SCL10 Mission Changes

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  • froggerjohn
    froggerjohn Posts: 373 Mover and Shaker
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    Excellent post by @DAZ0273 about needing to ascertain "why" players who are certainly capable of SCL10, still choose to play lower levels.

    I think the devs nailed the primary reason anyway, "time". They missed the mark a little bit on FFW, but sounds like they'll still try to get it worked out so that SCL10 is eventually 5 clears. Dropping one of those max-level grind clears should make a very notable time difference.

    From my POV (single champ 450), I very much want to experience the challenge of SCL10 content. The WtS events are some of the most fun I've had in MPQ to date. But I can't commit to the kind of time sink that SCL10 would be for me with all that grinding.

    I seriously hope they'll change the CN to a 1x clear, as originally announced. That and the grind reduction would really solve the time issue, IMO.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    From bluewolf's reply

    "They further said on Discord it was not as easy as they were hoping to set up the 2 hits going to 0 points" 

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,295 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    From bluewolf's reply

    "They further said on Discord it was not as easy as they were hoping to set up the 2 hits going to 0 points" 

    To be clear, I don't know if it was a math issue, a tech issue, something ultimately easy or something hard to adjust.  I am paraphrasing a little, so we just need to wait and see.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    What's more important now is that we know that their actual plan is 3+2. However, they are facing problem(s) implementing this. The only thing we can do is to wait for them to solve them.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    What's more important now is that we know that their actual plan is 3+2. However, they are facing problem(s) implementing this. The only thing we can do is to wait for them to solve them.
    I agree the issue is how long will it be? 2 events?  4 events?  20 events?  While this just happened and know we will not get an answer this week, it is worrisome to some people about this.   It took them a year to get rid of tapping but only 1 season to move away from V1 Wins PVP (I may have had a part in that with all the tracking i was doing and positing).   It is very hard to tell with D3/Demi on how this will fall.  I hope it is a quicker fix than longer.  
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,937 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    What's more important now is that we know that their actual plan is 3+2. However, they are facing problem(s) implementing this. The only thing we can do is to wait for them to solve them.
    I agree the issue is how long will it be? 2 events?  4 events?  20 events?  While this just happened and know we will not get an answer this week, it is worrisome to some people about this.   It took them a year to get rid of tapping but only 1 season to move away from V1 Wins PVP (I may have had a part in that with all the tracking i was doing and positing).   It is very hard to tell with D3/Demi on how this will fall.  I hope it is a quicker fix than longer.  
    They might not even have any idea how long it will take. It's quite likely that the original person(s) who coded the timers and refresh rates are no longer working there since this feature is many years old now. Whomever is there now may not be a coding expert in this area (in a mature game like this I would expect most of the developers to be user interface, art, sound, character development etc). So someone(s) may be taking deep dives into code they didn't write that likely isn't well documented.
    One thing for sure is that changing the grind from 3 to 2 means that the refresh rate on points in CL10 will be faster than the other CL's because to refresh from 50% to 100% over 24 hrs will require more points per second than going from 66% to 100%. This means that CL10 will be disadvantaged early during the refresh phase and advantaged late during the refresh phase. Who knows if they will even attempt to solve this.
    KGB
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Based on their livestream a few days back, these were the things in the pipeline

    1) possible new function/ui to choose characters for battle
    2) new healing mechanic with the introduction of Anti-Venom - completed
    3) new goons
    4) working on new feature/function coming up for anniversary
    5) something geared specifically towards the more veteran players in the near future. - semi-completed

