I Spy rewards - new PVP design? Horrible.

245

Comments

  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020

    Hey Dev team. Can we get some type of comment on this? This is a bit insane that players are tagging people in charge of the forums yet nobody wants to answer. Can somebody that cares at D3 please answer us? Is that too much to ask?

    @IceIX
    @Demiurge_[bagman]
    @LakeStone

    @fight4thedream
    Can you even get a note to them to answer this?

  • Natural_0x14
    Natural_0x14 Posts: 8 Just Dropped In
    edited April 2020

    I did not see anything in the R200 notes. Did anyone see something mentioned about this PvP change? I do agree, this change does not make sense. The CP provides versatility on what can be pulled.

  • MrPlow
    MrPlow Posts: 240 Tile Toppler

    I can get to 1000 pretty easy but have never been over 1100 let alone 1200 mostly because a lot of the times the points for winning a match drop to the low teens and single digits. Looks like I'll be missing out on 54 CP a week or about 3000 CP yearly.

  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,207 Chairperson of the Boards

    They will give us the bad news today so we can be grumpy over the weekend.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020

    @bluewolf said:

    @DyingLegend said:
    They will give us the bad news today so we can be grumpy over the weekend.

    Don't expect any announcement. Their options were:

    1. Announce nothing and proceed with the change. We get angry.
    2. Make the announcement about the change. Proceed with the change. We get angry.

    It is likely that we will post MORE angry comments in response to an official thread and announcement vs just putting it through.

    And what is their rationale? Consider:

    1. 1200 was a lesser reward (a partial 4). It's just better to get CP than shards for any player in 5 land and really, anyone, barring a few meta 4s. So the reward design was a little strange to not have the top prize be hardest to get. You could see that being something they might decide to change, to make your top prize be the best one.
    2. The lower CP point breaks (than now, apparently) mean easier to get CP and less engagement (play time). Also less shielding to get to 1K than 1.2K (less HP use). So these changes create a need for MORE time spent in PVP (assuming you don't decide to nope out) and MORE HP use for the same goal you wanted before. Also, CP is the top prize in the game and this change will likely result in slightly less "free CP" being given out.
    3. The small increase in 25 4* shards is their attempt at a trade-off here? I guess?

    Now.... you could create some argument about harder to get reward being more valued and creating a more challenging and engaging game environment that makes the game more fun to play.

    But they gave us 2 months of easier-to-get CP and they made it harder to get. No one will like it.

    So let's be honest, the (apparent to me) reasons to make this change are not going to win them any points. So I don't expect any official communication.

    Maybe, but this is one of those situations where I tend to think that getting out ahead of the news pays dividends later, even if there is short term pain.

    Demi could just say something like: after evaluating the new PVP rewards structure for two months, we felt that some revisions were needed. We feel that the revised rewards offer a better flow from least valuable to most valuable, and we hope this change will be better for the game moving forward."

    Would some people here be pissed? sure. But some others would be fine with it. And others would fall back on 'this is bad news, but i appreciate the communication'. etc. And demi/d3 don't need to keep everyone happy; they just need to keep the playerbase atomized enough that we all yell at each other and not at them.

    Plus, in the long run being communicative about stuff like this would build up customer goodwill that will help them the next time they have to make a bad change.

  • argle_bargle
    argle_bargle Posts: 88 Match Maker

    I'm not a high points player. Just someone with too much free time. I've been grinding to 50 wins for the command points after the last restructure, but aside from release events, I am not grinding to 75. I guess I'll stop at 40 again.

  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards

    When they nerfed resources at least an upside was that they moved the cp to 50 wins so losing cp in pve wasn't so bad because I could make it up in pvp. So now I'm going to be losing 18 cp every single pvp event since I can't hit 1200 and damn sure won't grind out 75 wins in 5* land?

    I challenge anyone at D3 or Demiurge to do a livestream of grinding out 75 wins with both a 4* roster and a 5* roster of baby champed characters. Go ahead. I dare you.

