I Spy rewards - new PVP design? Horrible.

124

Comments

  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pongie said:
    Being a 900 and shield out player, I honestly didn’t even noticed the change. I know the cp at 1000 was nice but for the most time it was there, I think I could count on one hand where I was bothered enough to reach it. 
    I was a 900 and out, then I became a 1000 and out, cos I could regularly get there without hopping. 1200 takes more time and hops, so may end up back as a 900 player. Scl10 pve is taking up time so minimising time on pvp. 
  • Treras
    Treras Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    Amazing. No comunication but that's nothing new around here.
    Only noticed the change when reached  1100 points and no cp increase. Also doing this on a pvp where almost everyone is running bosted Bishop is a kick in the nuts.

    Can't wait for them to *adjust rewards" in cl10 pve...
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020
    I was thinking about all this and realized there's (presumably) some bean counter at D3 that thought we should all be shorted owed rewards, which lead to Shardpocalypse.

    I assume it wasn't Brigby  :D and that same person is still at D3, and might have led the charge on this change.

    And yes, I can imagine them one day deciding half a 5 in progression is just too much...I can imagine it much too easily.  So one day we'll suddenly get 200 instead of 250 or something.  Or maybe they'll just increase the progression rewards to require 6X on everything.  Not hard to imagine at all.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe many stopped at 1000? In the past, CP was at 1200/75 wins. It's possible that the number of players who used to play to 1200 has dropped a lot and the number of players who played more is not enough to "make up" for the drop. Thus, it affects the "players' engagement" metrics. 

    Alternatively, it could be they are shifting towards more predictable rewards, rather than one that gives unpredictable rewards. 350 shards is predictable and 18 CPs is not.

    Or 18 CP is more valuable than 350 shards and naturally, it should be back to the top. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020
    I find it unlikely that devs will reveal the reason(s) for the change if it's related to a business decision/goal. However, if it's something requested by the players, I think they might let us know in advance. Even if that's the case, I don't think the end result will be any different, or it might be worst.

    Looking at the rhetorics in this thread, any one been here long enough can see how the conversations will go in that thread about this, if there were one. Since letting players know in advance won't change their minds or opinions, they might as well let the players notice it themselves.


  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I find it unlikely that devs will reveal the reason(s) for the change if it's related to a business decision/goal. However, if it's something requested by the players, I think they might let us know in advance. Even if that's the case, I don't think the end result will be any different, or it might be worst.

    Looking at the rhetorics in this thread, any one been here long enough can see how the conversations will go in that thread about this, if there were one. Since letting players know in advance won't change their minds or opinions, they might as well let the players notice it themselves.


    @HoundofShadow
    i find myself actually agreeing with you on 1 and only 1 point. Letting players know in advance would not have changed their opinions.  You are 100% spot on with this, but I ask you this question.  

    Do you think it was right for this Dev team to change the rewards for pvp WITHOUT communication to the player base AND doing this while still in season (which has never been done before......ever)? Do you think that is acceptable?  
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I find it unlikely that devs will reveal the reason(s) for the change if it's related to a business decision/goal. However, if it's something requested by the players, I think they might let us know in advance. Even if that's the case, I don't think the end result will be any different, or it might be worst.

    Looking at the rhetorics in this thread, any one been here long enough can see how the conversations will go in that thread about this, if there were one. Since letting players know in advance won't change their minds or opinions, they might as well let the players notice it themselves.


    @HoundofShadow
    i find myself actually agreeing with you on 1 and only 1 point. Letting players know in advance would not have changed their opinions.  You are 100% spot on with this, but I ask you this question.  

    Do you think it was right for this Dev team to change the rewards for pvp WITHOUT communication to the player base AND doing this while still in season (which has never been done before......ever)? Do you think that is acceptable?  
    Well the game is theirs. So they have the right to do and undo what they want. And for that we are here, for providing good arguments and feedback. So they can considere it and change if its good acording to game interest. And they will be the first interested in doing so.
    Just happens that sometimes the game interests are not the same as ours
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020
    Bad said:
    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I find it unlikely that devs will reveal the reason(s) for the change if it's related to a business decision/goal. However, if it's something requested by the players, I think they might let us know in advance. Even if that's the case, I don't think the end result will be any different, or it might be worst.

