New Feature in R191: Shards

bluewolf

It seems that the shards need to be randomly assigned to characters if you have more than one selected vs spread evenly since you could easily have a situation where you get a number of shards that don't match how many you have selected (ex: pick 2 5's but get 3 shards).  But even if it's random you would mostly get an even spread.

IMO you should always have shards focused on one person at a time unless for some reason you switch gears and want to collect for 2 at once to finish up a partial cover while working on a new one.  I guess we will see how it works in practice.

jneidus

bluewolf said:

IMO you should always have shards focused on one person at a time unless for some reason you switch gears and want to collect for 2 at once to finish up a partial cover while working on a new one.  I guess we will see how it works in practice.

Agreed that targeting one character at a time is probably the best way to go in most cases, but I have a few under-leveled 4s that I would like to work on and no preference as to which goes first. I suppose I could/should just pick one, raise it up, and then switch to the other. But I'm casual F2P so my MO is admittedly different than most.

grenadier

It would be nice that in cases where you have 2 or more favorites, and enough shards that one of them levels, that it automatically put remaining shards on the other(s).  If you get 10 shards, and need 3 to level up hero A, all 7 remaining should go to Hero B, to avoid "orphan" shards.  

Of course, if you then choose to leave Hero A as a favorite with 0 shards after leveling him up, new shards would accumulate as normal the next time you get shards awarded.

Rhipf

jneidus said:

Agreed that targeting one character at a time is probably the best way to go in most cases, but I have a few under-leveled 4s that I would like to work on and no preference as to which goes first. I suppose I could/should just pick one, raise it up, and then switch to the other. But I'm casual F2P so my MO is admittedly different than most.

For any specific cover having multiple targeted characters will take longer to get that specific cover but over time it doesn't really matter if you have multiple targeted characters or not. So in your case, where you don't care when the shards produce a cover and don't care what exact cover you get (out of the targeted ones) then having more than one targeted character won't make a difference either way. It is rather similar to the decision to have multiple BHs or just one.

ThaRoadWarrior

If you're free to play, it seems to me that you might be even more incentivized to focus-fire on one character to completion at a time, since you won't be raking in the resources left and right that a paying player surely must be. 

Regarding "wasted" shards, I still don't see it being a huge deal breaker. If incidental shards are going to be flying around left and right character specific from the adjusted event rewards after this goes live, you're going to have little slugs of XP on all your characters regardless before too long. I'll probably just stick it out for the champ level when it happens to me. If I'm averaging now 2.5 pulls/day like I appear to be, it's hardly the same kind of time sink I've spent working on Jessica Jones across all of 2019 so far. I realize that's a very "let them eat cake" outlook, but to me the champ level after baby champ granting an LT makes the juice worth the squeeze here.

Daredevil217

Lately lately we’ve been losing sleep
Thinking about Bonuses we can’t keep
Lately lately we’ve been playing hard
While D3 counts their money
We’ll be, we’ll be counting shards



Make your money, watch us burn (out)
Sunk in dilution the lessons we’ve learned

JHawkInc

Chameleon said:

I respect your position.  I wonder, though, how you wouldn't be disappointed at drawing the one you wanted when it's at 5/2/5 and you have a lot of shards saved up for that one.  You wouldn't regret not putting those shards towards one of the other 2?

You're missing the point.

Yes, I would regret that scenario.

But multiple years of play leads me to believe that scenario is never going to happen, because it will be rare, and because it is directly preventable by my own actions.

I'm not saying there are no drawbacks. I'm saying that the drawbacks are not as big as everyone is making them out to be, and that they will be manageable, like many other situations in this game (such as pulling a new character when you don't have the HP to roster them).

Also, it seems counterproductive to completely stop pulling from classics just because you want to make sure those shards get applied.  Does this mean that you'll stop yourself from pulling from one these 5* stores with 3 5*s in them when the character(s) you want badly are in them?  Just to not risk pulling the one(s) you have shards targeted towards?  That seems overly restrictive.  Will you continue to not pull from classics so long as you haven't acquired the one you are saving shards for?  How does that solve the problem of dilution?  If the one you want is the newest entry in Latest Legends does that mean that you will wait as long as it takes to get that cover, even at the risk of not getting the other 2 Latest characters covered?  What about when a new meta character comes along and you don't care about the one you were aiming for anymore?  If they nuke the character you're saving towards how will that feel?

It's not "counterproductive." It's literally the opposite. It's a deliberate choice to be more efficient to be MORE productive. I don't see it as over restrictive because it's not even something that's likely to happen to a large number of people in the first place. It's no different than how we had to manage our pulls before Saved covers became a thing. You do what fits your personal situation.

