Next to be rebalanced *cough* Nerfed???

ThaRoadWarrior

People want to win, and quickly, because that is the only thing the game directly rewards. Using suboptimal teams when you "have" to play this many matches a day just doesn't appeal if you have teams you can use to do the same thing quickly. I continue to maintain - the core mechanic of this game is not matching gems, it's opening tokens. The final bosses are not the Dark Avengers, it's RNGeezus controlling who you do and don't get to roster and at what strength level.

Also what works for a player at a certain MMR won't work for other players at a different MMR. Similarly "we" don't all have the same roster, so someone getting hammered by juggernaut may not have Quake available to them. Certainly Quake is laughable in the face of a champion Okoye/iHulk team. I really used to want to use Nico, but a 2/3/0 Kitty in the low 300s was buffing tiles 100% faster than my higher-leveled Nico, and had more health, so...choice made, right?

KGB

@Mr_F

I use Quake against Grocketnaut all the time. Helps me get from 1700->2K in Shield Sim every season. But you won't ever find my team when you are searching because I never ever leave out a defensive team with Quake. Instead I do what everyone else does and leave out as strong a defensive team as I can.

The fact that the last team used is what stays on defense is why you, Michael1957 and so many others only see a few teams over and over when skipping.

I've said before in other threads (esp ones involving nerfing Bishop) that the game would be better off if it instead presented at random, *any* team you used during that event. Then players wouldn't be able to leave out strong defensive teams unless they only used 1 team for the entire event.

So for example if during an event I used 4 teams of Grocket/Juggs, America/Karnak, Polaris/Grocket, Medusa/Carnage then when someone queued me they would be presented with 1 of those 4 teams and random and if you queued me again you would again be presented with 1 of those 4 teams at random.

KGB

Daredevil217

Michael1957 said:

As of now 95% of PvAI battles I’m offered contain 2 to 3 of the following;
1 . Polaris 
2. Kitty
3 . BRB
4. Rocket4
5. Apocalypse 
it’s amazing we have over 200 characters and yet only 2.5% are used.
Singularly these characters are harmless and no nerf is needed if they appear without one of the others . I’d rather see a limit on frequency of specific team use. 

If you’re a 5* player, I’d find it very very hard to believe that you aren’t seeing Hulkoye at least 40% of the time. Clearly the most queued team. 

KGB said:

the game would be better off if it instead presented at random, *any* team you used during that event. Then players wouldn't be able to leave out strong defensive teams unless they only used 1 team for the entire event.

Which is exactly what players would do. I mean I like fun teams as much as anyone, but heck I’ve done it some events. BRBitty to climb (wastes very little packs with the boosted shields). Hulkoye to finish. Neither of these metas are particularly fun to face. Basically if you put up a roadblock, players will find a way around it. 

Mr_F

Yes, I agree. Totally agree with ya guys. I would be happy if I could use more teams.

People, IMO, does not get one thing: if everybody chase meta then its like suicide: you're killing yourself with stagnation. Its infinity loop: if you use only what is "best" then you have to face same. That is the problem with Hulkoye.

But it is not players fault only. Its dev fault too for creating some of the characters. As soon as we get out of the stagnant meta and got some variety we ended in another. Since release of BRB we pointed out that his blue is too cheap and how long we had disussed Bishop's OP? Two years?

What we need is a simple yet not much hurting players solution. Not an easy task but here are examples of what I think is a good "quality" change:

-Making 5* Wasp swarm tiles being indestructible and unmathable.

-Making 4* Elektra to convert more tiles (for example 4) and more more types of tiles (for example strike/attack/protect at 3 covers and all types at 5) and disabling usage or purple power when no enemy tiles are present.

and in terms of gameplay from other perspective:

-enemies "seen" revamp: I mean having max champed 4* and boosted does not mean I can face 5* champion teams.

ThaRoadWarrior

Mr_F said:

... if everybody chase meta then its like suicide: you're killing yourself with stagnation. Its infinity loop: if you use only what is "best" then you have to face same. ...

