Faster Winfinite : BRB/Polaris + (4Thanos or 5Carol)?

AXP_isme

ThaRoadWarrior said:

You'll need more than a single run, to take the average if you really want to "know" which team is faster. There are so many stacking levels of RNG at play here that even without Supports you may get a very statistically aberrant run and declare some team fastest or slowest based off that.

This 👆

You would need to run the experiment hundreds, or more likely thousands, of times to even begin to account for all the variables at play and the inherent RNG. Good luck gathering proper evidence here, I'm definitely pro the scientific method and salute your endeavour. On the other hand I think I'll just try them out a few times each and go with the one that works best for me.

I'm leaning towards Carol personally because she has a bit more survivability and my BRB doesn't have that many covers but... to each, their own. 

Polares

@PiMacleod I dont think you are going to find a yellow power in the game right now that destroys a lot of the board and also does a lot of damage and it is "cheapish". BRB blue is cheap and does a lot of damage (with just one board destruction you can fire BRB blue 5 times! = 60k+ damage). There is no yellow power that can compete with that (as of right now, who knows in the future) and that on top of that, it also has to destroy the board. 

You are going to need to keep using BRB/Polaris/5Carol as they are the best version by a pretty BIG margin.

helix72

AXP_isme said:

You would need to run the experiment hundreds, or more likely thousands, of times to even begin to account for all the variables at play and the inherent RNG. Good luck gathering proper evidence here, I'm definitely pro the scientific method and salute your endeavour. On the other hand I think I'll just try them out a few times each and go with the one that works best for me.

I'm leaning towards Carol personally because she has a bit more survivability and my BRB doesn't have that many covers but... to each, their own. 

I agree that there are so many variables that each person really needs to do this for their own roster, and redo it when something changes--did you get new rank on a support that increases generating green at start? Do you want to avoid using boosts? Do you spend your HP on all color boosts (I don't)? Changing any of these things could change the answer. But I still think there's some value (it's not 100% but it's not 0% either) in even a few observations.

PiMacleod said:

I'd be curious as to support variants too, tbh.  For example, while Atlantis is an option shown above, I'm a fan of using Taskmaster's sword on Polaris, to increase her damage per passive power fired.  I mean, it's a bit over 1k damage added per passive thing she does!  That adds up.

Of course, mine is only 3* TM Sword... but still.

Point taken: Even a rank 1 Atlantis also adds damage to the supported character's powers: 1451 extra damage at rank 4 level 200 (and I did test and verify it is getting added to Polaris's passives).

OJSP said:

Just an observation.. for that to happen, we need to be really lucky.. I presume you got some green APs from Atlantis and Yaro Root to start the process immediately or got lucky with match-5 and cascades? Or BRB was healing all the damage from Carol’s Communicator?

Also, how did you manage to get 14 4* supports? That’s impressive luck.

Since I was going for speed, I didn't stop to check, but you are correct--the faster times happen when I start with extra Green (but for my roster, this will be true on both Th4nos and C5rol so I don't think it will overly influence comparing the two).

I did take some damage and it was all healed by battle end thanks to the Communicator and cascades matching protects along the way. Next time I'll screen record so I can go back and see exactly how many "free" AP I started off with at the start of battle.

I actually have 16 4* supports (only 1 5* support). A while back they had a support vault, I think it was when Kra-van was released, where you could buy supports with HP. I busted my HP hoard because at the time I was still pretty far away from 5* land and supports were of huge importance in me "punching above my weight" in PvE.

ThaRoadWarrior

There are a couple factors at play that I think would be part of overall speed: time to get started and then damage per second. It seems to me that Danver5 ought to be doing more damage than Th4nos, but the amount of board shake and attendant animation may draw things out. I think G4mora may be fastest if you can actually get her started quickly, but since you are limited to making matches to flood the board, it just takes longer to start in the first place.

helix72

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Animations on or off?

Off. I've had them off for so long I almost forget that they are even a thing.

