Faster Winfinite : BRB/Polaris + (4Thanos or 5Carol)?

helix72

I've used both extensively, and both Thanos & Carol's green powers are what take the longest because a few things have to happen:

1) The tiles have to be destroyed
2) The new tiles have to fall
3) The new board needs to resolve--this means any cascades (some of which can last a while)
4) The new special tiles all have to get made

If I recall, Carol's adds extra steps:

1) One row of tiles gets destroyed
2) The new tiles have to fall
3) The new board needs to resolve--this includes any cascades (since it's only one row being destroyed there are usually not many)
4) Additional rows of tiles get destroyed 
5) More new tiles have to fall
6) The new board needs to resolve--this means any cascades (some of which can last a while)
7) The new special tiles all have to get made

Compare that to firing Bill's blue: 3 taps. Tap Bill, tap blue, tap fire. I haven't officially timed it (but I will).

I'm also not including that I find Th4nos gets going quicker (disclosure: I use both supports and boosts). Let's say there are 4 Protect tiles on the board randomly placed. Fire Th4nos Green and you've got a 94% chance to hit at least 1. Fire C5rol Green and you've got a 42% chance to hit at least 1.

One last observation: I've got several SCL 10 top 10 finishes since I made the switch. Was mostly t20 prior. Doesn't sound like a big jump but I assure you, it's a lot harder to go from t20 to t10 than it is to go from t100 to t50.

PiMacleod

I can't argue with any of the numbers here... but here's my (unfortunate) input...

I don't have BRB champed.  I only make 3 protects at the start... boooooooo...

My 5*Marvel IS champed.  Of course, my Polaris and Th4nos ARE champed too.

Because of BRB's lack-luster protect-making in the beginning (for me), I rely on supports HEAVILY, to get this to work faster.  ...to be honest, I don't know why anyone wouldn't.  More is better, right?  

I have my Carol Communicator on BRB, so there's a small chance of extra protects in the beginning. Its rank 3, but I only got 60 levels on it.  Need to get and pour more Red ISO into it.  Cool.

Polaris doesn't have a support.  I don't have a spare one that isn't being used that makes protects.  Anything that I have that makes protects is usually "villains" only.  weird.

Which brings me to Carol or Thanos...  Carol has a level 100 Rank 3 Quinjet on.  Its okay...

But Thanos has the level 150 rank 3 Cull Obsidian on.  Nearly a 11% chance to make a new protect at the start of each turn.  That's better.  I know it's small, but I ONLY START WITH 3 PROTECTS... grrr.

So, if things go awesome, I have 6 protects (3 from BRB, 2 from Carol Communicator, and 1 from Cull Obsidian).  Judging by this, Team Th4nos is the better way to go.

HOWEVER -- if I go with Carol, and I don't fire off BRB's blue (except early in the match to get more protects out there), Carol's green damage alone is awesome.  I just spam that.  Do I have 30 blue eventually?  Yes.  Do I care? No.  It does easily over 30k, if not 40k per cast.  Whereas Thanos doesn't do nearly as much damage... even if I throw in the BRB blues (which sounds like a mental condition -- "I got the BRB blues, sigh...")

So, I've been gambling with Carol... and it works quicker for me, just due to the damage... but I also gotta point out that Thanos gets me my protects quicker, due to the supports.  It's basically a game of board luck for me.

This all tells me that I need my BRB to champ up already.  :P  

DyingLegend

So out of this team, who is most likely to get hit with the nerf bat? 

ThaRoadWarrior

Maybe they can nerf Danver5 the way they did the first time Gambit got nerfed, and have it so more of her powers do something right when you fire them?

Borstock

DyingLegend said:

So out of this team, who is most likely to get hit with the nerf bat? 

I would guess Polaris.

ThaRoadWarrior

PiMacleod said:

My 5*Marvel IS champed.  Of course, my Polaris and Th4nos ARE champed too.

