Faster Winfinite : BRB/Polaris + (4Thanos or 5Carol)?

PiMacleod

ThaRoadWarrior said:

P4nther tops out at 8 protects I think for factoring in the damage? He might play well with Heimdall for making cheap fortifications though.

Yep.  You're right... didn't see that "cap" to the ability.  That said, I think the damage looked big to me because I was hitting matches including 3 or more protects in it, and then top that off with Polaris' passive...  It starts to add up!

But yeah, it's still not worth it, seeing what OTHER potential 3rd members we have out there.

ThaRoadWarrior

I sank a bunch of iso into my  now-champable Danver5, she's currently level 402. This team feels like the fastest option to me even without her being fully champed. It's definitely the most reliable on hard challenge nodes so far too - On Maggia in Motion, which is Kingpin 4*/Daken/Sentry, I breezed through with Apocalypse/BRB/50Thor for the first 3 clears, but then switched to whatever we're calling this team. By turn 3 or 4 the Blue/Green engine was in full throttle, and it was game over. I felt that using Clash of the Worthy was worth it for speed, for the reasons previously mentioned (good damage, cheap, short animation) compared to only doing the green board wipe and watching Polaris's animations resolve several times

brontag1

Whatever we're calling this team.. hmm, how about PolaRayKillfinite? 

ThaRoadWarrior

@PiMacleod
I attempted a strike-tile version of this by running Valkyrie/Danver5/Polaris and once again forgot that you earn yellow instead of green, and also that Danver5's strongest color is red, so it was a total wash. 

I also attempted using my Danver5/3* Thor/Polaris team, and the green-earn isn't nearly fast enough using the yellow you get. And Thor can only color change basic tiles anyway.

I also tried 5torm/Danver5/Polaris and 5torm died pretty quick for tanking everything so I couldn't even try using her yellow.

PiMacleod

ThaRoadWarrior said:

@PiMacleod
I attempted a strike-tile version of this by running Valkyrie/Danver5/Polaris and once again forgot that you earn yellow instead of green, and also that Danver5's strongest color is red, so it was a total wash. 

I also attempted using my Danver5/3* Thor/Polaris team, and the green-earn isn't nearly fast enough using the yellow you get. And Thor can only color change basic tiles anyway.

I also tried 5torm/Danver5/Polaris and 5torm died pretty quick for tanking everything so I couldn't even try using her yellow.

I wonder if Fury would work as the 3rd...

helix72

ThaRoadWarrior said:

@PiMacleod
I attempted a strike-tile version of this by running Valkyrie/Danver5/Polaris and once again forgot that you earn yellow instead of green, and also that Danver5's strongest color is red, so it was a total wash. 

I also attempted using my Danver5/3* Thor/Polaris team, and the green-earn isn't nearly fast enough using the yellow you get. And Thor can only color change basic tiles anyway.

I also tried 5torm/Danver5/Polaris and 5torm died pretty quick for tanking everything so I couldn't even try using her yellow.

This is the exact problem that supports can help solve. Do you have a Quinjet, Yaro Root, Shuri's Lab, Hulkling, or Pocket Radio? Any of them could be your answer to make Green your strongest color if it is the right star version and level.

ThaRoadWarrior

I was in Simulator, supports wouldn’t have helped. 

Polares

I think carol is the way to go. Usually she wipes the whole board, so you automatically get 30AP in both blue and green. This is way faster than using 4hanos.

And she could be even faster but sadly, her green works a bit weird, and after she fires her power she destroys one row, then all the others, you get the AP from BRB passive  and then finally 10 green AP is subtracted from the cost of firing carol green. This is pretty annoying because after everything you just have 20 green instead of 30. Having 30 would allow to fire BRB green, before firing Carol green again, so it would speed up the whole process. 

I dont get why it works like this, why are the 10 green not subtracted just after the power is fired?!?!?! Anybody can explain why?

PiMacleod

Polares said:

I think carol is the way to go. Usually she wipes the whole board, so you automatically get 30AP in both blue and green. This is way faster than using 4hanos.

