Does Naru Meha need a nerf?

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OmegaLolrus

Yes

starfall said:

OmegaLolrus said:

starfall said:

Getting a lot of turn 2 kills in this TDW playing with Naru + Green Finale + Summoner's Pact + Chord of Calling.

Anyone want to say the reason I want to nerf Naru is because I'm losing to it?

Can I say it, even though it's obvious I'm being facetious?

If you like

Psh, you just want it nerfed because you're losing to it, nerd!

Gideon

No

What this poll should really ask is how many times has the AI played this combo on you? My guess is 1-2 max. Seems pretty dumb to do anything about it. I’m pretty sure that’s why they didn’t do anything about cycling until it was out of standard because it doesn’t really matter.

Stormcrow

No

starfall said:

Starting the game with Summoner's Pact and Green Finale in your hand has got to be the fastest kill this game has  ever had. All for the low low cost of 1 mana (and 10 life, if you're counting).

Might be the fastest, but the easiest kill in the game has got to be going up against Greg when he's running your deck and has 2 summoner's pacts in hand.

Stalker

Yes

OmegaLolrus said:

starfall said:

Getting a lot of turn 2 kills in this TDW playing with Naru + Green Finale + Summoner's Pact + Chord of Calling.

Anyone want to say the reason I want to nerf Naru is because I'm losing to it?

Can I say it, even though it's obvious I'm being facetious?

I took it as, “please nerf, my constant repetitive tapping on my phone using naru to do 2 turn kills has numbed my fingers and is creating future health concerns, let alone is boring as can be on the 20th time using this combo”

Mburn7

Yes

Gideon said:

What this poll should really ask is how many times has the AI played this combo on you? My guess is 1-2 max. Seems pretty dumb to do anything about it. I’m pretty sure that’s why they didn’t do anything about cycling until it was out of standard because it doesn’t really matter.

This really is similar to the cycling argument, and I'll say the same thing now I said then:

Why is the AI's ability to use an instant win combo in any way relevant to the overpoweredness of that instant win combo?  Shouldn't an instant win combo be nerfed or not on its own merits?

Theros

Mburn7 said:

Gideon said:

What this poll should really ask is how many times has the AI played this combo on you? My guess is 1-2 max. Seems pretty dumb to do anything about it. I’m pretty sure that’s why they didn’t do anything about cycling until it was out of standard because it doesn’t really matter.

This really is similar to the cycling argument, and I'll say the same thing now I said then:

Why is the AI's ability to use an instant win combo in any way relevant to the overpoweredness of that instant win combo?  Shouldn't an instant win combo be nerfed or not on its own merits?

This is not a valid argument. Cycling and naru cannot be compared and they are not the same issue.
The uproar against cycling was that it messed with scoreboard/ranking due to being brain dead in meeting all objectives and not because it's too powerful or easy for the user.

Naru is strong indeed but I'm not into nerfing it. The probability for the right conditions  for a naru bomb is low for both AI and the user. I've seen a naru loop about 3 times only and lost 1.

If I were to go for a speed run for Totps, Naru is not an option. I rather build a deck that wins reliably in 1 to 3 or 4 turns max
@starfall naru, summoner's pact and green finale is not the fastest combo in the game. The fastest combo does not even need naru or blue for that matter.

I don't think a card should be nerfed because it's too strong or make games easy for the player. We certainly do not want to define how the game is to be played.
Naru is not meta wrapping and still inconsistent. It's too soon for a nerf; we should wait for few sets and see how things go. She has the potential to be extremely broken and it all depends on what is released in future sets.

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Matthew

Yes

starfall said:

Theros said:

@starfall naru, summoner's pact and green finale is not the fastest combo in the game. The fastest combo does not even need naru or blue for that matter.

 You got a faster combo in a standard deck, too? What's in that?

I, too, would like to see this "fastest combo" that does not need Naru, or even blue. Pony up. Your argument from authority/expertise carries absolutely zero water if you're not going to back it up with evidence.

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Narcoticsagent

Yes

starfall said:

Just played through today's TOTP White, with Tamiyo:

Summoner's Pact
Chord of Calling
Finale of Green
Naru Meha
Incubation
Talent of the Telepath
BSZ
Rishkar's Expertise
Sunset Pyramid
Dissenter's Deliverance

Turn 2, Turn 2, Turn 3, Turn 1, Turn 5, Turn 5, Turn 2, Turn 3.

