New Feature in R191: Shards

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  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
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    HoundofShadow said:
    That's the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is your character is 5/2/5 and you got that champable cover but you are 100 shards away from getting that extra cover. It's not a waste because in the future, you will be able to complete the shards through other means. It could be classified as a waste if you are one level away from max champing them.

    However, probability says that you are 66.67% more likely to get an unusable cover. That's why there are many posts talking about those specific colours elude them. If you get an unusable cover, chances are you going to continue to BH them until you can champ them.

    If your 5* is 5/2/5 and it ends up as 6/2/8, will you regret continuing to BHing them?

    No, I will not.  Why?  Because, as I've said many many times to others, I feel that saved covers was the single biggest improvement in this game.

    Also, I have the choice to change that BH at any time if I do regret it without losing anything.  The cover is saved and I can BH another character.  Under this new system when I want to switch to another character I am starting over and not just getting them when I draw a BH.  Again, now I run the risk of drawing that cover organically and moving on.. to start over on another character yet again.
  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,371 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    That's the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is your character is 5/2/5 and you got that champable cover but you are 100 shards away from getting that extra cover. It's not a waste because in the future, you will be able to complete the shards through other means. It could be classified as a waste if you are one level away from max champing them.

    <snip>

    That is only technically correct. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, a lot (likely most) of the players will want to set their BH (or the shards equivalent) to someone they have not completed yet, and NOT to someone they have already maxed/championed, so in essence the shards are still wasted.

    Yes, you can leave the BH on that character for a few more months to complete the shards for the next rank but all that time you will not make progress for a character that you haven't completed. This is particularly a big problem in 5* territory.

    Looking at my own roster, i have only 8 5* characters fully covered. And about 200 covers left to collect among the 30 other 5*s. And that's only the current situation, new characters are released all the time.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
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    Based on what the devs said, a ton of players are actually doing things differently from you guys. They will leave the BH with those characters that they've chosen. I think that's the difference between completionist ans/or players focused on maximising resources and casual players.

    I doubt they are going to roll back targeted shards. Their new monetization plan will be rolled out. The best case scenario for you guys is trading your shards for other shards at a discount or you pay a premium for wildcard shards. Instead of 500, you might need 600 to 800 shards for 5* instead. Are you guys fine with it?

    Some of you have been playing for years and I'm sure you can read their minds better than I do. If wildcard shard is going to be created for this group of players, prepare for tradeoff lIke those mentioned above. I think it would be better to deal with this type of reality, rather than expecting the devs to remove targeted shards totally or give you 1 to 1 shards exchange. After all, it took them 3 - 4 years to implement "colourless" cover.
  • Lilith
    Lilith Posts: 65 Match Maker
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    My question is in regards to how this will interact with Saved Covers.  When I'm managing my farms, I keep a max-champed character, start a dupe, apply covers up to 13 and then Save until I hit 50 or 100 (depending on tier).  Sell the max champ, insta-max champ the dupe, and repeat.

    With shards, will I be "forced" to convert those 3/4/500 shards into a champ level immediately, or will I be able to continue to accumulate them to the 4000 point before flipping them all into Champion levels?
  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Can we set the shards to gain covers for limited characters?  If I want my 4-star to be Taskmaster, can I do that?
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    sambrookjm said:
    Can we set the shards to gain covers for limited characters?  If I want my 4-star to be Taskmaster, can I do that?
    No.  This has been asked and answered 
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
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    HoundofShadow said:

    I doubt they are going to roll back targeted shards. Their new monetization plan will be rolled out. The best case scenario for you guys is trading your shards for other shards at a discount or you pay a premium for wildcard shards. Instead of 500, you might need 600 to 800 shards for 5* instead. Are you guys fine with it?
    As I said above, I expect it.  Granted, 500 to 800 would be a steep jump, depending on how giving they are with these shards being awarded elsewhere.  I'd still expect to have the daily deals attached to specific characters.  What I'd like to see is a way to transfer these shards to another character if we so choose, just like we can change our bonus heroes now.  Even if that means only changing it if I draw the designated cover.  I'd accept that as a middle ground.
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
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    sambrookjm said:
    Can we set the shards to gain covers for limited characters?  If I want my 4-star to be Taskmaster, can I do that?
    No.  If you can't bonus the character now then you cannot apply shards to it, either.  Ice has said so here.
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
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    JHawkInc said:
    Chameleon said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    And now players are talking as if they will get that perfect cover with every BH pull...

    If your character is 5/2/5, and you get a bonus hero, you have a 1/3 chance of champing that character. But chances are, you are going to get another unusable cover that won't allow you to champ that character.

    With this system, it's a guarantee that you will be able to champ your character.

    What if it will take you the third bonus hero cover before you can champ your character?  This happens so often and one of the biggest things that players dislike. 