Tiger_Wong

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I dug around sorting by Yellow, and a few characters nearly seemed like they could kickstart things - Star Lord can turn yellow into charged green, but i don’t think he will overwrite an enemy special. Cable can turn yellow into more strikes, but again only so useful without a board shaker or green battery (faster than Danver5 herself with that glacial 3 turn repeater).

i agree if it didn’t cost you the turn that Hood seems interesting. Doom can shuffle a board, but that doesn’t really help. 

Have you considered Hellcat? While her yellow doesn’t destroy, it boosts ALL strikes on the field and creates a black CD from anywhere that doesn’t have strike. 

Also.... Hellcat’s red destroys a row and creates 3 strikes for 7 AP. 

DrDevilDinosaur

5* Storm.

Use Yellow to convert TUs into Green which feeds Carol.
Carol green destroys friendly Strikes to generate Yellow AP and more Strikes.

By converting TUs, you also allow room for more specials per row, which results in more rows destroyed, which is more damage.

Storm yellow can alternatively be used to create blue tiles early if you need to try and get a stunlock up from Polaris.

ThaRoadWarrior

I tried 5torm, but for this to work off of strikes we really need to convert yellow to green quickly/instantly. It takes too long to get moving without that initial green battery to fire off Danver5’s green and start blasting the strikes. 

Same with Hellcat - shuffling enemy specials to the bottom on yellow is no help at all to the Danver5 engine.

LavaManLee

And we have a winner : 4Thanos

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread.  I love the indepth discussions of gameplay.

ThaRoadWarrior

So is Th4nos really the fastest? Who are the other contenders for the crown? (board destruction on green that includes friendly specials)

5*: Carbage - 7 tiles destroyed for 9 green + an auto-turn conditionally - hard to fully quantify on paper but probably not great
5* Black Bolt - knocks out the 2 middle rows for 10 green AP, or wipes the entire board if you have a ton of all colors, probably won't happen with this team

4*: Shuri - 5 random tiles for 11ap, except if you manage to fire off her red it's 9ap - probably not good
4* Thing - 4x4 block of tiles for 12 green, but also can jump-in-front of Polaris and add to the protect stack. seems not awesome
4* Eddie Brock Venom - may be superior when facing an opponent Polaris since his green is dependent on enemy specials. Cost is 13 green - 1ap for every enemy SAP present to a minimum of 7
4* Devil Dinosaur - 2x2 block for 7 green AP - not great
4* X Force Wolverine - 8 green AP to knock out 15 tiles in 3 different x shapes has good potential i think
4* C4rnage - 16 destroyed tiles for 8 green ap, plus good passive special creation seems like a strong alternative
4* Totally Awesome Hulk - It costs 13 green, but you get to pick the 3x3 block of tiles to smash and then knocks out 7 more basic tiles. Has the countdown that adds green to the board, could be good?
4* Super Skrull - random 3x3 block of tiles for 10 green plus some random blues if there are friendly specials in the blast
4* Domino - destroys 15 random non black tiles for 7 green, then for 9 red she will destroy 50% of the black on the board. incoming tiles will mostly be black, which could be a liability or not for this team
4* Wiccan - destroys a random column for 12 green, and if any enemy specials are present will move on to another one until it hits a dry column or wipes the board. Would be better if it worked like Danver5's old power
4* War Machine - creates some countdowns that take a few turns to destroy basic tiles, so probably not great
4* Howard the Duck - 8 green ap to destroy all green tiles on the board. Mileage may vary but that's pretty cheap
4* Namor - cuts a trident shaped hole in the board for 12 green, probalby costs too much for what it does
4* Juggernaut - destroys a chosen column plus 10 random tiles from adjacent columns on BLUE, which poses a bit of a twist on this team. Has the advantage of high health