  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,605 Chairperson of the Boards

    @shardwick said:
    When they nerfed resources at least an upside was that they moved the cp to 50 wins so losing cp in pve wasn't so bad because I could make it up in pvp. So now I'm going to be losing 18 cp every single pvp event since I can't hit 1200 and damn sure won't grind out 75 wins in 5* land?

    I challenge anyone at D3 or Demiurge to do a livestream of grinding out 75 wins with both a 4* roster and a 5* roster of baby champed characters. Go ahead. I dare you.

    Nobody going for 75 wins is grinding it out like that. And I've done it with that roster, so it's not near as impossible or daunting as you imply it would be. I get that you don't like the change, but using hyperbole like this to make it out to be worse than it is is only going to hurt your point that it's bad in the first place.

    There are legitimate complaints here, but comments like this are only going to make them roll their eyes.

  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,233 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Vhailorx said:

    Plus, in the long run being communicative about stuff like this would build up customer goodwill that will help them the next time they have to make a bad change.

    If only.

    Boss events? Gone, no word on when or if they're coming back.

    SHIELD Training? Gone, same.

    Gwen Prix? Gone, same.

    Support Circuit? Gone, same. Wasn't the most popular event but still.

    Communication is simply not a strong point for them at this point in the game's life. Which is to say, on the decline, getting ever closer to its end. I'm sure it can continue on in this state for a couple years yet; the Marvel license probably guarantees it that much.

    I think I'm right there with you at "DDQ only" again for a while. I know I'm hardly a top player or big spender or anything but I have been poking around for ~5 years. Finally champed some 5* even. Honestly don't like it much. Funny, that. Reach the endgame and discover it's really not that fun. Probably means it's about time to pack 'er in.

  • Loosie
    Loosie Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker

    @optimus2861 said:
    Boss events? Gone, no word on when or if they're coming back.

    They did say the next Boss Event will be in May.

  • Kusik73
    Kusik73 Posts: 11 Just Dropped In

    It just feels like there is a huge void between the developers and the player base. If I didn't know better I would think the game is starting to fail and they're just trying to get what they can while they can. For now I'll stay positive and assume this was a bug or mistake and will get fixed next PvP.

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,972 Chairperson of the Boards

    @The rockett said:
    Hey Dev team. Can we get some type of comment on this? This is a bit insane that players are tagging people in charge of the forums yet nobody wants to answer. Can somebody that cares at D3 please answer us? Is that too much to ask?

    @IceIX
    @Demiurge_[bagman]
    @LakeStone

    @fight4thedream
    Can you even get a note to them to answer this?

    Sorry man but there is not much I can do in this situation. My duties are primarily custodial; I don't hold any sway over what the dev team chooses to comment on.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @fight4thedream said:

    @The rockett said:
    Hey Dev team. Can we get some type of comment on this? This is a bit insane that players are tagging people in charge of the forums yet nobody wants to answer. Can somebody that cares at D3 please answer us? Is that too much to ask?

    @IceIX
    @Demiurge_[bagman]
    @LakeStone

    @fight4thedream
    Can you even get a note to them to answer this?

    Sorry man but there is not much I can do in this situation. My duties are primarily custodial; I don't hold any sway over what the dev team chooses to comment on.

    I would not assume you have any sway over their posting decisions, but if their mods started PM'ing the community managers to say that the boards are getting agitated, might that raise this issue to someone who does have control over posting decisions a little faster? (Not at all telling you what to do fight4, I am honestly curious about the feedback channels you might have with d3.)

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,972 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Vhailorx said:
    I would not assume you have any sway over their posting decisions, but if their mods started PM'ing the community managers to say that the boards are getting agitated, might that raise this issue to someone who does have control over posting decisions a little faster? (Not at all telling you what to do fight4, I am honestly curious about the feedback channels you might have with d3.)

    I take your question.

  • mhorham
    mhorham Posts: 28 Just Dropped In

    @JHawkInc said:

    @shardwick said:
    When they nerfed resources at least an upside was that they moved the cp to 50 wins so losing cp in pve wasn't so bad because I could make it up in pvp. So now I'm going to be losing 18 cp every single pvp event since I can't hit 1200 and damn sure won't grind out 75 wins in 5* land?

