New Feature in R191: Shards

Warbringa

I hate to break it to the people wanting characterless shards, but the devs probably won't move on it, just like with many issues brought forth in the forums.  The reason, as brought up many times before, is that we forums players are a small portion of the player base.  While perhaps having more experience, knowledge and interest in the game than the average player, they are going to make changes based on the surveys from the entire game, not just input here from the forums.  From a tactical standpoint, is shards a regression for some players given their style of play, certainly it is. Those players will be an even smaller portion of the player base, as you can see that there are forum players who are ambivalent or looking forward to the new system. My educated guess is that most players (not necessarily forum players) will like shards for a variety of reasons.  This is not a slight on the average player as the average player probably enjoys the game far more than we forum dwellers in many ways. 

If there is an easy way to modify this through the UI then maybe they can eventually put in a shard switching mechanic however I bet it is not an easy process to add and since it was not accounted for to begin with, it may be some time, if ever, that we see that change.  

I will offer my general solution to the devs that I feel is probably the most reasonable without overhauling the system as colorless shards would do.  Allow partial shards already earned on characters to be converted to HP.  Not sure what the conversion ratio would be but since we can now "buy" shards with HP, allow those shards that have been accumulated but now not wanted for a character to go back the player in HP so they can then buy shards for a different character when available in the store.  Is it perfect? No. Is is easier to implement than revamping the entire shard process/UI yes. Will you get 1:1 value on this, probably not but even if you can recoup a decent amount of the shard value, it would help against the complaints by some of the new system.  You still are dependent on waiting for that character to appear in the store but with daily stores, the wait shouldn't be terribly long, unlike the wait for HfH or special stores etc.  I apologize if this has already been suggested but I may have missed it in the past 21 pages 

Dogface

Again an example of a 12 cover situation. Just don't TH a character in that situation then if you 'fear' getting the 13th cover before the shards are complete.

And the chance to pull said 13th cover is extremely small. Most people would sooner complete the shards than get that cover just from a lucky pull.

crackninja

Warbringa said:

I hate to break it to the people wanting colorless shards, but the devs probably won't move on it, just like with many issues brought forth in the forums.  The reason, as brought up many times before, is that we forums players are a small portion of the player base.  While perhaps having more experience, knowledge and interest in the game than the average player, they are going to make changes based on the surveys from the entire game, not just input here from the forums.  From a tactical standpoint, is shards a regression for some players given their style of play, certainly it is. Those players will be an even smaller portion of the player base, as you can see that there are forum players who are ambivalent or looking forward to the new system. My educated guess is that most players (not necessarily forum players) will like shards for a variety of reasons.  This is not a slight on the average player as the average player probably enjoys the game far more than we forum dwellers in many ways. 

If there is an easy way to modify this through the UI then maybe they can eventually put in a shard switching mechanic however I bet it is not an easy process to add and since it was not accounted for to begin with, it may be some time, if ever, that we see that change.  

I will offer my general solution to the devs that I feel is probably the most reasonable without overhauling the system as colorless shards would do.  Allow partial shards already earned on characters to be converted to HP.  Not sure what the conversion ratio would be but since we can now "buy" shards with HP, allow those shards that have been accumulated but now not wanted for a character to go back the player in HP so they can then buy shards for a different character when available in the store.  Is it perfect? No. Is is easier to implement than revamping the entire shard process/UI yes. Will you get 1:1 value on this, probably not but even if you can recoup a decent amount of the shard value, it would help against the complaints by some of the new system.  You still are dependent on waiting for that character to appear in the store but with daily stores, the wait shouldn't be terribly long, unlike the wait for HfH or special stores etc.  I apologize if this has already been suggested but I may have missed it in the past 21 pages 

I think you are meaning shards set to the tier and not a specific character, not colorless, which is what shards are.
Assuming so, if anything I am better prepared to get over the disappointment in these scenarios because I get a solid number of pulls.  The casual player that waits 2-3 months even to get a four star TH only to find out they ultimately don't need it seems more likely to be upset and go from casual to disgruntled and done with the game.
Somebody may have already suggested it, but even just letting me transfer shards from one character to another at a 10% tax could work.  I could see them implementing it with a 25% tax which while obviously more painful, is still better than the current "sorry, not sorry".

