Next to be rebalanced *cough* Nerfed???

thedarkphoenix

Truthfully  if these characters got nerfed id probably pretty much quit. Game would be incredibly boring at that point 

Mrcl25

tonypq said:

So people will be happy if they,

Kitty- nerf how high she buffs tiles and reduce her purple count down from removing one tile each turn 

Okoye- cap how much extra damage she can boost others powers by with her black

5Thor- reduce the amount of attack power he generates

Ihulk- cut his AOE damage in half, make red cost 9 attack power 

Polaris- reduce how many specials she adds when matching one, cut in half how many tiles she buffs 

You all really want to see these characters gutted ?

I don't want that personally. On the above list of whom it sounds like most feel are overpowered or who you see the most in PVP being exploited for their gimmicks being a bit too highly tuned, I'd say Polaris and Kitty may be likely to get nerfed down a bit. 

Seems like a lot of complaints I'm reading about on this forum are about things getting way too out of control when protects or strike tiles are buffed too high too fast. Characters that create tiles shouldn't be punished, but I can see those that buff them at too high of a rate and frequently being on the block for a nerf or tuning to reduce their buffage. 

I'd like to continue to see D3 buff characters and rebalance others in the same update like they did recently. I do feel like this isn't something they are or will be very good at however. The amount of power creep, or one release way overtuned while the other is weak sauce, and how minimal they have buffed characters that needed them in past, gives me zero confidence we can count on D3 to do a good job rebalancing in either direction. 

There is only one team in the game now that doesn't have a quick AND effective counter: Hulkoye.

Kitty/BRB are effective against it but not quick, so you can't really use them for quick hops. Bishop was effective but he's in the past now.

Perhaps make Hulk deal his passive damage only once every two turns. Or change his power so that Okoye don't boost him, like 4* Juggernaut. Then we are good. I don't see any other character needing a nerf. Only buffs to weaker characters.

BriMan2222

tonypq said:

Also I'm really sick of the way mew 5s are rolled out. I absolutely hate the store they have before they hit latest legends where the new 5 is paired with 2 older ones and you have to use CPs. I wish they would give each 5 a special store where it's just that one 5 and you can use LLs or CPs, maybe keep the store open just a few days but give players a chance to really target that new 5 they want the most before they hit the LL trio store. This would still give those who horde or 4* players a chance to build a bunch of pulls for the LL trio, and also allow others who have 5* rosters built up skip the trash characters and just spend hard earned resources on the ones we really like most.

They actually did used to do a special cp store with just the new 5 star.  I remember saying cp and spending on the new store for thanos and covering him really easily since he was the only possible 5 star.  I imagine that is the reason why they stopped that,  it takes somewhere around 300 pulls up cover 3 five stars in latest legends,  so a store with only one possible 5 star should only need about 100 pulls. 

It wouldn't be all that hard to save 100 pulls worth of cp from one release to the next.   I guess they felt that those stores made champing 5 stars too easy. 

Daredevil217

I actually like the new release plus two classics format. 

I hear people on Line say Classics are a joke at this point due to dilution. But if you’re filling out your 4* roster and collecting 5* just to play their essential nodes, then not so much. There’s a place for them, even if it isn’t for you. 

These new release stores are the same. They are becoming less important to me as I’m down to three unchamped classics I would need to pull for in a store.  And the ones I’m missing are not likely to be frequent repeats (Banner/Wasp/FA Cap). But I remember how I was able to finish so many classics in these stores and it’s nice to be able to make more targeted progress when the opportunity arises. I wouldn’t want to take that from players who are in that stage of that game and would like a little more target progress in this world of RNG. 

Mr_F

tonypq said:

I'd love to be able to use the majority of my roster instead of the same 4 or 5 characters for all content.

Then use! The only thing that stops you from that is your way of thinking! If I only used my "best" characters for

I would not enjoy X-23 or Gwenpool or Black Widow 4* or Maria Hill or whatever.

Yes, I use meta characters too like Karnak, Juggs or Cardusa when I have too or to leave a better defensive team. I know that some combos Are just "best" or some champions are better. But if you preffer stagnation over enjoyment then go for meta teams only. I've chosen enjoyment. 5/5/3 X-23 is helleva annoying on defense (her healing just prolongs the battle up to 11) and helleva satisfying on offense. Trust me, I've seen it on my own defeats and victories. I won many fights with Wolfsbane invisibility and like less than 1k health. Or with Mockinbird/Widow IW/Gwenpool combo. I just started to enjoy my roster.