Once you champ Wa5p, you will find that you are only being served opponents based on raw character level, and not character quality, so you too will have to face the "best," but the only weapon in your arsenal will be "the worst." That really wasn't fun when I did it with Ghost Rider, who is decidely not the worst, but still very far from the best, I can only imagine it with Wa5p.

Mr_F

@ThaRoadWarrior

I said it once, I said it twice, I say it again: few minutes after I champ Wasp I will champ few others 5* too. I know this game enough to know not to enter a gunfight with a knife.

On topic. What I meant was this: if you use only "best of the best" (read: also easiest and fastest) then it is your fault too that the meta is in stagnation. Again. BUT we can not blame people for they desire to use besties.

Real life example (https://natemat.pl/152501,miasto-nie-przyjazne-obywatelom-chodniki-budowane-wbrew-wygodzie-mieszkancow):

if you have a square lawn sourunded by square pavement then one person moving across the lawn ("not using pavement") does not make a distaer to a lawn. But the more people use that shortcut the more the lawn would be destroyed.

Point is: it is not solely a pedestrian fault that there is no pavement across the lawn. People are not Pacmans and can do more turn than 90 degrees. Its a designer fault too.

That is my statement. We need more BETTER options. Preferably by boofing existing characters and/or SMALL changes to existing ones so it would encourage players to use more characters.

Captain_Carlman

Watch the next nerf be something completely out of left field, like Mysterio or something.  Just reminds me of when they nerfed 4* Kingpin by shackling his black to countdowns out of nowhere...  for some reason.

Polares

Captain_Carlman said:

Watch the next nerf be something completely out of left field, like Mysterio or something.  Just reminds me of when they nerfed 4* Kingpin by shackling his black to countdowns out of nowhere...  for some reason.

Coff coff that was a buff coff coff 

Vhailorx

Polares said:

Captain_Carlman said:

Watch the next nerf be something completely out of left field, like Mysterio or something.  Just reminds me of when they nerfed 4* Kingpin by shackling his black to countdowns out of nowhere...  for some reason.

Coff coff that was a buff coff coff 

That was a change to make him harder to fight in pve.

BriMan2222

Daredevil217 said:

Michael1957 said:

As of now 95% of PvAI battles I’m offered contain 2 to 3 of the following;
1 . Polaris 
2. Kitty
3 . BRB
4. Rocket4
5. Apocalypse 
it’s amazing we have over 200 characters and yet only 2.5% are used.
Singularly these characters are harmless and no nerf is needed if they appear without one of the others . I’d rather see a limit on frequency of specific team use. 

If you’re a 5* player, I’d find it very very hard to believe that you aren’t seeing Hulkoye at least 40% of the time. Clearly the most queued team.

I think that probably depends on how much pvp you are playing.  Personally I see a wide variety of teams people are using to climb early in the event.  I don't see much hulkoye until I get to around 900 points and above, ant that's when hulkoye becomes almost all that I see.  So if he is just entering the event early and not climbing terribly high or worrying about placement I could see not coming across a ton of hulkoye.

Mr_F

BriMan2222 said:

Daredevil217 said:

Michael1957 said:

As of now 95% of PvAI battles I’m offered contain 2 to 3 of the following;
1 . Polaris 
2. Kitty
3 . BRB
4. Rocket4
5. Apocalypse 
it’s amazing we have over 200 characters and yet only 2.5% are used.
Singularly these characters are harmless and no nerf is needed if they appear without one of the others . I’d rather see a limit on frequency of specific team use. 

If you’re a 5* player, I’d find it very very hard to believe that you aren’t seeing Hulkoye at least 40% of the time. Clearly the most queued team.

I think that probably depends on how much pvp you are playing.  Personally I see a wide variety of teams people are using to climb early in the event.  I don't see much hulkoye until I get to around 900 points and above, ant that's when hulkoye becomes almost all that I see.  So if he is just entering the event early and not climbing terribly high or worrying about placement I could see not coming across a ton of hulkoye.

You just brought some hope into my adventures with 5* Wasp.