  

I wonder if there is some strike-tile based alternate for you that could lean more into Danver5 and forgo BRB? 61 shards from now I'll be happy to experiment some with that, but at the moment my Danver5 is 5/4/3 lvl 255

PiMacleod

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Maybe they can nerf Danver5 the way they did the first time Gambit got nerfed, and have it so more of her powers do something right when you fire them?

except, they'll get rid of something with her green, making her useless again.  The only reason we even utter her name now is because of mass tile destruction for 10 green.  If that gets reduced, removed, or changed to something else... she'll more than likely be useless again.

I honestly think the red would be okay if they just made it do its actual affect and THEN put down the repeater.  Its not so strong that the game couldn't take a hit for that damage and effect, with a repeater for it after.  I think it'd be pretty darn good then.

As for yellow, I think it'd be cool if you could choose who gets sent Airborne -- on EITHER team.  At level 4, select two people.  At 5, select 3.  If enemies are selected, make them take more damage than normal, or maybe remove some protects (not destroy).  If allies, the healing per usual (if not better).

Sorry -- you got me thinking about it, and this is where I went.    Move along everyone!  

PiMacleod

ThaRoadWarrior said:

PiMacleod said:

My 5*Marvel IS champed.  Of course, my Polaris and Th4nos ARE champed too.

  

I wonder if there is some strike-tile based alternate for you that could lean more into Danver5 and forgo BRB? 61 shards from now I'll be happy to experiment some with that, but at the moment my Danver5 is 5/4/3 lvl 255

Hmm... generate yellow upon killing strikes, per usual.  Need mass tile destruction with yellow.  Only thing that comes to mind is Hood's yellow, but that ends your turn.  I'll look around... but I don't know if much will pop up.

Update:  Hood, but with the turn ending.  St5rm, if you can line up the TU tiles that you're gonna change appropriately.  Fury (which might work on a alternative basis -- using the built in stun of his yellow to buy you time, if you run into a lack of yellow).  Negasonic, at level 5 yellow, she'd swap 4 pairs around.  It's risky, but if you can match some of those charges she'd make, that's more opportunities to destroy strikes.  At least its a cheap power.

ThaRoadWarrior

For some reason I had it in my head that you got green from Danver5' strike destruction, but it's yellow, yeah.

Polaris/3* Thor/Danver5 feels like a dangerous game at the 5* tier, trying to turn the board green with his Yellow and hope for a cascade without losing your 3*...

This probably deserves its own thread outside this particular winfinite combo discussion since it's now something else.

abmoraz

ThaRoadWarrior said:

@abmoraz
How does it compare to BRB/G4mora/Polaris for speed?

I tried it out.  Once it gets started, G4mora's "Deadliest" women takes them out in 3 rounds, however this took a  LOT longer to fill the screen than with C5rol.  Gamora is a lot more squishy, as well. 

abmoraz

helix72 said:

For my lvl 452 BRB, lvl 450 Carol, and lvl 292 Th4nos:

BRB/Carol:
Fire Carol Green ~ 26K (I'm not sure why your Carol was doing so much more damage than mine)
Fire Bill Blue 5 times = 5 x 12467 = 62,335
Repeat
Total 88K per "round"

BRB/Thanos:
Fire Thanos Green = 10,672
Fire Bill Green = 34,000
Fire Bill Blue 5 times = 5 x 12467 = 62,335
Repeat
Total 107K per "round"

"Carol" was doing more damage because you're neglecting the Polaris damage each time a match is made on the cascades and each time she puts down special tiles.

The problem with your analysis is that a "round" doesn't matter.  Your rounds take a LOT longer than mine. You're firing 7 powers.  I'm firing 1.  While your damage/round may be higher, my damage per second will dwarf yours.

452 Carol (5-5-3), 435 BRB (4-4-4), 272 Polaris (4-5-4)

HoundofShadow

A more neutral way of deciding is to use a stopwatch. That's what I did in Deadpool PvP. I use it to time how long it takes to finish 10 matches (ranges between 8 to 10mins) when I use boosted R4G and Polaris. I timed for 4 sets of 10 matches.

