Your thoughts and enthusiasm if the next 5* is weak sauce ?

Cannibalqueen

Heroics were a PVE event tho.  It was that long line that had branches splitting off it.  Up and down.

I was confounded by the event and just didn’t like it at the time, because I didn’t have all the characters leveled enough.  I would probably fare better now and it’s definitely something I can see then revisiting.

edit: I just realized was wrong about this.  I was remembering the Gauntlet, which I think didn’t have any excluded characters.  It just had higher difficulty than normal events.

MadScientist

The last heroic event was Heroic: Juggernaut starting 3/27/2017

Daredevil217

Random thoughts reading this discussion:

- I loved Heroics! I didn’t have the roster I have now, but even back then, loved having to figure out how to use the tools made available to me instead of blasting everything with my sledgehammer.

- I think they were “universally despised” because players are so conditioned to play on autopilot and don’t want any disruption to that.

- “I worked hard/paid for these characters and deserve to use them” is a common argument that would likely pop up again if they bring heroics back. I mean I also worked hard chasing Wasp/ Banner/ Rescue/ Mags/ etc. so it’d be nice to play an event where they have use too. 

- I find it interesting that Michael, a known advocate for only collecting the best characters is championing more events where those characters could be locked out and he himself couldn’t compete. Selfishly I wish more people had that mindset (even if it doesn’t fully make sense to me) because of my first point. 

-Finally, in these restricted PVPs variety isn’t really a thing within the event. There will always be a Most Effective Tool Available (META) in any set of characters, and as you climb past a certain point, all you see is those one or two teams. Someone figures it out and then everyone just plays the same thing. 

- That said I still appreciate the variety between each event when characters are locked out, even if there isn’t variety within each event (Class of... is a great example of this phenomenon at work). 

Polares

Heroics were despised because not all chars are created equal and some are pretty bad, and when you need to face tough battles with those bad chars, that is not fun.
Also the selection of chars was random, no synergy between them most of the time (char selection should have been a curated list).
Also Heroics put in big disadvantage players with smaller rosters.
Said all of that, Heroic events started becoming a bit better and more fun when the roster grew, and we had more chars to chose from (so there always were 3 or 4 decent chars).

Michael1957

MadScientist said:

The last heroic event was Heroic: Juggernaut starting 3/27/2017

And that’s why I just missed them , started 2/11/17 and stumbled around on my own a few months in 2* land. The number of characters was probably 1/3 of what it is now , they could now certainly lock out 100 or more characters and rosters would still have a plethora of available combinations 

Daredevil217

Polares said:

Heroics were despised because not all chars are created equal and some are pretty bad, and when you need to face tough battles with those bad chars, that is not fun.
Also the selection of chars was random, no synergy between them most of the time (char selection should have been a curated list).
Also Heroics put in big disadvantage players with smaller rosters.
Said all of that, Heroic events started becoming a bit better and more fun when the roster grew, and we had more chars to chose from (so there always were 3 or 4 decent chars).

All those drawbacks are what made them appealing to me. 

“Not all characters are created equal” is the understatement of the century. This is why everyone plays the same 6 or so characters on the same teams. Maybe you can use Hulk one event but Okoye is locked out. You can use Apoc, but not Bill or Thor. Professor, but no Onslaught. Kitty, but no Bill or Grocket. It would force people to think outside their established teams and find new combos. I think that’d be pretty cool. 

As for “tough battles”, at least everyone would be facing the same tough battles. 

Would an advantage go to “champ em all” guys? Yep. Would those who chose to skip characters and instead hyper level the meta be disadvantaged? On the week their super characters are locked out, probably. But why shouldn’t someone with the same number of 5* covers spread around not get an advantage over someone who always wins because all their progress is dumped into Okoye? And we’re not talking every event. It’d be like once a season at most. 

Most of this game disadvantages smaller rosters, so that’s a non-starter for me. Whether it’s Crash of the Titans, champ rewards, Essential characters, Class of...  a collector game is obviously going to advantage those with a bigger collection more often than not. 

HoundofShadow

I find it weird that veterans who request Heroics to be back are doing it at the expense of newer players who play MPQ non competitively but not casually for fewer than two or three years. When this happens, history will repeat. The only difference is that newer players will be in the shoes of those veterans who played Heroics a few years ago, and they will be the one completing the entire event this time. 

IMO, Shield Training and Heroics have a lot of similarities but the main difference is that if the AI use BRB, you can't use BRB. Other than that, Heroics have many times the nodes that shield training has.

If people dislike the old and new shield training, I don't think bringing back Heroics will make them happy.  Because based on past feedbacks, players want a more inclusive story events or pvps rather than a restrictive one.

If they do bring back Heroics, simply lock out every single meta character of all tiers, including Deadpool and his teamup, or force players to use 5* Wasp, Bruce Banner or Kingpin in a team.

DAZ0273

You need to be mindful that when we had Heroic events there were no SCL to partition them into, so scaling went with your roster strength (I think unless I am mis-remembering?). My roster was pretty young back then and it really was a flip of a coin whether I had the characters but if some of the then meta-characters were locked out then players with rosters who could normally easily deal with the difficulty could be left scrambling around.

It was the same story with Enemy of the State that locked OML out of the first few days and the complaints were loud! OML was the ultimate healthpack saver and not having him to use was a big gripe.

I figure with SCL, over 100 4* to choose from and all those 5's you could do Heroics and make them OK. Don't lock out any 2's and only lock out some of the 3's.