    I think it could be after anniversary if the issue is not easy to solve.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    KGB said:
    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    What's more important now is that we know that their actual plan is 3+2. However, they are facing problem(s) implementing this. The only thing we can do is to wait for them to solve them.
    I agree the issue is how long will it be? 2 events?  4 events?  20 events?  While this just happened and know we will not get an answer this week, it is worrisome to some people about this.   It took them a year to get rid of tapping but only 1 season to move away from V1 Wins PVP (I may have had a part in that with all the tracking i was doing and positing).   It is very hard to tell with D3/Demi on how this will fall.  I hope it is a quicker fix than longer.  
    They might not even have any idea how long it will take. It's quite likely that the original person(s) who coded the timers and refresh rates are no longer working there since this feature is many years old now. Whomever is there now may not be a coding expert in this area (in a mature game like this I would expect most of the developers to be user interface, art, sound, character development etc). So someone(s) may be taking deep dives into code they didn't write that likely isn't well documented.
    One thing for sure is that changing the grind from 3 to 2 means that the refresh rate on points in CL10 will be faster than the other CL's because to refresh from 50% to 100% over 24 hrs will require more points per second than going from 66% to 100%. This means that CL10 will be disadvantaged early during the refresh phase and advantaged late during the refresh phase. Who knows if they will even attempt to solve this.
    KGB
    Agreed; they aren't making a simple change that could be applied across the whole game.  Pve points timers predate slices, and gave already been tinkered with several times (remember 2:24 refresh timers? How about 8-hour refreshes?).  So figuring how to create different timer behaviour across different slices is probably a coding nightmare.
  • ElReyFelix
    ElReyFelix Posts: 102 Tile Toppler
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    As a regular Scl 10 player who plays to progression, I am very happy with this change. It definitely makes things quicker and it's a positive QOL change. Thanks!
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    KGB said:
    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    What's more important now is that we know that their actual plan is 3+2. However, they are facing problem(s) implementing this. The only thing we can do is to wait for them to solve them.
    I agree the issue is how long will it be? 2 events?  4 events?  20 events?  While this just happened and know we will not get an answer this week, it is worrisome to some people about this.   It took them a year to get rid of tapping but only 1 season to move away from V1 Wins PVP (I may have had a part in that with all the tracking i was doing and positing).   It is very hard to tell with D3/Demi on how this will fall.  I hope it is a quicker fix than longer.  
    They might not even have any idea how long it will take. It's quite likely that the original person(s) who coded the timers and refresh rates are no longer working there since this feature is many years old now. Whomever is there now may not be a coding expert in this area (in a mature game like this I would expect most of the developers to be user interface, art, sound, character development etc). So someone(s) may be taking deep dives into code they didn't write that likely isn't well documented.
    One thing for sure is that changing the grind from 3 to 2 means that the refresh rate on points in CL10 will be faster than the other CL's because to refresh from 50% to 100% over 24 hrs will require more points per second than going from 66% to 100%. This means that CL10 will be disadvantaged early during the refresh phase and advantaged late during the refresh phase. Who knows if they will even attempt to solve this.
    KGB
    Oh I know this isn’t an easy change by any means, and I know I don’t have the answers for this, but this will be an issue with the points between 9 and 10 at the higher end of the game.  We will see how this affects players on that level.  
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,162 Chairperson of the Boards
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    As a progression only player, I'm down with this change to 3x clears only. I don't know if it overly saved me a ton of time, but any time reduction in PVE is welcome.
  • abominatrix
    abominatrix Posts: 221 Tile Toppler
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    The rockett said:
    Oh I know this isn’t an easy change by any means, and I know I don’t have the answers for this, but this will be an issue with the points between 9 and 10 at the higher end of the game.  We will see how this affects players on that level.  
    I don't know about anybody else, but I know how I feel about it, and I have to believe that anybody in a top alliance feels similarly.

    This was actually pretty simple. The devs wanted to improve the quality of life for people playing CL10. A noble goal. They had to know there were two significant issues that they've acknowledged (on discord rather than on the game's official forums where ANY OTHER GAME would have posted them); the score difference between CL9 and CL10 and the fact that their goal was to cut the grind down to 2 clears instead of 3 (as well as the clears to 3 instead of 4). So, as annoyed as I am about this for a large number of reasons that many others have already pointed out, I really only have one question:

    What was the rush?

    I have to assume an extra week would have allowed these issues to be resolved, or they could have messaged the goals of the changes differently and correctly, or... anything other than botching another roll-out and squandering good will. Again.