One of my go to teams if called "protect karnak" which I use to counter him. Invisible Woman/Juggs/Karnak. Use Juggs to tank Karnak 4th turn spam if I cannot collect yellow to fire invisibility. I enjoyed to kill Peggy/Pre-nerf Bishop/Deadpool teams with Valkyrie/Iceman/X-23. I even have a working team for Maria Hill! Still trying to find a team for Spider-Woman (Jessica), my newest 4* champion.

MrDupaTM

I would love to nerf any 4* character that people would rather choose unchamped, not boosted over boosted heroes in pvp.

It's pathetic when you're playing 2 boosted 4* and you're still losing against Kornak or Polaris teams that aren't even champed.

5* I don't care yet as I'm avoiding playing against them right now.

As for buffs I'd love to see Frost, Wolverine X-Force, The Punisher, Quake and Venom reworked next. And The Thing (as his recent buff attempt was pretty pathetic).

Borstock

Mr_F said:

tonypq said:

I'd love to be able to use the majority of my roster instead of the same 4 or 5 characters for all content.

Then use! The only thing that stops you from that is your way of thinking!

That's not true in PvP. The meta these days is so fast to massive dmg that you pretty much can't use teams that are dependent on active AP collection. You'll be dead before you get there.

Instantaneous turn 1 dmg from powers for the AI severely limits your options on offense. Let's not pretend otherwise.

HoundofShadow

There are a few 5* players who create contents in YouTube and they are using 4*/5* teams in PvPs. So, I think it's really a choice, and not something that has to be forced upon players. 

I always find the problem "80-90% of my characters are sitting useless. Give me a reason to use them." funny. Because more often than not, it will be followed up with "Reward me for using them." So, I think they are simply using them as pawns to bargain for better rewards, instead of really wanting to use them. 

Michael1957

HoundofShadow said:

There are a few 5* players who create contents in YouTube and they are using 4*/5* teams in PvPs. So, I think it's really a choice, and not something that has to be forced upon players. 

I always find the problem "80-90% of my characters are sitting useless. Give me a reason to use them." funny. Because more often than not, it will be followed up with "Reward me for using them." So, I think they are simply using them as pawns to bargain for better rewards, instead of really wanting to use them. 

I’ve resolved that problem from the beginning by not rostering every obviously useless character. I roster all 5* plus 25% of 2-4* tiers. The other 75% are in shard reserve for the 3-4 days a year they are required. Also leaves me with a huge HP & ISO surplus . 

acescracked

Michael1957 said:

IHulk isn’t a threat , it’s only the combo everyone uses him with . BRB is more dangerous on his own . I can see Polaris becoming the new hated  threat soon as more champ her . I’m already taking out a full Gritty with just her 9/13 and Okoye . 

Hoping for more people to use Polaris in PvP!! I usually climb late so would be nice to Q Polaris grills and have a quicker climb.

You may like Polaris for offense but just get ready for all the hits.

Mr_F

Borstock said:

Mr_F said:

tonypq said:

I'd love to be able to use the majority of my roster instead of the same 4 or 5 characters for all content.

Then use! The only thing that stops you from that is your way of thinking!

That's not true in PvP. The meta these days is so fast to massive dmg that you pretty much can't use teams that are dependent on active AP collection. You'll be dead before you get there.

Instantaneous turn 1 dmg from powers for the AI severely limits your options on offense. Let's not pretend otherwise.

As I said before, then use. Either you choose having to get to the top whatever everytime (and therefore using same teams everytime) or you choose enjoying your roster. Its a PLAYER'S choice.

A few months ago I decided/choosed to let others to rush into top everytime, exploit meta teams and whatever. I choosed fun. Chasing in MPQ always the best of the best equals to less fun, stagnation and boring repetition. So I decided that I rather enjoy my roster and go for it rather than join the chase.

For me it is a choice between "fun and less rewards" and "no-fun and more rewards". But what is the reason for more rewards when you will not use them?

Yes, existence of such dillemma  is a problem. With no clear solution.

jackstar0

Polaris is only going to be a problem when she enters challenge nodes at lvl 650, and even then, should be manageable.