And she could be even faster but sadly, her green works a bit weird, and after she fires her power she destroys one row, then all the others, you get the AP from BRB passive  and then finally 10 green AP is subtracted from the cost of firing carol green. This is pretty annoying because after everything you just have 20 green instead of 30. Having 30 would allow to fire BRB green, before firing Carol green again, so it would speed up the whole process. 

I dont get why it works like this, why are the 10 green not subtracted just after the power is fired?!?!?! Anybody can explain why?

Oh, we're using Carol.  That's not the issue.  ....or rather, the project?

The idea is to replicate the BRB/Polaris thing, but with Strike tiles based on Marvel's yellow generation when yellows are destroyed (not matched).  What this means is that we'd need a destructive yellow power... and those are rare.  And when you got one, it usually has weird stipulations.  Example:  Hood's is good, yet expensive -- and it ends your turn!  sigh.

The point is, the current BRB/Polaris hotness is based on protects.  If we could base it on Strikes, it would be faster due to the actual Strikes helping out.  Also, this would give ANOTHER winfinite combo for different rosters.

So, we looked through potential yellow-costing tile destruction powers.  There's very few that can help.

EDIT:  Just won in Shield Sim with Fury as the 3rd, to Polaris/C5rol.  Yes, it worked, but its harder to get rolling.  There's no strikes to start with.  HOWEVER -- there's a few avenues to help out.  Carol's red, Polaris' blue, Fury's purple... all make strikes.  For PvE, throw on a support that makes strikes upon match or start of turn or whatever, to help it out.

It basically went like this -- I was gunning for reds and blues, to hit Carol and/or Polaris' abilities asap.  Got them both off by about turn 4 or 5.  Once those hit, damage started ramping big time, and enemy match 4s (or mine) started getting me extra yellow that I didn't already have.  Once I had the 10 yellow, there were already plenty of strikes out there.  Fired it off, and well, the ensuing match 4s and more from the generated crit tiles and whatnot started destroying rows and rows (as normal for this power)... this fed me more yellow.  The damage was crazy strong though, as Fury's yellow makes all those crits, and Carol is the one using them.  Granted, this wasn't against a meta team, but they were champed 5s all the same.

Yeah, this is probably a squishy team to leave on defense, but we all know that going into these Polaris combos anyways.    I'll probably try it a couple more times, just to see what happens.  I think the nice part is that there's multiple ways to make strikes and a couple ways to destroy tiles too (Carol's green can still feed the yellow!)

EDIT 2:  Just won again, but honestly, the combo didn't fully pull off.  Couldn't get my hands on the red OR blue OR purple to make strikes.  Eventually I did... but it was too late... Carol had died.  Fury's yellow got off to stun the Prof that was left (had already killed the Okoye), and used Polaris' blue to stun the Thor.  Worked out anyways, due to stuns like this.  Nice to know there's a backup plan.... no pun intended!

EDIT 3:  Just got owned by a Apoc/Onslaught/BRB.  All it took was ONE match 4, and Carol had took a good chunk of damage.  BRB got his blue off, but my Polaris stunned him.  Didn't matter from there -- their Apoc started swingin' red and black hits... can't live through all that.

ThaRoadWarrior

I dug around sorting by Yellow, and a few characters nearly seemed like they could kickstart things - Star Lord can turn yellow into charged green, but i don’t think he will overwrite an enemy special. Cable can turn yellow into more strikes, but again only so useful without a board shaker or green battery (faster than Danver5 herself with that glacial 3 turn repeater).

i agree if it didn’t cost you the turn that Hood seems interesting. Doom can shuffle a board, but that doesn’t really help. 

AXP_isme

You could try xfw's yellow. It feels like a bad option. There's unlikely to be lots of yellow on the board and you have to match it to get the tile destruction but it's the best I can come up with for yellow tile destruction outside those already mentioned.

I got really excited about using wiccan with BRB and Polaris until I took him into a match and noticed that his lightning strike chain only triggers on enemy specials. Should have read the description properly...

DrDevilDinosaur

Ive got champed Gamora (304), Thanos (272), and Carol (450) all champed, but my BRB is soft-capped at lv 360 (with a 2/4/1 spread on covers).

Thanos is slightly faster to get started, or rather, I'm more inclined to fire his green early even if shields are spread out.

Carol is my preference. I might have to make a few more matches before I'm willing to fire her Green, but I'm burning through a /lot/ more damage per cycle.

