kitty and grocket and the changing of the pvp meta

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  • 0_efx_0
    0_efx_0 Posts: 236 Tile Toppler
    Is this even possible??
    Someone is actually COMPLAINING about an actual legit DEFENSIVE strategy for PVP?!?
    Ive been waiting for a defensive team forever, and that being said, it’s no guarantee my team will win a defensive match. It’s just no one wants to lose many Health Packs climbing.
    Come on, we all play this game.
  • spidyjedi84
    spidyjedi84 Posts: 514 Critical Contributor
    fmftint said:
    Just make this thread every week. After a year they'll buff her and call it a nerf
    And then a year later they'll finally nerf the character, when two other meta defining 5 stars are now on the roster of choices.
  • spidyjedi84
    spidyjedi84 Posts: 514 Critical Contributor
    Kross said:
    I am firmly in 5* land, and I rather enjoy the introduction of "Gritty."  It's times like this that the game still requires strategy and experimentation. I have been using Okoye, Thor and DPXF, but I look forward to trying all these other combos too, including Bishop who I just champed last night.
    No one realizes how big a pain Bishop is going to be to fight because no one's pairing him with good teams yet... He's a damage sponge who hits back if the damage received is way too high, he has a yellow 4 turn stun, and he generates blue for all damage he takes and can reduce 5AP in his enemies strongest pool with his blue... Paired with someone else who uses blues for cheap, and another X-Men like Rogue, he is a beast on defense. I think a Nightcrawler, Bishop, Rogue team could be really scary.
  • spidyjedi84
    spidyjedi84 Posts: 514 Critical Contributor
    And you just need to get that team below 4 special tiles and Kitty is neutered for several turns, and the rest fall like dominoes once she's down. It's a weak defensive team, built solely around special tiles, and there's several counter characters that destroy special tiles from the board. It's nowhere comparable to Gambit pre-nerf, who destroyed AP, did damage per charged tile and generated his own AP to use. You only have to focus on the strike tiles and Kitty. Her other companions usually have higher AP for their moves (12 for Grocket's Blue, 10 for his green), hoping the match is over before they have to fire. Do cascades in this game happen? Sure tooting. But they happen with all teams, not just Grockittys

  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    Palookaville said:
    Just seems a bit sad that there are hundreds of characters in the game, but pretty much all of the teams I face are Gritty. 

    People say that certain 4* characters are good counters, I can't see how, after 3 moves max (or less with a cascade) any of my 4*s are pretty much dead.
    This...
  • zippee
    zippee Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
    Phumade said:
    zippee said:
    How about buffing somebody to counter her, like banner hulk ( passive: if the other team has more than 2 special tiles on the board he smashes the remain special tiles) (if the other team has someone with more health than him he smashes X amount of tiles every turn) He starts the match as hulk then turns into  banner after 3 turns. (the turns are based on how many covers you have for that certain color. Hulk needs some love!
     

    the way you counter kitty is run combos that scale faster or reflect faster than kitty.    There are lots of combo that can do that.

    there are near infinite ways to counter a 450kitty.  That may seem unfair to newer players, but it is what it is.  

    No matter what combo kitty you put out.  I can tell you a 370/370 4* combo to beat it.

    I get there are ways to counter her, like daredevil sonar, black widow tell me everything, dr strange eye of ayamotto, medusa Hair whip, jean grey mind over matter, Thor woman strike distance, and others etc. But THOSE COST AP, while hers is FREE, my team wont last that long. Even I think about using luke cake defender, rogue jump in front they wont survive very long. So whats the point of the game if everybody gravitates towards one hero to use while others like banner hulk collects dust.

    The problem isn't just a 450 pryde, I see ones that are 456-470 with only banner hulk and 3 5 stars at 2/5/5 they dont offer much help and 4 stars that only go as high 311 they dont offer much help especially when they arent boosted. It is very difficult just to reach 575, I get attack by non pryde teams so the 3 star stat becomes easy prey for those teams and then it becomes an issue of not having enough health packs. Another issue is If I try to beat just a 450 pryde, the game just becomes a roll of bad luck with tiles in spots that are not matchable. If you have a Pryde fully covered and champ your first inkling is to find not pryde teams to beat.

    If  your going  to have this ability on anybody it  should be on somebody super powerful and scary.(like Thanos, Hulk, Phoenix and maybe Doom.)
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    zippee said:
    Phumade said:
    zippee said:
    How about buffing somebody to counter her, like banner hulk ( passive: if the other team has more than 2 special tiles on the board he smashes the remain special tiles) (if the other team has someone with more health than him he smashes X amount of tiles every turn) He starts the match as hulk then turns into  banner after 3 turns. (the turns are based on how many covers you have for that certain color. Hulk needs some love!
     

    the way you counter kitty is run combos that scale faster or reflect faster than kitty.    There are lots of combo that can do that.

    there are near infinite ways to counter a 450kitty.  That may seem unfair to newer players, but it is what it is.  

    No matter what combo kitty you put out.  I can tell you a 370/370 4* combo to beat it.