Michael1957

jackstar0 said:

Polaris is only going to be a problem when she enters challenge nodes at lvl 650, and even then, should be manageable.

You know they’re planning a Gritty/ Polaris Or BRBitty/ Polaris CN . I can see the devs twirling their mustaches now . An Okoye/ Polaris combo means   any idea of using any tile maker to attack is suicide . 

MTP

Its funny how few say kitty/groot needs a nerf.  Yet i see countless teams running the two together in PvP.  IHulk is fine.  He has a good balance of pros and cons.  The other thing that needs nerf is names.  It should be blank.  Then you would see true PvP and not this line **** of coordinating attacks.  It should be called selective PvP.  If you can see the player name, it isnt PvP.

DAZ0273

MTP said:

Its funny how few say kitty/groot needs a nerf.  Yet i see countless teams running the two together in PvP.  IHulk is fine.  He has a good balance of pros and cons.  The other thing that needs nerf is names.  It should be blank.  Then you would see true PvP and not this line **** of coordinating attacks.  It should be called selective PvP.  If you can see the player name, it isnt PvP.

Kitty did need a nerf and there was major debate over it on these very boards but that boat has probably sailed now and she is manageable even with Bishop dead, as Polaris is going to punish Gritty teams. They won't ever nerf R4G - it would cause mayhem to PvE with thousands of players having their play time extended across all levels and they are a one-trick pony who might even get replaced by Polaris when players get her champed.

PiMacleod

If you think using characters is a choice -- you're not wrong... but it also tells me that you have a LOT more free time than the rest of the MPQ community.  

I don't compete for PvE placement -- never have.  But I do play for progression in PvE.  I barely touch PvP... I play a bit here and there, but nothing big at all.  That said...

For a normal PvE event for progression-only advancement, it takes me around 1.5 hours per day.  This is either done in one "sprint", or (more often than not) in multiple tiny sessions throughout the day.

This 1.5 hour average amount of time is due to my "meta" teams.  Ever since I got my first meta team established (Gritty), I noticed a DRASTIC reduction in my progression-play time requirement.  Now, to be fair, back before I had Gritty, I had a much longer play time per day, but I also had a job where I had more "downtime" and I was able to fit it in during those hours.

If you have a demanding job/career, any amount of significant others/kids/etc, a social life... finding time to play ANY game is hard.  I'm a gamer, and have been for over 35 years.  My time to 'game' has been cut more and more over the years, due to responsibilities to my family, my job, my social life, and more.  Now, on the flip side, there are those that don't have much in one or more of those categories.  I know a couple people that have a good career, but no significant other, no kids, and keep to themselves... I know another who is well-off, with little responsibilities on the side.  People like this have the time to put into games (or other hobbies).

To assume that it's a 'choice' to use meta characters is to assume that they also have the same amount of time to play as you.  The counter is to say "well, you don't have to play as much -- don't play for progression -- play a different amount -- maybe don't play MPQ"... which is only valid if THAT'S the sort of game that the developers want.  But I HIGHLY doubt that it is.  In fact, we know it's not, because the developers WANT people that have less time-than-money.... in the hopes that they can dig into your wallet.

In the end, the existence of a meta is expected for ALL games with a character roster, and it should be used by the devs as a measuring stick, so that they can see who needs to be brought up, and perhaps who needs to be knocked down a tad (depending on the level of strength differential).  Notoriously, when games have a more diverse meta, the game usually has a more supportive community, since there isn't a large population of people calling for similar nerfs/buffs.  And, maybe I'm just naive, but I'm pretty sure that the devs would rather have LESS people calling for nerfs/buffs in unison. 

But lets be honest -- one of the BIG draws of this game is collecting marvel characters, powering them up, and using them in fights.  If you don't get the rewards, rostering these characters take a LOT longer.  Shoot -- progression-only will still take someone a few events straight in order to POTENTIALLY champ a new 4*.  That's a LOT of hours/days of play!   Progression, or even placement, in PvE and PvP both require a large amount of DAILY time.  If you're playing only for fun, then you're probably not worried about progression OR placement... 

Sooooooo, in order to get the characters that someone would like to use (i.e. the draw of the game), you need the rewards/resources so that you can have a chance at getting them to champion levels.  To do that, you need to play plenty of PvE and/or PvP per day.  You can use who you wish, but using a META team will cut your time down by quite a lot.  And if you have the responsibilities I mentioned earlier, you're going to want to cut down that time requirement.