  • Akroma
    Akroma Posts: 77 Match Maker
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    personally, i like the changes. i mean is only 1 clear, but for people that play for progression is a good thing. and for the ones that do max, is still an improvement. of course not a big one.

    i posted because i wanted to say, that the last thing they are doing, are good. but we most of the times see the negative only.

    the "new heroes" event give only 15 and 10 shards? hahah is too litle i know, but they took the time to program a new event, with the story of the character etc, before this, it was this new hero came out, the end.


    i remember having a bad imrpession when they changed from bonus to shards, and it was a loss. but what happened in the long term? being able to give shards on rewards WAS a very good change. now we can safely say that shards are better than bonus, based on now we can get 5* and 4* as rewards.


    i also thing the final clears have to do with the way it is programmed. like saved teams is already there, u get ur last team saved, except this time is for more teams ( i remember when every fight you would have the 1st 3 heroes, not the last team used haha) maybe its like this, as with shards, this is the first iteration on new changes on scl10.

    :)
  • Feliz
    Feliz Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
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    I seriously love the new changes, much quicker for me to get pretty much the same stuff! As a family man I welcome less time required for almost the samd rewards :):)
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAZ0273 said:
    bluewolf said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Thanks for the confirmation. So, it's 3+3 and players save between 5-15 mins per day, depending on their roster strengths.

    Top players can clear within ~20 mins, and those with the right 5* with level slightly higher than 450 (460-480?) can clear it in ~30 mins. Some cleared SCL 10 in 1.5 hours. It's quite a big difference.
    I'm pretty sure the gap between players with 550s and 460s is a lot more than 10 minutes.

    I mean I guess it depends on the player but I think it'll still be like 40 minutes for a fast 460 player at minimum.  Depends on the event, I guess.

    I mean - this. The top players aren't going anywhere anyway and this QOL change for them is not really the intended target. The stated intention is getting people into SCL10 and I don't really see how this is going to achieve that.
    Currently s1 scl10 does rarely even flip. I believe this change is to target those that just aim for max progress. Going from 4 hits down to 3 is a 25% reduction, plus it was mentioned earlier that the hits are actually easier as well  since the enemy only increase 30 levels instead of 40. 
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards
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    KGB said:
    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    What's more important now is that we know that their actual plan is 3+2. However, they are facing problem(s) implementing this. The only thing we can do is to wait for them to solve them.
    I agree the issue is how long will it be? 2 events?  4 events?  20 events?  While this just happened and know we will not get an answer this week, it is worrisome to some people about this.   It took them a year to get rid of tapping but only 1 season to move away from V1 Wins PVP (I may have had a part in that with all the tracking i was doing and positing).   It is very hard to tell with D3/Demi on how this will fall.  I hope it is a quicker fix than longer.  
    They might not even have any idea how long it will take. It's quite likely that the original person(s) who coded the timers and refresh rates are no longer working there since this feature is many years old now. Whomever is there now may not be a coding expert in this area (in a mature game like this I would expect most of the developers to be user interface, art, sound, character development etc). So someone(s) may be taking deep dives into code they didn't write that likely isn't well documented.
    One thing for sure is that changing the grind from 3 to 2 means that the refresh rate on points in CL10 will be faster than the other CL's because to refresh from 50% to 100% over 24 hrs will require more points per second than going from 66% to 100%. This means that CL10 will be disadvantaged early during the refresh phase and advantaged late during the refresh phase. Who knows if they will even attempt to solve this.
    KGB
    If I had to guess, the timer function is coded as a generic sub routine that simply count down with a global 30% reduction value. It needs the scl input to determine and change the reduction value accordingly. How difficult it is to do so in unknown unless you have the source code. 
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Update:

    Sub 2 clear: 21 mins (4-5 mins quicker maybe)

    Sub 2 grind:  35 mins (went too quick and could have done 32) saved no time exactly has before. 

    Sub 3 clear:   19 mins (about 4-5 minutes quicker if that). 

    Will update for the full event at end.  Again the end grind is still the same which is the drag.  
  • PapaBurger
    PapaBurger Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
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    No need to change the timers. Just reduce the number of wins required to start the timers from 3 to 2. That would pretty much accomplish the same thing. 

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