Next to be rebalanced *cough* Nerfed???

Borstock

SnowcaTT said:

Borstock said:

iHulk. He is completely broken.

iHulk is the pefect character for D3. It cost so, sooooo many healthpacks for both users and attackers. Taking on the mirror - very, very easy to wipe even against much, much smaller ihulk.

As a 550 ihulk user, I've been told by several BRB players they can beat me 100% of the time. I've been shown basically exactly that by a few players out there (not 550's). So....yeah. When talking nerf, let's focus on the right one shall we? The one that has been the bigger problem for the last two years?

That iHulk can reliably be beaten is not an argument against a nerf. Bishop could reliably be beaten. So could 4* Cap. And so can Polaris.

Instant team damage without the need to even make a match first was ridiculous when it was released and it's still ridiculous now. I have no doubt D3 did it on purpose to drive up the sale of healthpacks, especially after Gritty became more manageable thanks to BRB. But it's still the most broken combo the game has ever seen. It makes matches pointless. It makes firing active powers pointless. Just survive long enough and you win. You can't even stun and target iHulk first, because he comes back, PLUS they made stunning harder now that they nerfed Bishop.

You should AT LEAST have to make matches to do significant damage. Hulkoye makes that unnecessary and breaks the game.

SnowcaTT

ThaRoadWarrior said:

The difference is iHulk comes with brutal teamkiller damage that can’t be reduced as a drawback

*cough* Quake *cough*

ThaRoadWarrior

Quake doesn’t reduce self harm cough

HoundofShadow

Max champed Quake reduce AoE by only 6997.  450 Okoye and iHulk need only 2 TU to negate her passive. The % of players with max champed Quake is very low. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Someone asked why iHulk “gets” to benefit from WF and Juggernaut doesn’t. iHulk comes with. Risk/Reward built in in the form of unblockablw self harm and team damage and juggernaut does not. Personally I feel Juggernaut as written should get to take advantage of it, and have a thread going to that effect about which powers do and don’t work with it.

Acemontiero

Dealing with infinite hulkoye teams in pvp finally put me off mpq. Sure, you can beat them, but it's just not fun to bother with.

Well, hulkoye and spending 1-1.5 hours per day on pve.

Anyway, I quit a couple weeks ago and it's been a relief more than anything else. I haven't missed anything but a few people I used to talk to on a daily basis.

Mr_F

Polaris? I do not want to start ne thread yet but I think that she is OP.

I believe that we do not need to turn her into oblivion but her passive dmg should be reduced. Its crazy for me that a mere presence of single character can in few turns down tanks like Juggernaut.

I tried to fight her few times and I reached into conclusion that best option in most cased is "skip". Its not like I cant beat her or something. Its I choose not to fight her because of:

-I want to save up to 3 healtpacks

-I do not want enter a fight which turns into flipcoin because of her presence.

-I do not want start a fight when board level of excellence is stepped down (Her presence just turns decent board into bad and bad into uber bad etc. especially with Rocket etc.)

-I do not want to fight someone who can down ANY tank in my land in few turn EVERY time without RNG.

HoundofShadow

Polaris is easily countered in mirror match again R4G/Polaris. Sabretooth is a very good counter. Based on what I see, not all Polaris is paired with tile spammers like R4G or BRB. I see a lot of defensive Polaris teams as well. In this case, any other team can take her down easily without eating three healthpacks. Again, if you are eating 3 healthpacks per match, then it could be due to team composition, or really bad luck. 

Mr_F

I comment it this way:

For me best option to not risk a flipcoin loose to Polaris is "skip". Every other 4* be it in PVP Simulator ot Regular PVP can be beaten with multiple options and I most of them I do not have to "skip" boosted characters as viable options.

But if best situation with Polaris is a risk of flipcoin loose... If I HAVE to bring whatever champion (be it Polaris or Sabretooth or whatever) to win or reduce flipcoin loose chances to reasonable number... If I HAVE to consider NOT TO USE booster characters... IF I have to use healthpacks (no matter what, I have to use et least one every time I face her)... IF etc. then its a problem.

None other 4* requires me to bring anything to be beaten. Sure Juggernaut against Karnak or Medusa Against Cardusa ARE best options but I can win without them too with not much effort. For me Polaris passive damage outpoot is to high.

HoundofShadow

By constantly avoiding, you won't be able to improve your game. 

As mentioned, you can pick opponent teams with Polaris without R4G. Common teams that I see in pick 2 are:

Polaris &:
Karnak, Sabretooth, Kitty Pryde, Medusa

I  don't see how her passive output will be high since there will be only one special tile on the board most of the time with the above opponents. It's 135 damage per special tile plus her strike of 270 at five covers for a 270 Polaris. Based on my experience fighting R4G and Polaris, opponent's Polaris will be downed on turn 3.