Dammit I should have played Pull From Tomorrow, shouldn't I...

I think pull makes more sense than pyramid. Did you ever actually need dissenters deliverance? Here's my list 

Summoner's Pact
Chord of Calling
Finale of Green
Naru Meha
Incubation
Talent of the Telepath
Quasiduplicate
Killer Instinct
Pull From Tomorrow
Rishkar's Expertise

My record in TOTP:

T2, T2 , T1, T3, T2, T1, T2, T2

The only turn 3 in there was due to greg playing prism array turn one, I have animations turned off and landfalled because I didnt check the support so that's 1 turn wasted for bad play. The second turn 1 win was epic goodluck for me. I matched 5 and cascaded into naruplicate then got another match 5 cascade into Tamiyos ultimate which drew and cast killer instinct for me.

Nothing is wrong here, certainly nothing broken, move along.

Horadrim

Yes

Mburn7 said:

I've said it before and I'll say it here.

Straight-up infinite combos should not exist.
2 cards that instantly win you the game should not exist.

Therefore, Naru should be nerfed.  She should be the only card whose copies can't be cast the same turn they are created (and the card should be worded as such)

Copies should not be allowed to cast same turn just like what they did in 3.1

Machine

Don't Care

@starfall, @Narcoticsagent: I guess the loading times are taking longer than actually playing your games... ;-)

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UweTellkampf

Yes

Gideon said:

What this poll should really ask is how many times has the AI played this combo on you? My guess is 1-2 max. Seems pretty dumb to do anything about it. I’m pretty sure that’s why they didn’t do anything about cycling until it was out of standard because it doesn’t really matter.

I quit the game for a month because I kept getting matched to this. Take a guess what the first match after I came back was? It's not for the power of the combo itself. It's just how much time of your life this is stealing, reducing the game that is supposed to be fun to a time-consuming slugfest of waiting for your own turn. 

Narcoticsagent

Yes

starfall said:

Narcoticsagent said:

starfall said:

Just played through today's TOTP White, with Tamiyo:

Summoner's Pact
Chord of Calling
Finale of Green
Naru Meha
Incubation
Talent of the Telepath
BSZ
Rishkar's Expertise
Sunset Pyramid
Dissenter's Deliverance

Dammit I should have played Pull From Tomorrow, shouldn't I...

I think pull makes more sense than pyramid. Did you ever actually need dissenters deliverance? Here's my list 

Pyramid only went in because Tamiyo has an 8 spell limit I imagine you probably found that Killer Instinct was deadweight in this Naru build? I certainly did when I tried it in TDW this weekend.

And no, I never did use Dissenter's Deliverance!

Killer Instinct was fine it got me a turn one win due to its haste and it got me a.turn 2 win with the creature search. That being said I would not run it if it wasnt for the 8 spell limit. I have to run one support and I didnt see anything unlike better.

Narcoticsagent

Yes

Machine said:

@starfall, @Narcoticsagent: I guess the loading times are taking longer than actually playing your games... ;-)

It probably took almost as long to type up the post on my phone as it did to clear TOTP l.

Boogeyman

Yes

Just played a Naru.  I had full health... 132.  AI had 20 health.  They played Naru.  Looper timer kept going despite the limit.  Got up to 200+ with haste and killed me.  AI played 2 cards, haste and naru.  Game over.

NERF

bk1234

No

Boogeyman said:

Just played a Naru.  I had full health... 132.  AI had 20 health.  They played Naru.  Looper timer kept going despite the limit.  Got up to 200+ with haste and killed me.  AI played 2 cards, haste and naru.  Game over.

NERF

So how often does AI have Naru and haste. Like how many times a day does this happen to you? Because it’s never happened to me. 

This rare thing warrants a nerf because you’re mad at a loss? 

Last RaW; Greg dropped 2 GR on Turn 1 and another on turn 2. He was playing Samut. I was straight mana denied and dead on turn 3. 

This happens to me once every 3 weeks or so with some form of Samut aggro and / or GR — they’re each extremely powerful on their own or together. I’ve never cried for a nerf. 

This game has powerful cards, powerful PW, together and separate, sometimes the stars align, often Greg plays them jus meh— but we should really move out of the habit of screaming for a nerf every time we lose to fun and cool combos because this thing you experienced — it isn’t a norm. It’s just a thing in an RNG game.