Taganov

Champed Th4nos & 250 ish Carol here, and Carol is faster (CL10). Her green does more damage and clears far more tiles, setting up full screen clears. I won't even bother using BRB's blue when I run Carol, but that's only because it "feels faster." Could certainly use testing to confirm, but firing BRB is mandatory when running Th4anos.

Phumade

Taganov said:

Champed Th4nos & 250 ish Carol here, and Carol is faster (CL10). Her green does more damage and clears far more tiles, setting up full screen clears. I won't even bother using BRB's blue when I run Carol, but that's only because it "feels faster." Could certainly use testing to confirm, but firing BRB is mandatory when running Th4anos.

Firing brb Blue makes it much faster.  You should be able to get 6 fires before you retire carol green.  The main issue is that brb blue fires fast with no on screen board changes.

So once I achieve complete stunlock viapolaris blue.  My sequence is.  Starting with 30 green green and blue.

1.  Fire brb blue 6x for 60k plus damage.  

2.  If I have 20green or more and there is a green match on the board.  I fire brb green first for 12 ap.  To get 35k plus damage.  To leave me at 8green.  Since I already stunlocked the team, I take the green match to go back over 12ap,

3.  I then see if I can fire blue again, and then fire carol green to reset the cycle.

i do think this Polaris brb carol combo is much faster than worthy ap, he, coulson and just as reliable.

prcoessing through carols green is really slow, so def take advantage of the surplus ap to fire off more damage powers

Daredevil217

@HoundofShadow

when are you going to stopwatch this, buddy?

Interesting to see both sides say “my way is faster!”  And is Gamora no longer even a contender for the best Winfinite (with either CoulHawk or BRB/Laris)?

HoundofShadow

I don't have C5rol fully covered. I got to wait two years. So, those who have both Th4nos and C5rol champed can do that. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I need 38 more Danver5 shards, and I can test it. I still like G4mora/Polaris/BRB for it, but it would be good to stopwatch it at some point lol.

PiMacleod

I ran into a simple variant of this in PvP... and while I'm not afraid of it, it would seem to be nearly as effective at getting the win.

BRB/Polaris/ ONE STAR JUGGS

...I was slightly stunned to see him used with a champed 5*, but then I thought to myself... "huh, it IS only 6 green AP for all that tile destruction..."  So, you OBVIOUSLY aren't relying on this for a defensive win, but you can probably start your "fun" earlier in the match, and redo over and over more reliably.

EDIT:  Okay, I tried it.  It works really easy and quick!  The only "negative" is that Juggs ability isn't doing much damage at all... you're basing this all on Polaris passive damage really.  However, since BRB's green costs 12, you can safely fire off a BRB green if you get 18+ green AP.  That adds up really easy, since Juggs ability only costs 6, but kills 16 tiles (minimum -- don't forget cascades!).  I found myself many times having a full 30 green, so I'd fire off BRB's green TWICE, then do another Juggs.  Sure, it was slow, but that's only because my BRB is NOT champed (9 covers).  I can imagine this working better for others.

PiMacleod

I also tried BRB/Polaris/ 4* Black Panther...

Because... um, you know... EVERY PROTECT TILE YOU MATCH DOES DAMAGE, based on how many PROTECTS you have out there.

I figured it'd be fun to see what it could do -- use my blue to stun with Polaris IF needed, but otherwise, I could always use BP's blue to put out MORE protects too.

Ended up taking too long, basically because the enemy got turns.  Can't winfinite this way, obviously... but each match had at least 3 protects in the late game, and did pretty awesome damage.  

I also wonder about Super Skrull now... one of his blues puts out MORE protects, and his green costs 10, destroys 9, and gives extra effect for each friendly special destroyed during this.  I mean, it sounds somewhat promising...?

ThaRoadWarrior

P4nther tops out at 8 protects I think for factoring in the damage? He might play well with Heimdall for making cheap fortifications though.