-- its either that, or spend to keep up, or submit to not getting the newest characters for months/years (or just quit, like some people I know have).

We all know these things.  I don't think I've said anything particularly profound -- I've just laid it all out there together, really.   If you want people to use MORE of their roster, then make MORE of the roster comparable.  If this can be done by lifting people out through buffs, then please do so!  If someone is SO far above the rest that it'd be easier to just knock that one person down a peg or two, then do it.  For the health of the game and for the sanity of player-base, I support changes like these that'll breathe more life into my roster (i.e. more of my 5*s are usable in PvP now that Bishop is gone).

Mr_F

TLDR: stoping the complains, squeezing own butt is a solution to many MPQ problems. It did work for me.

Even more TLDR: do or do not. There is no try.

Less TLDR:

You see, there is more to that.

Of course there exist teams like 5*Thanos + Grocket which allows to cut the time of PVE clears to 30 minutes or so. Or Hulkoye. Or whatever. Yes, I agree. But

1. If I, transitioner to 4* land, can clear PVE SCL7 ~1,5 h with no meta teams, constantly be in top 100 of EVERY PVE and PVP or at worst situation top 200 without using meta teams more than 20% of the time then anyone can choose a proper SCL and finish top 100. And that 20% of time does not include any 4* Rocket, Kitty or whatever usage. My "meta" is equal to Karnak/Juggs/IW, 3* Strange and Cardusa. Which means that 80% of the time I use anybody else. I;ve been enjoying Winter Soldier and Wasp combo few events ago. Yesterday Cardusa with Venom.

2. If you hit for progression (PVE) and wins (PVP) rewards then the time is not a problem.  I mean, I was constantly annoyed by the fact that I do not have to watch dramas or tv shows etc. Generaly, lack of time for many things. It was until I reorganised my day and I found that time with no loss in other activities or duties. Yes, its hard sometimes. Sometimes even impossible. But more often than not it is a matter to squeeze your butt and find the solution. Of course day has only 24 h so sometimes you can not squeeze more. That is a moment of choice.

3. Enjoy your roster does not mean skip meta. In means, for me, whenever possible (lite you have time, possibility pr whatever) use other characters. If you do not have time - cause of family or other duties - then it is understandable.

4. A certain youtuber keep showing us that it is possible to some extend to use other champions and beat the meta.

5. I believe that most of the people did not even tried most of the characters who are not meta unless they are essential and keep complaining that 90% of characters are trash. After I lost or the fight was dragged to absurd amount to 5/5/3 X-23 in PVP I respeced her and I am enjyoing her more in that spec.  Its a matter of I tried to find a way to get out of MPQ stagnation. And I was successful in that.

6. Be a positive.

jp1

It seems obvious that truly terrible and truly great characters are released this way by design. They are extensively play tested, I’m sure they see these “flaws” before dropping them into the game.

The gulf between them is what makes some 5*s seem “OP” which simply shouldn’t be a thing given the commitment to reach that level of play...they should be amazing. It’s all to drive revenue, it will continue this way until the death of MPQ because it works, it gets people spending heavily to chase the amazing new release, and it makes them happy when they are no longer tortured by them on opposition after they are nerfed into oblivion.

It’s smart (albeit shady) business.

HoundofShadow

F2P game has always been time or money. If you have neither time nor money, don't expect to catch up. If finding time to play MPQ is a difficult task, I recommend playing MPQ (console version). Complete the game and then completely forget MPQ. Move on and use your time on other games or activities.

Can you see the big differences between playing MPQ (F2P) vs playing MPQ (console), as far as time spent is concerned?

PiMacleod

Mr_F said:

2. If you hit for progression (PVE) and wins (PVP) rewards then the time is not a problem.  I mean, I was constantly annoyed by the fact that I do not have to watch dramas or tv shows etc. Generaly, lack of time for many things. It was until I reorganised my day and I found that time with no loss in other activities or duties. Yes, its hard sometimes. Sometimes even impossible. But more often than not it is a matter to squeeze your butt and find the solution. Of course day has only 24 h so sometimes you can not squeeze more. That is a moment of choice.