Warbringa

crackninja said:

Warbringa said:

I hate to break it to the people wanting colorless shards, but the devs probably won't move on it, just like with many issues brought forth in the forums.  The reason, as brought up many times before, is that we forums players are a small portion of the player base.  While perhaps having more experience, knowledge and interest in the game than the average player, they are going to make changes based on the surveys from the entire game, not just input here from the forums.  From a tactical standpoint, is shards a regression for some players given their style of play, certainly it is. Those players will be an even smaller portion of the player base, as you can see that there are forum players who are ambivalent or looking forward to the new system. My educated guess is that most players (not necessarily forum players) will like shards for a variety of reasons.  This is not a slight on the average player as the average player probably enjoys the game far more than we forum dwellers in many ways. 

If there is an easy way to modify this through the UI then maybe they can eventually put in a shard switching mechanic however I bet it is not an easy process to add and since it was not accounted for to begin with, it may be some time, if ever, that we see that change.  

I will offer my general solution to the devs that I feel is probably the most reasonable without overhauling the system as colorless shards would do.  Allow partial shards already earned on characters to be converted to HP.  Not sure what the conversion ratio would be but since we can now "buy" shards with HP, allow those shards that have been accumulated but now not wanted for a character to go back the player in HP so they can then buy shards for a different character when available in the store.  Is it perfect? No. Is is easier to implement than revamping the entire shard process/UI yes. Will you get 1:1 value on this, probably not but even if you can recoup a decent amount of the shard value, it would help against the complaints by some of the new system.  You still are dependent on waiting for that character to appear in the store but with daily stores, the wait shouldn't be terribly long, unlike the wait for HfH or special stores etc.  I apologize if this has already been suggested but I may have missed it in the past 21 pages 

I think you are meaning shards set to the tier and not a specific character, not colorless, which is what shards are.
Assuming so, if anything I am better prepared to get over the disappointment in these scenarios because I get a solid number of pulls.  The casual player that waits 2-3 months even to get a four star TH only to find out they ultimately don't need it seems more likely to be upset and go from casual to disgruntled and done with the game.
Somebody may have already suggested it, but even just letting me transfer shards from one character to another at a 10% tax could work.  I could see them implementing it with a 25% tax which while obviously more painful, is still better than the current "sorry, not sorry".

You are right, should have actually said characterless shards....my bad!

ElReyFelix

For anyone wondering, the costs have been updated on page 1 of this thread

Kahmon

As I mentioned several days and several pages ago, I would much prefer to see shards separated by tiers instead of by characters. The obvious concern is abuse. I have a new idea that I want to offer up.

Just have 3 shard pools. One each for 3*, 4*, & 5*. As they reach their appropriate threshold, it triggers a colorless characterless cover with a 24 hour limit. This would be shown on the shards page, and could be spent on the characters ability page like previewed. The 24 hours prevents players from simply accruing blank covers.

This allows players to use their "bonus" cover on whoever they want at the time earned instead of who they thought they would want when they stared saving. In most cases this would still be the same, but prevents the disappointment at waste from the cases of pulling the needed cover right before hitting the shards for it.

It also allows players to open at the rate they wish. No matter the system, hoarders are going to hoard until it suits them to open.

Curious what you all think.

shardwick

3620 hp for a 4* cover. 1820 hp if you were thinking of going 50% shards/hp.

