed because is their gold mine. Still is missing the understanting of how this broken couple is damaging pvp in the way that no team is faster and no team involves more risk to hit. Every time any player skips a hulkoye team what is really doing is making stronger hulkoye teams and weaking any other different team.
I understand devs kind of like this broken health pack wasting meta. Still is missing for them the understanding of how many people is ceasing to play or grinding all rewards because of them. 
Or you know,  lets hoard all players for okoye.  And some covers of Ihulk. 

There’s actually a quite varied meta to crack okie ihulk combos.  It’s not actually hard at all.  Yes it requires health packs but in the context of T25 placement or top 5%, you should fully expect to burn gold left and right.  Thankfully those players have farms and alliances  that generate enough gold to pay for it all.

so yeah, do the same strategy that most people follow. Que 3-5 75 pt A teams boost and snipe those slow hoppers.  If you can post 150 pt hops consistently then your in great shape for placement.  Once your good at understanding who’s friendly and who will snipe your points, 400 point hops become common.

In fact the biggest placement players typically make their scoring runs by hitting their fellow chat participants big okie -ihulk A teams for the safe 75 point bounce.
       X A team is an incredibly common line message.

if you really need help with the advanced pvp game I.e how to play on the point waves, hit snipers etc.  theire are quite informative chat for all the shards on who to hit and how exactly to crack their teams.

For the remains 95% of us who just want 1200 and shield out, I definitely think we can adjust the mmr to have a better experience.  And that includes all the semi retired sniper types who just want an easy 1200, hit some cheap shots in on placement players and then shield out.

But once you pass 1300 and are trying to take placement slots from people, you should expect to see their best combos, them calling in enforcers, coordinated actions and they will be boosting against you the whole time.

Bad

No, Im not passing 1200 points, I just want the cps.
No, Im not interested in all those techniques looking really nice and all that,  but you are just justyfing this broken meta as you are interested in it.
This thread was not about sniping, hopping or shielding. 

On my alliance less people feel motivated to play pvp because they hate hulkoye teams. 

Kolence

@Daredevil217

People (well 5-star rosters) have been playing less, I think. Some quit playing. At least from what I can see in our alliance. And a few older ones I know have disbanded due to burnout/quitting. 

Though high scores might have gone even higher. The very top ones.
Around top 100 line, it's still mostly the same. It was slightly dropping for a while, now it seems to be going slightly up again. I'm fairly sure it has to do a little with Polaris at 4-star and Hulkoye at 5-star play, as they can win quickly.

Is all that quitting because of Hulkoye? Or PvP? Or just RL stuff. How would I know...?
The general sentiment though, among our veteran players, is that they hate fighting Hulkoye (as it was with Bishop and Jumpy Cap before). A bit less with BRB/Kitty as even though they are slow and boring, they are less likely to cause much health loss. Again, just my guesses.

Anon

Bad said:

No, Im not interested in all those techniques looking really nice and all that,  but you are just justyfing this broken meta as you are interested in it.

I literally LOL'd in real life at this line.

Phumade

Bad said:

No, Im not passing 1200 points, I just want the cps.
No, Im not interested in all those techniques looking really nice and all that,  but you are just justyfing this broken meta as you are interested in it.
This thread was not about sniping, hopping or shielding. 

On my alliance less people feel motivated to play pvp because they hate hulkoye teams. 

Like I said earlier let’s have two MMRs.

once for below 1300 so you can have easier matches against weaker teams with opportunity to see and hit bigger A teams at a 4:1 ratio.


once your over 1300 go back to standards mmr and compete in open pvp placement play or be happy with t50/100.

the top 5% or t25 players have already demonstrated that big okie/ihulk combos consistently get beat.  In fact consistently enough that players bank on climbing off shielded okie/ihulk teams.

Keep in perspective.  Do you think 2* rosters should be competing against 4* rosters?  It might be helpful to consider the span of 5* whales.

1* = lvl450 baby champs.
2* = lvl 465
3* = lvl 480
4* = lvl 500
5* = lvl 550

These power bands are very real and very much like the gap between traditional tiers.  I would be surprised if your baby champs could not beat a baby ihulk/okie champ.  But hitting up require more.

in any case.  A 1200 and done player should not care about that kind of nuance.  But a placement player does need to know that stuff and handle it effectively.

Bad

 Phumade said:

Like I said earlier let’s have two MMRs.

once for below 1300 so you can have easier matches against weaker teams with opportunity to see and hit bigger A teams at a 4:1 ratio.

No, I think all this is not about having 2 MMR. Its about having balanced teams who can play in same chances in pvp.
Of course I can hit if I want  a team of two 500+ levels characters if I need the points. I will equip all I can and perhaps I could win.
If I lose is because I tried to bit a fish bigger than my jaws.
But an okoye level 480 and a baby hulk never should be on the same level as two 500 levels characters. 
Something should be done as a lot of players are posting it.
Activity on pvp is clearly lower as Ive been noticing. On the first slice(not talking about the last), nobody is climbing to 1200 until the last 3 hours, not like before.  Except, of course, those big hulkoye teams. 