Perhaps if the person was lazy and didn't want to find other ways to do things, sure.  Also, you mentioned SC7 in your reply... I'm doing SCL 10.  Once again, this is fueled by rewards.  5* shards are there, and that's one of the top prizes in the game.  To be handed (basically) half of a 5* cover for just doing progression is a big deal.  

These "non-meta" teams you mention -- Sure, depending on the boost list, they could work decently.  But can they win in 4-5 moves against a set of opponent that have around 50-to-60k health each?  Probably not.  Heck, the meta teams don't even do that ALL the time... board luck plays a big factor.

If you think it's just "willingness", well, I hope you're willing to accept that other people might be doing something different.  They just might be experiencing SCL 10... and a job.  And a family.  And ...oh, i dunno.... other games?  

I've been around since beta.  I've played with a bunch of different builds and at many times, have found answers to problematic teams in PvP.  I remember when I found that Bishop/Quake/Nightcrawler was a slow-n-steady solution to a popular team once upon a time... i loved doing that, but only when I had the time to play the match.  It's not the problem of finding a solution to a particularly hard opponent -- this time, it's TIME ITSELF that's the problem.  When there's easy solutions to generate seemingly "free" AP with a true healing tank, that's an easy bet.  Or a boost machine for turn 1 strikes...  or a boost machine for team damage dependent on just matching TU tiles...  This is easy stuff.  It requires the MINIMUM of board luck, and makes it so that a win will happen before 10 turns on SCL 10 on even some of the hardest nodes.  A non-meta team will not do this regularly unless there's a very lucky board...

I don't present this to say "Hey, you're wrong...".  There's a forum full of people here who know how the meta is and why it is.  And for all games, it's not made by the devs, but by the players.  The players (generally) find the combination of characters, abilities, etc, that have the lowest amount of risk or negative variables, and will exploit it to its fullest.  If there's another option that is just as good -- then they'd use it!  It won't sneak by an entire forum... there are plenty of people on here with varying insights and experiences that would find such a solution -- and then they'd post it!  

So, if you're doing good at SCL 7 with your non-meta teams, having fun with it, and doing good... awesome.  Just awesome.  But realize that what you're saying cannot apply to all SCLs and to all lifestyles...  SCL 10 has 3* and 4* characters with the health of 5*s or better.  Mix that with a full schedule, and you have a recipe that leads players to picking the best solution to save time, every time.

Is this bad?  No.  It's just how games are.  Especially competitive games -- everyone wants those prizes, and if you have to compete (either against others OR time, or both!), then you're gonna pick your top option(s).

To say that there's another way to play this game outside the meta is to say that the meta itself is wrong, and to say that is to generalize that the community as a whole hasn't found the solution(s) that you have.  Sure, there are pioneers that find new teams/combos/etc, and maybe you're just THAT person who's holding all the cards.  Just keep in mind that these meta teams are tried-n-true by a giant userbase.  If there are other solutions outside of it... then why don't we see them more often?  I don't think it'd be laziness -- because even a lazy person would want to finish a match faster.  Perhaps their rosters aren't as developed as yours?  Maybe...  I dunno how your roster looks, but I assume its decent, with you stating "transitioner to 4* land".

In the end, the only way I'm gonna save time is to drop down in SCLs... which will lower my rewards... which will lower my drive to play... which will probably remove me from the game over time.  Not a bad thing, honestly -- but I kinda wanna stick around for a while.  After all, over 2500 days in, I kinda wanna see where this thing is going.  You know, go down with the ship and all that. .... I really need to stop looking at this forum on my breaks... wasting time! 

Edit:  I probably should mention this -- I mentioned "the only way I'm gonna save time..."  This isn't just about ME, though.  I'm not the only one that pours time into this game.  I'm not the only one looking for a faster team/better solution.  And I'm not the only one looking for the best rewards I can get for the least amount of stress.  So, when I speak using my own experiences above, just know that it's purely MY experience that I speak of, and that I cannot be so wholly unique as to have experiences unlike anyone else.  There are others like this.  ... I probably shouldn't have said anything to begin with.  I only spoke up because the argument of "time usage" is something that every adult with responsibilities with a hobby is something that they are truly mindful of.  If there's other solutions to be FASTER or EQUAL at SCL 10 clearing, I'd hope that it would be shared, instead of held close to someone's chest.  And I'd find it hard to believe that others with more time haven't found it and posted it already.