    I get there are ways to counter her, like daredevil sonar, black widow tell me everything, dr strange eye of ayamotto, medusa Hair whip, jean grey mind over matter, Thor woman strike distance, and others etc. But THOSE COST AP, while hers is FREE, my team wont last that long. Even I think about using luke cake defender, rogue jump in front they wont survive very long.


    This is sort of how it is in the 4* tier with Grockmordusa. It’s just they are easier to get so everyone has them relatively early in the 4* transition. Kitty JUST entered the meta. So of course the “have-nots” want her nerfed. But just like any other meta character, it takes time to get them (especially true with 5* dilution unicorns). Just gotta keep grinding, hitting that skip button, or using one of the many counters (which there are plenty... see below). 

    So whats the point of the game if everybody gravitates towards one hero to use while others like banner hulk collects dust.

    Not a Kitty problem. Nerf her, and instead of a diverse meta of 5 characters (Gritty, BSSM, Thorkoye) you go back to just Thorkoye. Nerfing Kitty won’t make people play Banner more. 

    The problem isn't just a 450 pryde, I see ones that are 456-470 with only banner hulk and 3 5 stars at 2/5/5 they dont offer much help and 4 stars that only go as high 311 they dont offer much help especially when they arent boosted. It is very difficult just to reach 575, I get attack by non pryde teams so the 3 star stat becomes easy prey for those teams and then it becomes an issue of not having enough health packs. Another issue is If I try to beat just a 450 pryde, the game just becomes a roll of bad luck with tiles in spots that are not matchable. If you have a Pryde fully covered and champ your first inkling is to find not pryde teams to beat. 

    Yeah, if you are tackling any level 440-470 5* with unboosted 4s, it’s going to be hell unfortunately. Kitty is obviously worse due to her synergy with many 4s. I’m shocked you are not able to queue people with duo boosted 4s like you. I’m a 5* player and even though I don’t have Kitty champed (softcapped at 440), I can’t queue up anything but duo 5*. So while I would absolutely hit your teams before a Kitty team I don’t get that luxury. I wonder how so many 5* players are dropping down and seeing you. 


    If  your going  to have this ability on anybody it  should be on somebody super powerful and scary.(like Thanos, Hulk, Phoenix and maybe Doom.)

    I totally wish the cooler more powerful characters (especially DOOM!) were the ones who ruled the meta too. But that’s not really a reason to nerf and buff.  I definately think Hulk/Phoenix/Doom should get buffs (Thanos is fine), but that’s an argument for a different thread. I’m all for buffing them, but am not in support of nerfing a really good character. 

    By the way, as a 4* player have you tried Dazzler, Bishop, or Prowler as counters? Now that I’m in the next tier I no longer use my 4s, but being a person well versed in the 4* game I imagine some of those abilities could be quite useful. 

  • jtsings
    jtsings Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
       Maybe it's been mentioned already, but I've not heard of it yet, but today I was thinking that Bishop and Vulture (5/3/5) would team up to at least halt the damaging potential of Kitty and Grocket.  Most likely by turn 3 you'll have enough Blue AP to use Vulture's Hybrid Tech Slicer and that will take the combo below Kitty's strengthening shenanigans.  Kitty's purple will take away Vulture's green but his blue can just keep wiping away anymore special tiles or countdown tiles that either Grocket or Kitty might produce.   It won't be a fast match, unless there's a strong third but it might just work.  I know a lot of people don't have Bishop champed yet but he's probably worth bonus heroing because he seems to be shaping up to be a pretty annoying defender, so far.

       However, I will say that since Grocket is not boosted this week I haven't seen but maybe 1 or 2 Gritty combos in Identity Theft PVP.  Loads of C4rol and XPool as always, though.  
  • tph_james
    tph_james Posts: 197 Tile Toppler
    It's actually not that bad when grocket is not boosted. My thorkoye won all the matches in identity theft against Gritty... Remove 4 or more strikes tiles as soon as possible. Okoye red can help clearing strike tiles too.
    The real problem is how to take on Gritty/bishop combo in pvp simulator. Bring a half life Thor, then Gritty is laughing at u. 
  • spidyjedi84
    spidyjedi84 Posts: 514 Critical Contributor
    jtsings said:


       However, I will say that since Grocket is not boosted this week I haven't seen but maybe 1 or 2 Gritty combos in Identity Theft PVP.  Loads of C4rol and XPool as always, though.  
    Both of whom are boosted... Bishop is next on my champion list as a 4 star player.
  • zippee
    zippee Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
    Daredevil217 said:

    Not a Kitty problem. Nerf her, and instead of a diverse meta of 5 characters (Gritty, BSSM, Thorkoye) you go back to just Thorkoye. Nerfing Kitty won’t make people play Banner more. 


    By the way, as a 4* player have you tried Dazzler, Bishop, or Prowler as counters? Now that I’m in the next tier I no longer use my 4s, but being a person well versed in the 4* game I imagine some of those abilities could be quite useful.
    I would settle for a simple change to her passive phase and conquer. In order to improve friendly special tiles at the start she must have one x-men member on her team. Otherwise for non x-men team members she needs 7 in yellow. But what I dont get is where's the drawback to her? Where as Phoenix creates enemy attack tiles if there are 5 or more friendly special tiles. Banner creates enemy attack tile for non down ally. Both of those cost ap.