All of your hypothetical situations can be mitigated by careful play. If it bothers you, you can prevent it from happening. I'm not going to waste space answering them, because the point is all the same, these are things that are manageable.

We conceivably go from.. 'Woohooo.. Pulled a bonus hero!  YAY!" to "I've been saving shards for this one last cover I need and, now that I have more than half the shards needed, I pull that exact cover and now those shards will just sit there while I start over and send future shards off to this other character.  I wonder how many times this will happen again.. Great". 

You're framing this with bias that fits your narrative.

We also conceivably go from "Yay, pulled another bonus hero, but it's a waste because it's not the color cover I need" to "I don't need to pull from that store to chase the character I want because I'm guaranteed to get the exact color cover I need via shards!"

We lose the excitement of a lucky bonus hero, sure, but we kill the disappointment of an unlucky bonus hero. Having experienced both, I'll gladly make the trade.

And again, your downside scenario isn't likely to happen at all because I can plan what I do to prevent it. No amount of planning changes the fact that bonus heroes for a 5/5/X character have a better chance of being disappointing than they do of being the cover you want.

The downsides are real, but they're not going to be near as common as people fear, and they're manageable. 

Dogface

I know my 5/5/0 Okoye is glad with the new system. My 8/2/3 Str5nge won't complain either.

It will take another approach than the current BH. I now use BH to either get to lvl 209, or get to a certain champ reward. That's why I have characters I never use (apart from events) at quite a high level. 
With shards I'll be a bit more careful on what character I'll spend the shards.

Twomp_thaDJ

Someone just point me to where it says if we switch favorited character we lose the shards for that character. I’ve read the announcement over and over and can’t find it. So if anyone can help me out it would be appreciated.

skittledaddy

Twomp_thaDJ said:

Someone just point me to where it says if we switch favorited character we lose the shards for that character. I’ve read the announcement over and over and can’t find it. So if anyone can help me out it would be appreciated.

Hiya, 4.7 buddy!
 They aren't lost/removed. The complaint (which I'm not personally too worked-up about) is that they feel "wasted" because (for whatever reason) I no longer care to focus my resources on this original character. They remain there, attached to that character, as if in purgatory, serving absolutely no purpose until (if) I care enough to focus on them again.

PiMacleod

Chameleon said:

PiMacleod said:

I dont have such a negative outlook as others on this.  Most people are quoting lower chances, because it would take X pulls to get a cover.  

But its a cover of your choice.

But i think a new feeling of satisfaction will emerge from watching the bar completely build towards the thing AND COLOR you actually want.

What happens to that feeling of satisfaction when you pull that colour organically and no longer need any covers for that character in order to champ them?  Those shards just sitting there will be soooo satisfying.  /sarcasm

I said it much earlier and ill say it again...

The first champ level is another LT.  I see no issue with this.  

Funny how both remarks towards my reply were laced with sarcasm, but none have responded with a counter argument to getting an LT after champing.

I mean seriously... Is getting another LT that much of a bummer to you??  Are we playing the same game?  Sure, i want to move on to another character for shards... But if i 'happen' to pull another along the way, just keep it as is, take it as an opportunity to get another LT, and move on.

Im very confused by what people see as a waste of shards.  ...am i missing something?  Do my shards deplete to zero as soon as i get my character champed?  I saw nothing regarding that.

Daredevil217

PiMacleod said:

Chameleon said:

PiMacleod said:

I dont have such a negative outlook as others on this.  Most people are quoting lower chances, because it would take X pulls to get a cover.  

But its a cover of your choice.

But i think a new feeling of satisfaction will emerge from watching the bar completely build towards the thing AND COLOR you actually want.

What happens to that feeling of satisfaction when you pull that colour organically and no longer need any covers for that character in order to champ them?  Those shards just sitting there will be soooo satisfying.  /sarcasm

I said it much earlier and ill say it again...

The first champ level is another LT.  I see no issue with this.  

Funny how both remarks towards my reply were laced with sarcasm, but none have responded with a counter argument to getting an LT after champing.

I mean seriously... Is getting another LT that much of a bummer to you??  Are we playing the same game?  Sure, i want to move on to another character for shards... But if i 'happen' to pull another along the way, just keep it as is, take it as an opportunity to get another LT, and move on.

Im very confused by what people see as a waste of shards.  ...am i missing something?  Do my shards deplete to zero as soon as i get my character champed?  I saw nothing regarding that.