I'm not particularly wanting them back but as a player back then who was far away from having all the tools, Heroics were not quite as bad as is being made out. They could be frustrating but then again lots of things about MPQ that are miles better now were quite awful back then.

I suppose it is all just a matter of perspective. I couldn't even begin to try and explain what this game made you do in terms of scrambling to get iso to rescue what was on your vine before saved covers was a thing. New players would consider it insane.

ThaRoadWarrior

DAZ0273 said:

[...] I couldn't even begin to try and explain what this game made you do in terms of scrambling to get iso to rescue what was on your vine before saved covers was a thing. New players would consider it insane.

That wasn't even that long ago but it feels like another lifetime lol. This game appears to be about matching gems, but really this game is fantasy football, and you're managing your roster trying to make advantageous trades. It's less so about that now in the post saved cover, post shardpocalypse days, but the iso pressure used to be so real...

Daredevil217

HoundofShadow said:

I find it weird that veterans who request Heroics to be back are doing it at the expense of newer players who play MPQ non competitively but not casually for fewer than two or three years. When this happens, history will repeat. The only difference is that newer players will be in the shoes of those veterans who played Heroics a few years ago, and they will be the one completing the entire event this time. 

IMO, Shield Training and Heroics have a lot of similarities but the main difference is that if the AI use BRB, you can't use BRB. Other than that, Heroics have many times the nodes that shield training has.

If people dislike the old and new shield training, I don't think bringing back Heroics will make them happy.  Because based on past feedbacks, players want a more inclusive story events or pvps rather than a restrictive one.

If they do bring back Heroics, simply lock out every single meta character of all tiers, including Deadpool and his teamup, or force players to use 5* Wasp, Bruce Banner or Kingpin in a team.

I don’t think it’s weird at all. I was that newer player back then, and I loved them (but I also love shield training, especially the hard nodes). I didn’t feel anymore disadvantaged during Heroics than normal.  Better rosters still kicked my butt just like in any other event. But I liked some of the team compositions I could come up with. Which nullifies your last point completely. Forcing me to use just three characters would for me, take the fun out of heroics- trying to build teams when some options are locked out. If you lock out all options and force me to use just three characters, that’s no fun.  I think the number of characters has expanded to the point that you could lock out tons and still have plenty left to make some cool teams. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I was thinking that Puzzle Ops would be a good place to build win conditions that showcase, if not outright necessitate the use of otherwise dud characters. 

658_2

You can’t have heroics with this level of dilution. Anybody who hasn’t been playing for years would be screwed.

MoosePrime

DAZ0273 said:

You need to be mindful that when we had Heroic events there were no SCL to partition them into, so scaling went with your roster strength (I think unless I am mis-remembering?).

Some people liked them for this reason (not me).  When it locked out your high level characters, it made the event easier than other non-Heroic events.

If people think Heroics would be neat to have back, I would challenge them to do an event with only boosted characters.  It's fine when there's a good set, but when they don't have synergy, it's not so good.

tonypq

If the next 5 is good-great, at least YJ is half way decent in LLs. However I'd still want to wait out Sighclops leaving LLs before I seriously thought about hitting LLs up, which means YJ would be gone. I don't think this game can handle any more lamo 5s without someone really good hitting soon. 

helix72

I'd like to understand why people think YJ is half way decent? Granted, mine is still a baby but I'm just not seeing it. He doesn't get in the way but he doesn't really help much. My understanding is his matching while invisible damage doesn't get the boost from Apoc or Okoye which really limits his effectiveness. I'd take Carpool over YJ at this point.

ammenell

I wonder when the next gambit/bishop/ihulk debuts. 

all I read everywhere are pitchfork posts about hulk and okoye getting the gambit treatment. 

can we have the next bishop (as a 5* please) now, so I can keep my shiny toys because everyone is scrambling to post some whiny tunykitty and forgets about ihulk?

Akoni

helix72 said:

I'd like to understand why people think YJ is half way decent? Granted, mine is still a baby but I'm just not seeing it. He doesn't get in the way but he doesn't really help much. My understanding is his matching while invisible damage doesn't get the boost from Apoc or Okoye which really limits his effectiveness. I'd take Carpool over YJ at this point.

I suppose he's ok if you have a power couple in need of a third wheel who doesn't get in the way. I'm not a YJ fan, but I don't think he's garbage. Kind of middle of the road IMO. 

jp1

helix72 said:

I'd like to understand why people think YJ is half way decent? Granted, mine is still a baby but I'm just not seeing it. He doesn't get in the way but he doesn't really help much. My understanding is his matching while invisible damage doesn't get the boost from Apoc or Okoye which really limits his effectiveness. I'd take Carpool over YJ at this point.

Went up against him and AW in the Sighclops PvP and it wasn’t the pushover team I expected. Of course I won, but picking whether or not to take out YJ or Adam first was less obvious in practice than on paper and I took significant damage.

Daredevil217

I’m a big fan of YJ on paper. Nowhere near the meta, but he fits my personal play style. If a character isn’t going to warp the meta (“the big 6”) or be meta-adjace (Prof/Slaught/Carnage/), then the next best thing for me are characters that are sustainable/ healthpack friendly, fun/puzzley, have a niche, and lots of active powers to fire (bonus if they’re cheap). Jacket checks all these boxes for me. I think he’ll be a blast to play.