    Those 4 stars you mentioned for me are at level 70 no where near ready for use in pvp.

  • Dlanning
    Dlanning Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
    The problem with any and all of these 4 star teams is that they leave you vulnerable to major butt hurt while you are fighting gritty. You can’t shield hop effectively if the fight isn’t over in much more than a minute. POSSIBLY the team of bishop/vulture might work, even on defence as a deterant against gritty, but it will still get smashed by everything else. 

    I’d like to see kraven buffed to the point that okoye/kraven becomes a counter to grocket/kitty. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's a fact that counter(s) exists for Kitty. All you need is find a way to make sure she has less than 4 friendly S,A,P tiles.

    I think that instead of asking for a nerf to Kitty, maybe someone can start a thread on how to counter Gritty, based on what those players have. 

    It could start with something like:

    "Post your roster here and the level of Gritty team you are facing and the number of covers they have. Then, the community can help you think of counters based on what you have."
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dlanning said:
    The problem with any and all of these 4 star teams is that they leave you vulnerable to major butt hurt while you are fighting gritty. You can’t shield hop effectively if the fight isn’t over in much more than a minute. POSSIBLY the team of bishop/vulture might work, even on defence as a deterant against gritty, but it will still get smashed by everything else. 

    I’d like to see kraven buffed to the point that okoye/kraven becomes a counter to grocket/kitty. 
    If your shield hoping you should have pre selected for fast beatable teams.  I would not be trying to hop on Gritty teams even with double 5*.  

    Hunting Gritty teams is an early to 3/4 of the way through the event thing.  No one tries to exclusively climb off gritty unless they have a specific team in mind.  In the end phase setup your last team to be gritty bishop etc..
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    BlackBoltRocks said:
    That's akin to checking out the initial responses from the Silver Surfer thread (seriously, go ahead and have a look about the comments regarding the very first 5*, match damage, how Surfer and 5* was going to break the entire game).

    It's happened before, it will happen again. I myself was quite excited for Cable when he debuted, until I realised his Blue sucks. Time changes opinions, views, perspectives.
    Well, some predictions were right and some were wrong.  I was right about some things, but I'll admit that I was wrong about Gritty+Carnage being the ultimate all purpose offensive & defensive team for 4* players.  Gritty+Medusa has become that. 

    EDIT: I just read the Silver Surfer thread............5*s did "break" the game because it was such a huge jump above the 4* tier.  But nowadays boosted max-champed 4*s can compete with level 450 5*s, which is good. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    Wow I don't even see this as an issue. Other than people have got so used to not using any health packs at all and a Kitty meta would change that. I don't have Black Suit usable and I just avoid the biggest rocket teams. Hardly a first that I avoid the 370 4* teams. I do Carol too. Thor, okoye still gets it done for me I just cannot hit one team after another. Sometimes I need to hit a mirror team to fully heal okoye again.

    Or something else working well for me is to let the Black suit users take them down for you and just target them!

    Just wait until there are more Bishops in the wild and huge, I have already seen one in the 350's. He will be a far bigger issue than the trash panda.

    It's interesting though that the devs mentioned wanting to tackle the speed issue and the game being all about speed. That can only mean a long over due nerf for Thanos. Any thing else doesn't cure that. Make his court death a 3 turn countdown, job done.

    Although as I have said before you nerf clear time after we have had 20 minute clears for so long you are going to lose a portion of your users.

  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bishop's still in the oven for most people, but when he's ready, I bet he'll show up more.  He's kinda like Rogue in that he forces you to down him before everyone else.  So if the enemy team has a character that needs to be taken down first before they get out of hand (Jessica, Kitty, Chavez, Vulture, Carol, XFDP, etc), Bishop will thwart you.  If there was a character that could burst heal Bishop with Blue then Bishop could shield you indefinitely.  GEDoom was an attempt, I believe, to provide a solid defensive character to slow down battles.  If his yellow was cheaper, that could work, but as is, he's a true healing nuker, which could be popular.  Even if they nerfed both Thanos' to slow down battles, there are still other nearly-as-fast teams available.  A good game should have a periodically changing meta to keep things interesting. 
  • zippee
    zippee Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
    I am new here, but I just wanted to comment on using her for the first time. I found here yellow cover few days ago.

    I just used her in the pve essential node vs Luck Cage, Iron Fist and Mockingbird. I beat it 4 times very easy without any trouble with a 1/4/1 Pryde. That node I find to be one of the toughest to beat.  I used Gamora and Rocket and after the 3rd node I didn't even use a single health pack and they were 475.

    If it wasn't for a giant T of green tiles(10, hello Iron Fist) the AI team made. I would not have use a single health pack. Normally I cant beat it without going through most if not all my health packs. Even the boosted heroes aren't even enough.I mean she made that bad a** team into a group of non-boosted one stars.

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