    Looking at the rhetorics in this thread, any one been here long enough can see how the conversations will go in that thread about this, if there were one. Since letting players know in advance won't change their minds or opinions, they might as well let the players notice it themselves.


    @HoundofShadow
    i find myself actually agreeing with you on 1 and only 1 point. Letting players know in advance would not have changed their opinions.  You are 100% spot on with this, but I ask you this question.  

    Do you think it was right for this Dev team to change the rewards for pvp WITHOUT communication to the player base AND doing this while still in season (which has never been done before......ever)? Do you think that is acceptable?  
    Well the game is theirs. So they have the right to do and undo what they want. And for that we are here, for providing good arguments and feedback. So they can considere it and change if its good acording to game interest. And they will be the first interested in doing so.
    Just happens that sometimes the game interests are not the same as ours
    I appreciate @The rockett for pointing out that this happened DURING THE SEASON.  Yes, it was the last event of the season, but was still a low blow.  It also was done during a "synergy push" or whatever you want to call this string of special events for a movie that was sadly delayed for 6 1/2 months.  Both those things make it weird to me and especially bad timing.

    Maybe they thought if they made it happen for the last event, it would keep people playing and perhaps adapting to their new normal, vs skipping off season events out of anger (easier to do that) and not coming back to PVP or playing less.

    The game's interests should primarily coincide with players' interests within the constraints of "going to try to get you to spend money to get the things you want".  When it blatantly doesn't, that convinces a few more people to move on and the game playerbase shrinks a little more.  The meager attempt at balancing this by tossing in 25 extra 4* shards for SCL10 players going to 1000 points is not in any way a reasonable trade-off for me.

    Demiurge in their recent press about buying themselves  back was hyping their experience in "games as a service".  The service was lousy around this change and I would give it a 1/10.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I notice that they rarely make threads (that is not Sneak Peak or Rxxx)  or communicate about "minor" changes, but they do for major changes like Saved Covers and Shards etc. It seems that changes are made during off season or after the end of season. I don't track this type of things. I think there are new member(s) on the dev team and maybe it could be one of them who are "new" to how things have always been done. There has been a few changes to how things "should have been" in the last few months and I think this might not be the last. 

    I can't decide whether switching the rewards is right or not because none of us has the full picture. Maybe someone hit the wrong button or enter the wrong code. The only thing we know is that they switched the position of shards and CP, and for players who don't play much, CP is at 13 wins instead of 11 wins. Shards at 1000 points got a small increment. Players who played for the 18 CP are not happy with the change.  

    If they remove the entire 18 cp from progression, then I think it's not right. 

    I doubt they will answer this and make changes to it, unless future data proves otherwise. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,268 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't think this is a case of "hit the wrong button". The first ranch of CP has been repositioned from 450 to 500 and it was 575 before that. I commented when SCL10 went live that basically PvP had been split in to two phases. The first part being Wins based where it was nearly as efficient to get the new lower amount of wins as it was the points and then with the second part then being about getting to 1000 points which was much more efficient than playing Wins based but obviously brings new challenges. It seems this is a correction of that situation especially with that first CP hit being made maybe too "player friendly", which also saw the bottleneck shift in terms of where players were hitting the wall. If you want your CP you will have to either grind out those wins or learn how to play points based if you didn't know before.

    As for communication on this issue, obviously this change pushes back on how some people play PvP and from that aspect it is an important change. I can see the "can't win either way" argument but I disagree that Radio silence is ever a good business tactic. You should at least try and explain to your customers why you are changing things, even if they are unlikely to like what they hear.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    When it was only I Spy, I thought maybe it was a bug or error.   Maybe.  Once Redacted opened up with the same targets, it was clear it was the "NEW AND IMPROVED!" PVP reward design.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020
    I think timing-wise, someone might have hit the wrong button. I remember reading reports of I, Spy not having the season tag. It was rectified later. Also, IceIX got many details wrong in the latest updated sneak peak thread, even though he checked the details again. Someone out there must have made some mistakes, probably someone new to the team, or new to that role.