Vhailorx

Typical mpq, adding shards/targeted heroes, but taking away bonus heroes at the same time.  This two steps forward, one step back thing is exhausting. And locking shards per-character is just going to encourage even more hoarding, since shards are worthless unless and until you get enough for a cover.  In fact, 400 shards stuck on a 5* you no longer want (perhaps because of a nerf) is actively worse than 0 shards, since it's a massive opportunity cost.

Since the initial launch of ddq I can't think of major feature roll out that didn't also incorporate some bad-for-players poison pill at the same time.

Kahmon

Vhailorx said:

Since the initial launch of ddq I can't think of major feature roll out that didn't also incorporate some bad-for-players poison pill at the same time.

Pretty sure champ levels came after ddq, and positive saving covers did.
Bonus heroes too, but guess that doesn't count anymore.

HoundofShadow

The total cost for shards of each tier are:

3*: 1320
4*: 4320
5* (1 cover): 20795 + 3415 = 24210

4* is slightly more expensive. 

I wonder if latest 5* character can be bought in the shard store?

bluewolf

Kahmon said:

Vhailorx said:

Since the initial launch of ddq I can't think of major feature roll out that didn't also incorporate some bad-for-players poison pill at the same time.

Pretty sure champ levels came after ddq, and positive saving covers did.
Bonus heroes too, but guess that doesn't count anymore.

I still think that saving covers had a tradeoff.  Once they removed Latest weighting (50/50) players were thrown into the middle of the ocean of dilution with no tool that could help them (barring the meager bonus hero covers).  When Latest was a thing you could move into the 4 tier much more easily, although of course how effective those characters were was an open question.

I am maintaining a wait-and-see approach on shards to see if we get enough of them through other avenues to go beyond the 5% bonus hero drop rate.  If not, then this is IMO a loss for the playerbase as a whole.  We don't have enough information yet.

ZootSax

Kahmon said:

Vhailorx said:

Since the initial launch of ddq I can't think of major feature roll out that didn't also incorporate some bad-for-players poison pill at the same time.

Pretty sure champ levels came after ddq, and positive saving covers did.
Bonus heroes too, but guess that doesn't count anymore.

Shield Clearance Levels (with the corresponding massive influx of iso-8) also came after DDQ.

Vins2

Kahmon said:

Vhailorx said:

Since the initial launch of ddq I can't think of major feature roll out that didn't also incorporate some bad-for-players poison pill at the same time.

Pretty sure champ levels came after ddq, and positive saving covers did.
Bonus heroes too, but guess that doesn't count anymore.

I don't know the exact timeline, but I link the addition of the cover saving feature to the shutdown of the unofficially official 1:1 5* cover swap.  A definite give and take there, and a specific case in support of not spending for the first round of h4h shards (if you think it's too expensive).  Enough people complained about the 5:1 cover trade ratio that they knocked it down to 3:1.  Hopefully those who did trade at the bad ratio, but it did prove that positive change can come from voicing your displeasure.  

I link the addition of bonus heroes with the removal of the latest 12 50:50 weighting.  

I don't remember when shield clearance levels were introduced to the game, but maybe that was tied to the big change of pve timers going from every 8 hours to 4 clears.  

Some positive changes that I don't think had an anchor tied to it:
Behemoth daily for 2 cp
10 cp at the 575 point in pvp - really big help for me as a 3* player trying to build a hoard

Vhailorx

ZootSax said:

Kahmon said:

Vhailorx said:

Since the initial launch of ddq I can't think of major feature roll out that didn't also incorporate some bad-for-players poison pill at the same time.

Pretty sure champ levels came after ddq, and positive saving covers did.
Bonus heroes too, but guess that doesn't count anymore.

Shield Clearance Levels (with the corresponding massive influx of iso-8) also came after DDQ.

Shield rank brought the iso infusion, but also locked a whole bunch of players out of a whole bunch of tiers of play.  That's arguably a mixed bag depending on a player's roster strength, but this is probably the best feature added post ddq.

Bonus heroes came with 4* vaulting and latest 12.  That was a big negative for a large number of players.