As for Gamora, I guess I've just had bad luck. I spent so many health packs from multiple failed attempts and only ever managed to get a single win, so I gave up on that.

PiMacleod

AXP_isme said:

You could try xfw's yellow. It feels like a bad option. There's unlikely to be lots of yellow on the board and you have to match it to get the tile destruction but it's the best I can come up with for yellow tile destruction outside those already mentioned.

I got really excited about using wiccan with BRB and Polaris until I took him into a match and noticed that his lightning strike chain only triggers on enemy specials. Should have read the description properly...

Dude, I did the SAME thing with Wiccan once.  Was so excited to see it work, and then, as I went to click it, I read it again -- and i drooped my head in defeat.  Sigh.

Yeah... I think we just need a good yellow-based tile destroyer.  Maybe it'll happen someday.  When it does, we know what combo is there!   

helix72

So as we look to settle who is the fastest team, as some astute readers have pointed out, the only way to know for sure is to time it. There are a lot of variables so it will take a lot of observations to get to a credible conclusion, but here goes my one for today:

PvE
Sub 2 of Unstable ISO-8, Final Clear of Challenge Node: 4* Kingpin, 3* Sentry, 2* Daken.
Team:
lvl 452 5* BRB 5/3/5 + lvl 150 rank 3 Carol's Communicator Support
lvl 292 4* Thanos 3/5/5 + lvl 200 rank 4 Yaro Root
lvl 282 4* Polaris 4/4/5 + lvl 200 rank 4 Atlantis
Boosts: +2 Blue, +2 Green

Time: 3 minutes 10 seconds, all 3 toons at 100% health on battle end

ThaRoadWarrior

Animations on or off?

HoundofShadow

In order to be "more neutral", I think you need to remove those supports and boosts. If I'm not playing competitively in PvE, I would have timed Polaris/Thanos/BRB. But that is a good start to get more players to participate. Only then, we can have a more accurate way of telling which team's faster.

PiMacleod

HoundofShadow said:

In order to be "more neutral", I think you need to remove those supports and boosts. If I'm not playing competitively in PvE, I would have timed Polaris/Thanos/BRB. But that is a good start to get more players to participate. Only then, we can have a more accurate way of telling which team's faster.

I see both sides to this argument...

On one hand, you're looking for the options available to all, because supports are hard to get, and boosts aren't guaranteed (you could run out, or maybe not afford them?).

On the other hand, I think its nice to have the times for supports/boosts included, because for those of us who DO have the option, we could use what is the undisputed fastest option, as long as we meet those requirements.  After all, if we DO have the boosts and supports, that is guaranteed to be an improvement to our time-per-game.

...probably should just have records of both options -- for people that have the boosts/supports, so that we can use the data for PvE AND PvP respectively.

ThaRoadWarrior

You'll need more than a single run, to take the average if you really want to "know" which team is faster. There are so many stacking levels of RNG at play here that even without Supports you may get a very statistically aberrant run and declare some team fastest or slowest based off that.

PiMacleod

I'd be curious as to support variants too, tbh.  For example, while Atlantis is an option shown above, I'm a fan of using Taskmaster's sword on Polaris, to increase her damage per passive power fired.  I mean, it's a bit over 1k damage added per passive thing she does!  That adds up.

Of course, mine is only 3* TM Sword... but still.

MoosePrime

PiMacleod said:

AXP_isme said:

You could try xfw's yellow. It feels like a bad option. There's unlikely to be lots of yellow on the board and you have to match it to get the tile destruction but it's the best I can come up with for yellow tile destruction outside those already mentioned.

I got really excited about using wiccan with BRB and Polaris until I took him into a match and noticed that his lightning strike chain only triggers on enemy specials. Should have read the description properly...

Dude, I did the SAME thing with Wiccan once.  Was so excited to see it work, and then, as I went to click it, I read it again -- and i drooped my head in defeat.  Sigh.

Yeah... I think we just need a good yellow-based tile destroyer.  Maybe it'll happen someday.  When it does, we know what combo is there!   

I did it with Venom (Eddie Brock), for his green.  After starting the match, remembered that it destroys tiles based on enemy specials.