DAZ0273

Polaris is squishy, you should be able to target and kill her before she does too much damage. If the problem is that the enemy team has a special tile improver then bring some boosts to whoever you have with a cheap stun in that colour and stun the enemy Kitty/Nico/Hellcat/whoever and then go after bad Polaris. Rocket is nearly always left to last unless there is somebody like OML or Phoenix who killing first is a bad idea.

Mr_F

For me, Polaris/Rocket is same level problem as Hulkoye. Bring same to fight same. Use healthpacks afterwards. The only difference is Hulkoye is 5* land problem and Polaris/Rocket is 4* land problem.

Sure, both teams can be beaten. Easier or harder. But still: Polaris is shutdowning ~half of my roster. Any tile creator champion is risky. Both offense and defense. ~50% of 4* create special tiles.

Michael1957

Polaris is too low HP to be OP. Any character you can kill in 2 turns is irrelevant. Again , it’s the TEAMS , not the character, that can make her formidable. Limit team use, MPQ

Mr_F

But IMO she is.

We can say the same about Hulkoye: It is THE PAIRING with Okoye that makes iH so strong. Its not the existence or design of Hulk. Its existence of both.

With Polaris its even worse since ITS the DESIGN of her that make her so formidabble in so many pairings especially with Rocket or BRB. The fact that I can go full progression in CL 10 with unchamped Polaris and 1/1/1 lv 300 BRB should give ya a slim tought of her power. The fact that best way to counter her or Polaris/Rocket combo is own Polaris/Rocket combo... The fact that Cardusa can be paired with Her in place of Mr. F. and be deadlier... The fact that people use(d) her with 6-7 covers onward with success... Does it not OP to you all?

BUT I believe she deserve small nerf. Not like Bishop or Worthy.

HoundofShadow

Polaris will probably be nerfed in two years' time. How does your roster look like right now?

Mr_F

See the link in my sign. I update Gamependium once a week. I chase W5sp so Squirrel Girl and Ant Man are shargeted. Next to champ is Taskmaster, Polaris, Kate Bishop, Coulson, Cyclops, Nebula, Peggy - in that order. Other 7 are ready to be champed.

DAZ0273

Whilst it is certainly true that Okoye makes him better, in my opinion iHulk offers a different set of frustrations because you can't just kill him and be done with it because he keeps coming back. At least when Polaris is gone she is gone (well unless Jesus Cap is around and feeling resurrection-y)

ThaRoadWarrior

It seems to me there are a ton of characters who can 1-shot a 4* with Polaris levels of health, assuming your MMR is matching you up against reasonably leveled Polari. @Mr_F Nebula may be better for you as a Polaris counter since her green ramps up damage based on the number of specials on the board. Seems like Medusa doing auto damage to her from turn-2 would be viable, particularly with a power adder. I again bring up Dazzler, who will stun + remove N enemy specials when she takes very low relative damage, and for a 4* player it shouldn't be that hard for her to tank something. Mr Fantastic should be able to have fun vs a Polaris team, probably with C4rnage, just firing off free powers left and right...I don't know, she seems strong but not Problematic to me mechanically, but i"m a 5* player so my perspective is skewed.

PiMacleod

DAZ0273 said:

Whilst it is certainly true that Okoye makes him better, in my opinion iHulk offers a different set of frustrations because you can't just kill him and be done with it because he keeps coming back. At least when Polaris is gone she is gone (well unless Jesus Cap is around and feeling resurrection-y)

welp, i now have my new nickname for that Cap.  thanks, @DAZ0273 !

Mr_F

ThaRoadWarrior said:

 she seems strong but not Problematic to me mechanically, but i"m a 5* player so my perspective is skewed.

TY for advices. Yes, exactly. In 4* land Polaris is a beast. Its not like there are no options but those are limited.

Lets look at Bishop: he was hard. But he required from me a bit of strategy how to approach him. I had few dozens of option who to bring to deal with him. I could use same team and do 3 times in row Peggy/XF Deadpool/prenerf Bishop with 1-3 healthpacks used.

But Polaris is kinda different. Unless I use BRB or other protect tiles spammer I may not survive or will need to use health packs if I have to use same characters for whatever reasons. And it is no matter who will I use as 2nd (& 3rd) option. Thats the problem.

Nebula may not survive long enough to collect & use Green. Dazzler... I dunno. Mine is 3/3/3 lv 131. Juggernaut is shredded. X-23 (x/5/x build) may not keep up with healing (4k damage per turn from Polaris requires for Laura to make 3 moves per turn to keep. 4k Polaris can do easily with Rocket). Karnak is too squishy and later he tanks. I may not be even be able to use invisibility. Medusa... Maybe. But I have to bring Carnage or Polaris. Iceman and other stunners are risky (I may not be able to collect AP). Etc.

Basically: forget what ya have. Bring own Polaris.

That is the problem for me. The only viable counter for Polaris requires Polaris and Rocket/Medusa/Carnage/whatever to reduce the healthpack used. Its like prenerf Gambit for me. Use hammer to deal with hammer.