    The changes would have still gone ahead, likely beginning from off season. Regardless, we'll probably have to wait another two months(?) to know if things change again. The PvP rewards were updated two months(?) ago.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,439 Chairperson of the Boards
    This type of change would ordinarily have warranted a Patch Note on the release threads at least, I'd imagine. I don't really love this change much, but even at 1k points/50 wins I was hardly getting the second drop of CP. With SCL10 being such a time/health sink in PVE, PVP has been a 10-cp-and-out proposition as often as not for me.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I think timing-wise, someone might have hit the wrong button. I remember reading reports of I, Spy not having the season tag. It was rectified later. Also, IceIX got many details wrong in the latest updated sneak peak thread, even though he checked the details again. Someone out there must have made some mistakes, probably someone new to the team, or new to that role.

    The changes would have still gone ahead, likely beginning from off season. Regardless, we'll probably have to wait another two months(?) to know if things change again. The PvP rewards were updated two months(?) ago.
    I dunno where you get the idea that there would need to be a 2 month wait to see if things change.

    When the PVP went all-wins-only and CP were in placement, they reversed that after one single season because it was immensely unpopular.  It was not a minor thing, it was a major initiative with a big announcement and everything.

    In terms of hanging your hat  on the "Time Season" tag signaling some bug, the I Spy event prior to being live did not have that tag but it appeared once it was actually running.  The exact same thing happened with the Four Score PVP (pick an FF member) prior to it being live. Obviously there could be an issue with getting new events' preview pane up correctly and all that in terms of how they display.  But Four Score's rewards were the same as the other PVPs around it, and it had the appropriate season tag once it was live, as well.

    IF there was a mistake on this reward structure, surely by now the dev team is aware the community is not happy with it and would take it upon themselves to comment on it.  Some people on the dev team are actually still fairly active on the forum in the bugs section and other places and surely they at least look at new threads to see what topic is being discussed. 

    Look, it's fairly obvious that having the CP at 1K was easier to get and lead to less shielding, as many players don't care that much about placement.  Less shielding means less HP use and the goal of the game for the devs is constantly increasing spending, revenue and profits, and this is one way they can try to influence that.

    None of that makes me happy when they had switched it to a more player-friendly structure and have now shifted away from that.  I will express my displeasure in the ways I find appropriate.
  • Dougfresh413
    Dougfresh413 Posts: 125 Tile Toppler
    I'm really disheartened by this change.  The overall dip in CP given out in the new shards reward structure was frustrating, but eventually I found a very satisfying solution that worked for my style of play.  I only play to progression in PVE but I found SCL10 too difficult and time consuming for my roster. Instead of going up to SCL10, I actually dropped from SCL9 down to SCL8 in both PVE and PVP.  Amazingly, I found this kept the overall amount of time I spent playing each day similar to before, and with the CP set at 1000 points in PVP, I was actually earning a similar amount of CP as before.  I have never once been able to hit 1200, so now these CP are beyond my ability to collect.  This puts a big damper on the CP I was collecting, and puts me back at the drawing board for how to continue to make progress in this game.  For me personally, this is compounded by the fact I was screwed by RNG in my quest to get BRB (took 436 pulls to fully cover him), so now my hoard is depleted.  No hoard in combination with the faster release of 5's means I likely have little to no chance to collect iHulk before he leaves latest, which means I'll never get him.  Bye, Bye meta which means bye,bye to PVP b/c it's impossible to climb in those tournaments without the meta characters.  I agree with nearly every other post, this kind of change needs to be communicated to the player base before it goes into effect.  I view that as just common courtesy. 
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2020
    TBF, it’s probably better for them to lose players and attract new ones under a normal economy. That said, when disaster strikes, you should shore up your relationships.

    I’m operating under the belief there has been a change of game economy planned for a while now, wouldn’t be surprised if there was a planned PR campaign to attract said new players.

    Businesses are run how they are run, we’re all just drawing conclusions. Mine is that there should be a push for vets and the rest of us to stick around. Not sure the new hotness approach will work. If it were me, I’d probably make VIP & Bonus Drops a little more rewarding, x2?

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