    The reason why BH isn't colourless is probably due to this causing their sales to drop potentially. I hope it's not shocking.
    I'm not.  In fact, I've said otherwise above.

    I'll repeat it here:
    If you have 2 5* characters at 5/2/5 and you choose to save up shards for the first of the two then organically draw that first of the two will you not regret not saving shards towards the other character?
    I have three 5*s that are 5/1/5. Two of them have 5 saved covers, the third only has 4 saved covers. I have been trying to "organically draw" the remaining covers for over a year on two of them, over two years on the third (we'll count from when I started making an effort at building 5's, and not when the characters were released). One of them has a feeder, and it will take me... roughly 70 more 4-star covers to champ the 5 that way.

    <snip>

    Further, if I'm using shards to finally get that last cover for a Classic 5, I'm going to stop spending CP on stores with them in the first place, so that the odds of "organically" acquiring the cover drops to zero, and completely prevents the bad scenario you're talking about in the first place.
    I respect your position.  I wonder, though, how you wouldn't be disappointed at drawing the one you wanted when it's at 5/2/5 and you have a lot of shards saved up for that one.  You wouldn't regret not putting those shards towards one of the other 2?

    Also, it seems counterproductive to completely stop pulling from classics just because you want to make sure those shards get applied.  Does this mean that you'll stop yourself from pulling from one these 5* stores with 3 5*s in them when the character(s) you want badly are in them?  Just to not risk pulling the one(s) you have shards targeted towards?  That seems overly restrictive.  Will you continue to not pull from classics so long as you haven't acquired the one you are saving shards for?  How does that solve the problem of dilution?  If the one you want is the newest entry in Latest Legends does that mean that you will wait as long as it takes to get that cover, even at the risk of not getting the other 2 Latest characters covered?  What about when a new meta character comes along and you don't care about the one you were aiming for anymore?  If they nuke the character you're saving towards how will that feel?

    We conceivably go from.. 'Woohooo.. Pulled a bonus hero!  YAY!" to "I've been saving shards for this one last cover I need and, now that I have more than half the shards needed, I pull that exact cover and now those shards will just sit there while I start over and send future shards off to this other character.  I wonder how many times this will happen again.. Great". 

    Again, I respect different opinions.  I just feel like this will cause more problems and regret than they have considered.  As do many others here, given the opinions voiced.  If I drew a colour I couldn't use then at least it was saved and I could choose to bonus another character immediately if I wanted, knowing that if I drew that colour I could immediately change my bonus hero selection without leaving behind weeks or months worth of work.  We play these games to be entertained and to feel joy, not regret and disappointment.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm taking a shard while reading this thread.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
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    Chameleon said:
    IceIX said:

    DeNappa said:
    All those fancy calculations here, but those still don't address the issue that essentially your shards are wasted once you pull the 13nd cover for a character. Yes, once you fill up the shards bar for the character they can still be used for a champion level, but I don't think anybody is going to leave their 'finished' characters set as bonus hero unless they have finished them all. Making them essentially going to waste.

    I liked the idea that somebody mentioned in this thread (sorry cba to look for the specific post): shards should go into a general pool so you can spend them on any character of that tier, but limit the application of Shard rank ups by 1 or 2 per week.

    @IceIX any feedback on wasted shards in the new system?
    Actually, a *ton* of players keep characters fav'd past Championing them to gain additional Champion levels specifically to farm rewards. Another batch keep Champed characters up there to get them max champed. For example, the number of players with Thanos and Dr. Strange favorited at the 3-star tier after Championing them is huge, despite "needing" covers for another character. This scales up to players Champing Grocket, C4rol, Juggs, Chavez, etc. at the 4-star tier. So, yes, given that people are using the Bonus Hero system for exactly that, it's very likely that they'll continue to use Shards for exactly the same thing.

    The idea of some kind of Wildcard Shard isn't a bad one. As pointed out in the thread elsewhere though, it also comes with some balancing downsides, some of which could be alleviated with usage restrictions, sure. It's something to keep in mind, and an example of valuable feedback that's come from this thread.

    As for the above "wasted" Shards thought, as stated above, this doesn't match with player play experience in the majority of situations. Players want to keep building characters past Champion for a number of reasons. And for those players that like keeping their characters evenly leveled, those Shards never go away, so they're never really wasted.
    @IceIX
    I am astonished by this.  No, that doesn't mean that I think you are lying.  I am just seriously surprised that a "*ton*" of players choose to use Bonus Heroes for increasing champ levels.  What I wonder is if these players are doing it for the champ rewards, rather than to just max out the character.