Daredevil217

BriMan2222 said:

Daredevil217 said:

Michael1957 said:

As of now 95% of PvAI battles I’m offered contain 2 to 3 of the following;
1 . Polaris 
2. Kitty
3 . BRB
4. Rocket4
5. Apocalypse 
it’s amazing we have over 200 characters and yet only 2.5% are used.
Singularly these characters are harmless and no nerf is needed if they appear without one of the others . I’d rather see a limit on frequency of specific team use. 

If you’re a 5* player, I’d find it very very hard to believe that you aren’t seeing Hulkoye at least 40% of the time. Clearly the most queued team.

I think that probably depends on how much pvp you are playing.  Personally I see a wide variety of teams people are using to climb early in the event.  I don't see much hulkoye until I get to around 900 points and above, ant that's when hulkoye becomes almost all that I see.  So if he is just entering the event early and not climbing terribly high or worrying about placement I could see not coming across a ton of hulkoye.

While I’d normally agree, he said 95% of the teams he queues only have five characters.  As a 5* player, if I’m only seeing 5 characters, there’s no way Okoye isn’t on that list at minimum (Hulk as well, but he’s almost exclusively tied to Okoye). 

ThaRoadWarrior

Occasionally come across Hulk/Thano5 and Hulkpocalypse, but it’s usually Hulkoye for me too

Steve111

Obviously 5 Wasp, she is way OP

Mr_F

Steve111 said:

Obviously 5 Wasp, she is way OP

Louder, please. Nobody has heard ya.

SnowcaTT

Borstock said:

iHulk. He is completely broken.

iHulk is the pefect character for D3. It cost so, sooooo many healthpacks for both users and attackers. Taking on the mirror - very, very easy to wipe even against much, much smaller ihulk.

As a 550 ihulk user, I've been told by several BRB players they can beat me 100% of the time. I've been shown basically exactly that by a few players out there (not 550's). So....yeah. When talking nerf, let's focus on the right one shall we? The one that has been the bigger problem for the last two years?

I actually see a fair amount of variety in PVP right now since BRB doesn't need another 5* to go with it anymore. Honestly the one character that needs a nerf is Polaris, and we're only going to see that more and more as everyone gets their Polaris bigger and bigger.

All that said - players have been asked time and again "Nerfs or Buffs?" and the buffs option always wins by a large margin.

MrPlow

Is having iHulk play with the same rules as 4* Jugs considered a nerf.  Cause I don't see the difference between their similar power.

KGB

MrPlow said:

Is having iHulk play with the same rules as 4* Jugs considered a nerf.  Cause I don't see the difference between their similar power.

IHulk's Green benefits from Okoye's WF while Juggs does not. This is the reason his passive is SO much better than Juggs passive. Plus he lives an infinite amount of lives so you can always put him up front to die over and over again if any enemy powers are going to fire. Okoye is his perfect partner with her WF damage boost and her Yellow true heal so that she survives all the damage from IHulk reviving.

KGB

ThaRoadWarrior

The difference is iHulk comes with brutal teamkiller damage that can’t be reduced as a drawback

Michael1957

BriMan2222 said:

Daredevil217 said:

Michael1957 said:

As of now 95% of PvAI battles I’m offered contain 2 to 3 of the following;
1 . Polaris 
2. Kitty
3 . BRB
4. Rocket4
5. Apocalypse 
it’s amazing we have over 200 characters and yet only 2.5% are used.
Singularly these characters are harmless and no nerf is needed if they appear without one of the others . I’d rather see a limit on frequency of specific team use. 

If you’re a 5* player, I’d find it very very hard to believe that you aren’t seeing Hulkoye at least 40% of the time. Clearly the most queued team.

I think that probably depends on how much pvp you are playing.  Personally I see a wide variety of teams people are using to climb early in the event.  I don't see much hulkoye until I get to around 900 points and above, ant that's when hulkoye becomes almost all that I see.  So if he is just entering the event early and not climbing terribly high or worrying about placement I could see not coming across a ton of hulkoye.

That just explained why I never see any Hulkoye, I only play to place in top 50-100, around 700. Thanks ( And my combo team is Hulkoye I just don’t want to place that high , not worth my time or shielding .