3* Punisher - 3x3 block of tiles for 8ap
3* Storm - destroys 14 random tiles for 10 ap
3* Hulk - destroys 8 plus 1 for every 2 green AP in the bank for 10 ap - this worked ok in his PVP but wasn't as good
3* Widow- does that big reticule attack for 19 green; seems like it might cost too much for early match but she has a lot of board destruction between that and red; may be better in practice than on paper

1* storm - 10 ap tobreak 8 tiles
1* juggernaut - 10 ap to destroy 16 tiles

helix72

That was great. I think you need to include toons that have Green OR Blue board destructions, and would include:

5* Wasp: I won't even get into it. It costs like 22 Blue AP to destroy a couple tiles.
4* Quake: For 7 Blue AP destroys 8 random tiles of a chosen color
4* Northstar: For 8 Blue destroys a chosen row (8 tiles)
4* Elsa Bloodstone: For 9 Blue AP destroys 12 tiles

EDiT: My 1* Juggernaut with 5 covers in Green destroys 16 tiles for 6 Green

KGB

@ThaRoadWarrior

What about 5* Storm's green? She can destroy all tiles in a given color at 5 covers for 10 Green. Picking a good color should net plenty of free AP from BrB.

Also 2* Storms Green shatters 1 random tile for every Green AP you have AND it generates AP from all the tiles. I used her regularly for infinite combos with Thor/Mags back in long ago days when I was in 2* land. If she wasn't so squishy she'd be ideal since she can generate so much AP and keep the winfinte going.

Even your 1* Juggs cost is a bit misleading since you reduce the cost to 6 Green when you have 5 covers which makes it more spamable.

KGB

ThaRoadWarrior

Yeah, blue didn’t occur to me till I noticed 4* Juggernaut was doing it. I may attempt XFW and Domino some, I think they could both prove to be pretty surprising since they crush the board on two colors directly and both have wild card third powers that may assist the operation.

dingo

Great... Say goodbye to 1* Juggs. He's obviously way too powerful   

ThaRoadWarrior

OJSP said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

1* storm - 10 ap tobreak 8 tiles
1* juggernaut - 10 ap to destroy 16 tiles

Those are at 1 cover. At 5 covers, Storm destroys 14 tiles for 10 APs and Juggernaut only needs 6 APs to destroy 16 random tiles.

Oh does juggernaut get cheaper at high covers? That’s a rare enhancement.

ThaRoadWarrior

I went into simulator with Domino/Polaris/BRB and was never truly able to take that team winfinite. Cant recommend as a real contender.

XFW on the other hand took a few turns to get moving, but was eventually able to do it. You need to alternate firing Scuttlebutt with X-Force to do any meaningful damage. Would take a long time but seems workable.

ThaRoadWarrior

Juggernaut works at 3/5/5, and if you can get him to tank he shrugs off pretty high damage. Blue takes a bit to get moving but if you’re careful about the column you smash you can do it comparably fast to the green shakers. Then all your green goes to scuttlebutt

TriSentinel

Anyone else noticed the silent nerf they made to Danver5? She only destroys non friendly tiles with her green now. Not too happy about this, it’s the usual overnerfing of a character.

MoosePrime

ThaRoadWarrior said:

OJSP said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

1* storm - 10 ap tobreak 8 tiles
1* juggernaut - 10 ap to destroy 16 tiles

Those are at 1 cover. At 5 covers, Storm destroys 14 tiles for 10 APs and Juggernaut only needs 6 APs to destroy 16 random tiles.

Oh does juggernaut get cheaper at high covers? That’s a rare enhancement.

It used to be a bit more common (2 or 3 other characters had powers that did it), but they changed those other powers to make them more easily understandable for new players.

Hilk

TriSentinel said:

Anyone else noticed the silent nerf they made to Danver5? She only destroys non friendly tiles with her green now. Not too happy about this, it’s the usual overnerfing of a character.

Yes... the one use she had they nerfed her for, and didn't change the character that created the problem... It looks like this thread is moot.... Time to brush off Thanos4.

Not only that - they did not do any communication about it at all... no trade ins... etc...