167 pulls to get what will likely be a 4* champ level instead of a much needed, targeted 5* cover is indeed a huge bummer.  For me a LT on my stack of LT is not even in the same stratosphere and would indeed feel like a waste.  Spend 167 dollars, and get a dollar back? Maybe we are playing a different game.

PiMacleod

Chameleon said:

PiMacleod said:

Bowgentle said:

PiMacleod said:

Im not going to do the math.  Im not THAT invested (despite my daily login count).  But i dont see all the doom and gloom.  Yeah, the high five from getting a 3* from standard tokens will be missed... But i think a new feeling of satisfaction will emerge from watching the bar completely build towards the thing AND COLOR you actually want.

Imagine pulling the cover you were working towards to on draw 165 organically.

So you wasted 165 legendary pulls working on a char that will at the worst case get you ONE champ level.

Still sounds awesome?

Yep.  One champ level is a LT.

Or i already have them champed and im doing it for the champed levels.

Not seeing the issue.

If you have 2 5* characters at 5/2/5 and you choose to save up shards for the first of the two then organically draw that first of the two will you not regret not saving shards towards the other character?   Under the Bonus Hero system you get the character you want and then get to immediately BH the second character without anything wasted.  Was there a possibility of drawing the exact cover you wanted then getting the same cover immediately as the bonus hero but that was an *extremely* slim possibility.  Under this new system you will not be able to transfer those shards to the new character.  At least, not unless they change something from the first post announcement in this thread.

@Chameleon

Sorry, i didnt see this reply earlier.  My answer remains the same.  No regrets.  Its an LT.  Its one of the best resources in the game.  To say that i wasted the shards because i couldve been using them on another 5/2/5 character is short sighted IMO.  LTs are how we are going to earn a large amount of shards for 4s and 5s.  Earning another LT because i got lucky enough to pull another cover for who i selected, and continued with finishing off that characters 500 shard requirement sounds like a no-brainer to me.

Look, i see it like this...

If i dont pull the cover, then everything is going as planned per the new system.

If i get lucky enough to pull the cover i selected for shards (a very small chance, mind you), then i take that cover, continue what im doing, and earn another LT via champ rewards, which in turn, helps me build shards towards the next goal.

Thats where my mind is at.  Quite frankly, i cant be bothered that my shard saving plan could be affected one way or another.  If i ever start to stress like that over a mobile game, this community will see my official goodbye as well.

bluewolf

Twomp_thaDJ said:

Someone just point me to where it says if we switch favorited character we lose the shards for that character. I’ve read the announcement over and over and can’t find it. So if anyone can help me out it would be appreciated.

They aren't truly lost, but they aren't transferrable under the system as designed.  So you can always add more shards to that character to collect your cover, but if you wanted a cover for someone, and pulled it from a token, you would need to decide whether to leave someone favorited until you get one more, or just move immediately to a new one and let the shards stay as a partial cover.

PiMacleod

Daredevil217 said:

PiMacleod said:

Chameleon said:

PiMacleod said:

I dont have such a negative outlook as others on this.  Most people are quoting lower chances, because it would take X pulls to get a cover.  

But its a cover of your choice.

But i think a new feeling of satisfaction will emerge from watching the bar completely build towards the thing AND COLOR you actually want.

What happens to that feeling of satisfaction when you pull that colour organically and no longer need any covers for that character in order to champ them?  Those shards just sitting there will be soooo satisfying.  /sarcasm

I said it much earlier and ill say it again...

The first champ level is another LT.  I see no issue with this.  

Funny how both remarks towards my reply were laced with sarcasm, but none have responded with a counter argument to getting an LT after champing.

I mean seriously... Is getting another LT that much of a bummer to you??  Are we playing the same game?  Sure, i want to move on to another character for shards... But if i 'happen' to pull another along the way, just keep it as is, take it as an opportunity to get another LT, and move on.

Im very confused by what people see as a waste of shards.  ...am i missing something?  Do my shards deplete to zero as soon as i get my character champed?  I saw nothing regarding that.

167 pulls to get what will likely be a 4* champ level instead of a much needed, targeted 5* cover is indeed a huge bummer.  For me a LT on my stack of LT is not even in the same stratosphere and would indeed feel like a waste.  Spend 167 dollars, and get a dollar back? Maybe we are playing a different game.

Yep, i agree.  We ARE playing a different game.  I never look at my pulls in such a way, and i highly value every single LT i can hoard, because quite frankly, spending that hoard is one of the funnest moments to me in the game.  Its like christmas!  

Less LTs is less fun.  More stress is less fun.  I choose more fun every time.