DAZ0273

ThaRoadWarrior said:

DAZ0273 said:

ammenell said:

one more reason to stay in 4*/5* land.
i don't think I will ever champ my L400 roster

what's your experience overall, is pvp more or less fun now? 

Pick 2 PvP is about the same - it is nice to be able to kill teams fast, especially with Apocalypse. I am going to have to adjust though because I can't float at the points score I used to be able to but it hasn't been an absolute massacre (yet). I do also have the anti-Hulkoye team of Kitty/BRB so that helps a bit also.

SHIELD Sim is an absolute nightmare. I have been assured that it is possible to get to 2000 points with a baby champed 5* roster but the minute I put my head above around 1400 it is absolute battering time for hundreds of points. Rinse & Repeat.

This was definitely my experience in Shield Sim right after transitioning, to the point where I just walked away from it after I got as far as I could. In the end we're talking about a token or two, and a cover or two, so it wasn't the end of the world for me. Now though, I can do it, but I've had to get creative with my teams and when I play. You won't have an easy time of it if you're playing near the end of the season, so I find it's best to find a day with 2-day subs and spend a little time on it then. Right now in pick-3 I like Thano5/Onslaught/Apocalypse, though I totally get that recommending teams of old heads to people that have just transitioned is advice not easily followed. But with that team, I actively chase down Hulk/Okoye/Professor X teams, or any team I see with a 4* on it like Polaris, because with +2 to all colors in the bank and a lucky match 4 up front, you can do a pretty thorough job of killing one of those low-health lynchpin characters (hulk or polaris say) within just a few turns, and it's pretty much game over. If you do it with too low health and lose any of them, it can be a bit of a wash though, so just know you'll be using healthpacks. 

Thanks RoadWarrior - I will definitely take on board.this. Next season will be the first full one in 5* land and I guess I have a lot to learn but I don't regret going, a challenge it is!

Chrynos1989

You know, if they have to nerf something, they should nerf ihulk

people are crying because hulkoye is strong on defense

but other okoye teams?
okoye profx maybe
okoye thor Not at all
okoye Chavez People will laugh about you
my Favorit, Okoye sabre quite nice but still laughable
okoye deadpool still good but kill DP first problem solved

Phumade

Bad said:

 Phumade said:

Like I said earlier let’s have two MMRs.

once for below 1300 so you can have easier matches against weaker teams with opportunity to see and hit bigger A teams at a 4:1 ratio.

But an okoye level 480 and a baby hulk never should be on the same level as two 500 levels characters. 

You might want to specify how old those 500 chars are.

I don’t really think a 480 okie / 450ihulk is competitive  against 500 Adam warlock/yellow jacket combo to be honest. 

Points are low because it’s a competive new event and those A type players will tighten their play to better position themselves for placement and deny late climbers easy catch-up points.

but ultimately is your concerns about easy points to push out those placement players?  In any case a solo roster with just a naked 480/okie ihulk.  Would barely be competing for t25 in s4 first or second bracket.  Unless they are prepared to be hopping a day and 1/2 out and play 50+ matches

That same climber at the 3hr mark would be hard pressed to break 1000 in a sustained push  In any case to win placement slots, you need to better understand advanced pvp hopping mechanics.  Merely showing up with a single big pair in the last hours is usually not pleasant for anyone.

to be clear, 1200 progression players should not need to know advance play mechanics. And normally the bakers will push the scores high enough that only the committed will do the hop mechanics to lock in their placement spots.

Bottom line we want people to break 1200.  But if you want placement you have to be willing to work harder than the dude who monitored for 4 hops across 2 days with 4 ques each hop.  Roster power alone won’t decide t25.

and ultimately if you want more engagement just add fresh milestones.  Those have added way more brackets than any char rework.  Playing for placement only works for the top 5%.  The rest of us just want fun matches to 1200 maybe play a few after to see state of the art.  

To simply the discussion.
nerfing chars to make it easy to win placement is dumb.  Placement players are hardcore gamers that will always exploit any advantage to lock inplacement.  The actual char is irrelevant since they will always defaul to next best tool.

adjusting mmr to create better matchups allows players to realistically decided how far they want to play with a pleasant exp.  ideally players should be completing progression before being forced to use their biggest combos.

BigSoftieFF

You have a nice perspective @Phumade, I rarely agree with people here but you pretty much hit most nails on the head.

The top 5% will always figure it out and push harder than everyone else simply because they care more.

I disagree with the PvP population shrinking as well. I play in S3 and we get three .10 brackets nearly every event now, we used to barely get 2. Can’t imagine it’s just S3, there are some meanies there 😂