    I challenge anyone at D3 or Demiurge to do a livestream of grinding out 75 wins with both a 4* roster and a 5* roster of baby champed characters. Go ahead. I dare you.

    Nobody going for 75 wins is grinding it out like that. And I've done it with that roster, so it's not near as impossible or daunting as you imply it would be. I get that you don't like the change, but using hyperbole like this to make it out to be worse than it is is only going to hurt your point that it's bad in the first place.

    There are legitimate complaints here, but comments like this are only going to make them roll their eyes.

    I also have ground out 75 wins for a new 4*'s shards but it's a pain to do considering all the meta teams that are out there. Once again i'm not saying it's impossible just that it's a pain and is for me an exception rather than the rule. So from my perspective he has a legitimate point about the 75 wins. He also makes a good point about the loss of cp in pve being made up in pvp. So my question would be are the cp rewards in pve going back to what they were.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards

    Another note on communication.....I will hope for the best, but consider.

    The game pushed in SCL10, the biggest single change in years. They announced a set of rules (CNs don't count for points for the event) that was worded poorly, obviously, in retrospect. They set up identical (mostly) points for SCL9 and 10. This was confusing to many top players.

    We asked them if it was intended. We asked them why the points counted towards the event. Just simple clarification was all we wanted, to understand the rules surrounding PVE, the mode that the majority of players engage in. Lots of players ignore PVP, but basically every single player plays PVE if they play more than DDQ.

    Did they take some time to clarify? Just a few minutes to clarify the rules?

    Do I need to tell you the answer?

    Do you expect any communication about this, then?

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards

    @OJSP said:
    I'm not sure what pushing for communication is going to achieve. At the moment, Demiurge _[bagman] is actively replying in the Bugs and Technical Issues section about the game's graphic bugs. Tombstone and IceIX replies from time to time, in a reasonable timely manner if they chose to do so.

    Perhaps the situation with Discord when it was perceived that they were approachable and replying to questions was deemed to be unnecessary? It seems like unless there's a real bug, they want the players to just accept the information from the game as it is provided.

    It is unfortunate that this is the step they chose to take, but it is what it is.

    Some people spend thousands of dollars on this game. I suppose they can DM devs and get answer to their questions?

    They hope/expect that people are treating this game as a service that you keep spending money on. I have spent hundreds over the years, maybe up to $1000 or more. Admittedly not a lot compared to some but it's also a video game which is completely inessential to my life beyond entertainment.

    If I called up, say, my cell phone provider and had a question about my service (let's say one day each text started costing me 0.05 again) and they just never replied I'd be like "time for a new provider".

    We are, many of us, looking closely at our expenditures, especially discretionary ones. I think better communication would be a good retention strategy but what do I know.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020
    OJSP said:

    @bluewolf said:
    Some people spend thousands of dollars on this game. I suppose they can DM devs and get answer to their questions?

    They hope/expect that people are treating this game as a service that you keep spending money on. I have spent hundreds over the years, maybe up to $1000 or more. Admittedly not a lot compared to some but it's also a video game which is completely inessential to my life beyond entertainment.

    If I called up, say, my cell phone provider and had a question about my service (let's say one day each text started costing me 0.05 again) and they just never replied I'd be like "time for a new provider".

    We are, many of us, looking closely at our expenditures, especially discretionary ones. I think better communication would be a good retention strategy but what do I know.

    Perhaps. But in the forum where people could have different names to their IGNs, it's very tedious to verify if a player spends a lot and merits a special communication channel. It's another avenue of communication that could already happen, for all we know. Communication through Customer Support seems to be another avenue, because it seems like they track our spending (just an assumption on my part).

    I didn't want to necessarily get hung up on "special treatment for whales" as much express as my apparently naive attitude of valuing treating customers well in an era where budgets are tight and people are exploring new habits and re-evaluating old ones, as we all experience a massive break in our routines.

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