Edit: i read your post again, and again, and your analogy about spending 167 dollars to get a dollar back is a logical fallacy within itself.  Theres no scenario in which you'll actually get your 167 dollars back.  If you believe that switching your shards to another character is the only way to achieve such value, then its purely based on opinion regarding what YOU value the resources to be at.  As it stands now, i can pull 100s of LTs and never see a 5* BH.  But with this, i can see progress, and towards a color i want too.  If another LT helps get my next character's bar filled, then that sounds great.  Plus, its another chance at a 5* cover...  Which, as we all know now, is valued at 500 shards.  Ill take the chance.  Its more fun that way.

If i went through every game i played with such meticulous calculation, i probably wouldnt enjoy the hobby as much.  Ive learned that its much easier and less stressing to just pull the trigger and plunge in.

froggerjohn

IceIX said:

As for the above "wasted" Shards thought, as stated above, this doesn't match with player play experience in the majority of situations. Players want to keep building characters past Champion for a number of reasons. And for those players that like keeping their characters evenly leveled, those Shards never go away, so they're never really wasted.

@IceIX For those specific use cases, the shards are eventually useful. For all other characters for those players, the shards are wasted.

Unrealized BH odds are NEVER lost or wasted. When you move the BH from one character to another, there's zero consideration for what happened to those previous BH attempts. It only matters "what is the most valuable BH for me right now". And the "chance of getting such a cover" has a constant value that isn't lost when you switch the BH to changing game conditions (like drawing the cover you need naturally).

Shards take that flexibility away from us. Shards only have value if you let them mature to fruition.

While I accept that many players set their BH to the most valuable characters in a tier, I would find it hard to believe that a majority of players never set a "short term" BH to a character that they won't leave selected for later champ rewards.

And all such attempts have the potential for wasted shards.

RickOShay

@PiMacleod

What you are missing is the time and effort value of those shards in acquisition.

Say for example that it takes two and a half months to acquire enough shards to earn a targeted cover on a five-star character A.
Let's assume this character is at 12 covers and so is character B.

If you spent over two months acquiring 400 shards on character A, then stumble upon their 13th cover organically...
That means you spent all that time acquiring shards for character A when they could have gone to character B.

Now since you have all those shards built up you're going to spend weeks more finishing off the targeted cover on A for simply an LT from that champ reward.

I think many players are trying to make the case of all that time and effort feeling wasted on a simple champ level.
An LT is great but not worth 2.5 months of my time & effort. 
And definitely not as valuable as finishing a different character.

You could have had character B done now instead, and are looking at another two and a half months to finish them.

PiMacleod

RickOShay said:

@PiMacleod

What you are missing is the time and effort value of those shards in acquisition.

Say for example that it takes two and a half months to acquire enough shards to earn a targeted cover on a five-star character A.
Let's assume this character is at 12 covers and so is character B.

If you spent over two months acquiring 400 shards on character A, then stumble upon their 13th cover organically...
That means you spent all that time acquiring shards for character A when they could have gone to character B.

Now since you have all those shards built up you're going to spend weeks more finishing off the targeted cover on A for simply an LT from that champ reward.

I think many players are trying to make the case of all that time and effort feeling wasted on a simple champ level.
An LT is great but not worth 2.5 months of my time & effort. 
And definitely not as valuable as finishing a different character.

You could have had character B done now instead, and are looking at another two and a half months to finish them.

And i can respect that viewpoint.  But as @HoundofShadow mentioned earlier, i cant predict or even hope for that correct color to drop like that.  Its such low percentages, and at over 2200 days of gameplay, ive rarely ever seen luck favor me like that.  ...i think my favorite, most cherished lucky moments were back in the day, when a standard token could drop you a 4*.  That helped me get my first 4* champ as XFW.  Ah memories.

Edit: OH NO!  I mentioned something @HoundofShadow said in a positive light.  Am i gonna be lumped in with the "white knight" references?!  ;P

Tony_Foot

RickOShay said:

@PiMacleod



If you spent over two months acquiring 400 shards on character A, then stumble upon their 13th cover organically...
That means you spent all that time acquiring shards for character A when they could have gone to character B.

Yeah that will never happen to me because I will only pull Latest and shard a classic I might want to finish or get a single cover of a classic I don't have. Like doom. But I can see how annoying that would be if your pulling classics. I'm not interested in a single cover above 450 either. 13 and out, I'm happy if I never get another cover on them again. So wasting one would tick me off too but I have had that happen many times with 5* BH too.

I will certainly plan ahead 300 days, looking what 5* comes from daily rewards and only going classic.

RickOShay

Fair enough point on the low chance probability. I think if the exact scenario was relayed to 4-star characters both at 12 covers, would be much more likely / unfortunate.