    I'd much prefer that shards be allocated to tiers rather than characters.  I appreciate the attempt to remove the concern over getting a colour you can't immediately use.  I just dread regretting who I choose to apply these shards to because of the likelihood of drawing that cover organically in the time it takes to get those shards.  If I could choose to move the shards to another character (even colour-specific) upon pulling the cover I have marked then I'd be much happier!!  It would remove the sudden depression of "wasting" those shards.  Currently there is delight upon pulling a bonus hero.  To implement a new system which can cause the opposite feels wrong.
    I rarely put BH on non-champed characters. Only time was when kitty wasn't champed.

    Always BH meta character's for champ levels. i.e kitty, okoyoe, bishop, worthy. 3*s don't care just whomever is lowest.
  • halirin
    halirin Posts: 327 Mover and Shaker
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    Chameleon said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    And now players are talking as if they will get that perfect cover with every BH pull...

    If your character is 5/2/5, and you get a bonus hero, you have a 1/3 chance of champing that character. But chances are, you are going to get another unusable cover that won't allow you to champ that character.

    With this system, it's a guarantee that you will be able to champ your character.

    What if it will take you the third bonus hero cover before you can champ your character?  This happens so often and one of the biggest things that players dislike. 

    The reason why BH isn't colourless is probably due to this causing their sales to drop potentially. I hope it's not shocking.
    I'm not.  In fact, I've said otherwise above.

    I'll repeat it here:
    If you have 2 5* characters at 5/2/5 and you choose to save up shards for the first of the two then organically draw that first of the two will you not regret not saving shards towards the other character?
    Just wanted to chime in that I won't be particularly bothered by it. In this case, the shards will turn into a champ level, and I've long since learned to make piece with somewhat sub optimal 5* draws. Sure our prefer to champ two characters right now instead of 1. But any champ level on a character I like is better than yet another ock or wasp cover. Even those I try not to mind, because bad luck is just part of the game, and makes the good luck feel good. If I couldn't handle that, I'd find something else to play. 

    If someone chooses to be mad in that situation, I'm not sure how they handle the millions of other rng ironies and indignities in the game. (And life?)
  • Mattjimf
    Mattjimf Posts: 139 Tile Toppler
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    LavaManLee said:
    This just shows how the concept of Colored Covers comes back to bite this game in the a**.  Before you champion a character, cover colors matter 100%.  Once championed, cover colors matter 0%.  No other game out there operates like this, except for the other Puzzle Quest games.  Fix that, and you fix everything.  At least, IMHO.
    Not got through the rest of the posts yet, but, they know when you need a specific colour cover for a character as they used to offer you the one you were missing on a 5/5/0 and 5/5/2 situation (other variations are available), so they could have just tweaked the BH to give you the missing cover when you were at that point. Obviously anything up to that point is fair game and can be stored.
  • jneidus
    jneidus Posts: 66 Match Maker
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    Will there be a limit to how many characters we can target? I think I saw this answered somewhere, but just to confirm - if I have X players targeted at a specific tier and open a single token or a 10-pack, the shards will be randomly assigned to ONE targeted character? And if I open a 40-pack, the shards would be divided equally across all the targeted characters? 485/X for 3* and 168/X for 4*?
  • Bryan Lambert
    Bryan Lambert Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
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    Chameleon said:
    Bryan Lambert said:
    Thinking about this - the best strategic move for developed 5* players is to pull latest tokens and target classics, or target latest and pull classics, depending on what you need. Since the pools are completely separate (only place in the game where this is true) you’ll never pull a 5* you’re collecting shards on, so no wasted shards.
    Nice, in theory.  Doesn't check out, though, since those latest then move on to classics.
    Well obviously there’s a time limit if you’re pulling classics and trying to target a latest. But if you’re targeting the newest latest you have a loooooong time to work up 167 20-CP pulls. 

    Pulling Latests to target a Classic has no time limit, though, and is way more likely to be effective anyway at covering the most characters.

  • JDFiend
    JDFiend Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
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    acescracked said:
    I'm taking a shard while reading this thread.
    Rather long shard. Getting enough fibre? 
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,040 Chairperson of the Boards
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    jneidus said:
    Will there be a limit to how many characters we can target? I think I saw this answered somewhere, but just to confirm - if I have X players targeted at a specific tier and open a single token or a 10-pack, the shards will be randomly assigned to ONE targeted character? And if I open a 40-pack, the shards would be divided equally across all the targeted characters? 485/X for 3* and 168/X for 4*?
    The way I'm reading it is that if you have only one assigned character in a tier all shards will go to that character and if you have multiple then the shards will be distributed randomly across the characters you have selected, not necessarilly spread evenly.

    From what I've read it sounds like if you open enough tokens to get 500 shards and you have 3 characters favorited in a tier you could end up with one character getting 300 of those shards and the other two getting 100 each or one character getting all the shards, or any combination of shards split among the 3 characters you've selected.

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