The champion system came with a re-structuring of weekly boosts/level scaling that really really hurt players who relied on boosted 3*.

And cover saving meant no more CS swap and no more weighting on the latest 12 4*, all of which made transitioning to a new tier a lot more complicated.

But to be fair, I think the 5* roll out was basically just adding new features to the game with no changes to the existing systems (5* and LTs were added to the game, as was the crash of the Titans node, which was hard, but all upside if you could beat them).  That was after ddq.  But it was also September 2015.  Which kinda supports my position.

Chrynos1989

The rockett said:

@IceIX

since there is no way to earn or get a Master Support Token, is Demi/D3 looking to expand shards into Supports since this feature is basically  being ignored.  Thoughts on supports? 

This!

would finally give a real chance to actually get 4 and 5* supports effectively 

Welforj1

When is this release coming through it seems it has been in the go for a month and still no cigar! 

shardwick

Welforj1 said:

When is this release coming through it seems it has been in the go for a month and still no cigar! 

As early as Monday.

Pongie

Did a little of analysis of my current 5* roster

The following have feeders and on track to complete:

Dr strange 5/2/5 will complete when Mordo reach level 350, 6 covers to go

Black suit spidey 4/5/3 will complete when infinity was reach level 320, 28 covers to go

Starlord 3/4/5 will complete when drax reach level 340, 9 covers to go

Green goblin 2/4/4 will complete when sandman reach level 360, 25 covers to go

First avenger 4/3/2 will complete when dupe Peggy is championed and reach level 350, 83 covers to go

Black widow 4/1/3 will complete When her infinity war variant reach level 360, 68 covers to go

The following have feeders but will fall short:

Ghost rider 1/5/1 even with ghost rider at level 360 (26 covers to go) will only become 2/5/2

Dr ock 2/1/3 even with carnage at level 360 (32 covers to go) will only become 3/2/4

Wasp 1/1/1 even with antman at level 360 (22 covers to go) will only become 2/2/2

The following do not have feeders, but if they gain one will be on track to complete

Cable 5/4/2, feeder needs to be level 320

Rescue 2/5/2, feeder needs to be level 360

Doom 3/2/3, feeder needs to be level 350

Hella 2/2/4, feeder needs to be level 350

The following do not have feeders and will be short even if they gain one

Kingpin 5/1/2, even with a feeder at level 360, will only become 5/3/4

Carnage 5/1/1, even with a feeder at level 360, will only become 5/3/3

Archangel 1/0/0, even with a feeder at level 360, will only become 3/2/2

Px 1/0/0 still new, may unload when next 5* enter latest

With bonus hero

5* set to whoever I was targeting when unloading my hoard, could be one of the latest (iceman was the most recent example) or an older one that popped up in a special store (green goblin as an example). Doesn’t really matter since hoarding means there’s 0 chance of getting before pulling

4*  strategy was simply to cycle through the first group (currently set to mordo) before moving on to the next

3* set to psylocke to help feed Peggy, however slow it may be. 

With target hero

The biggest advantage here is coverless covers so it make sense to adjust the strategy for 5*. Instead of setting it as who I was pulling for in each store each time I unload, it may be best to focus on those in the group that has bad distribution. Especially for those that fall short with a feeder. Of those, the candidates are ghost rider, kingpin and carnage. Not great options but the best way for me to complete them without rolling the dice with RNG. 

I’m still undecided with 4*. A lot of people have already voiced the concerns around wastage and the strategy to cycle through 4* champion levels may not be the best use of shards. May end up targeting those newer releases to get them to 10 covers/level 209 instead. Which means those 5* waiting to complete will take even longer without any aid. 

3* strategy is the only one that will not change. Need to farm psyloke for more Peggy covers. 

HoundofShadow

Kingpin's feeder is Miles Morales.

MegaBee

Welforj1 said:

When is this release coming through it seems it has been in the go for a month and still no cigar! 

In a couple of days.