kitty and grocket and the changing of the pvp meta

rixmith

It will be interesting to see how the upcoming She Hulk PVP affects the meta for that event. Suddenly She Hulk's blue power looks a lot more useful.

wymtime

I am actually glad kitty grocket is viable in PVP.  Now when grocket is buffed this is a much nastier team but when he is not buffed this team is not that bad to face.  Also with Kitty if this is the team you are going to climb with it is going to take up a lot of health packs.  

Also with Kitty now being seen in more PVP Deeper rosters will benifit and be able to play against it.  I also don’t think a 4* and 5* will become the defining meta in 5* PVP it is just better to help 4* transitioned get to 5* land.

Kross

I am firmly in 5* land, and I rather enjoy the introduction of "Gritty."  It's times like this that the game still requires strategy and experimentation. I have been using Okoye, Thor and DPXF, but I look forward to trying all these other combos too, including Bishop who I just champed last night.

jredd

gambit was nerfed cause he auto generated ap. kitty auto boosts specials. grocket auto places those specials. maybe they should un-nerf gambit, change him back to his old auto ap generating self. and oml for that matter too. at any rate, the reasons for nerfing gambit were for the same type of thing that kitty and grocket do together. if you can't see it i'm not sure what to tell you. 

Daredevil217

jredd said:

gambit was nerfed cause he auto generated ap. kitty auto boosts specials. grocket auto places those specials. maybe they should un-nerf gambit, change him back to his old auto ap generating self. and oml for that matter too. at any rate, the reasons for nerfing gambit were for the same type of thing that kitty and grocket do together. if you can't see it i'm not sure what to tell you. 

Should Nico be nerfed too?

jredd

Daredevil217 said:

jredd said:

gambit was nerfed cause he auto generated ap. kitty auto boosts specials. grocket auto places those specials. maybe they should un-nerf gambit, change him back to his old auto ap generating self. and oml for that matter too. at any rate, the reasons for nerfing gambit were for the same type of thing that kitty and grocket do together. if you can't see it i'm not sure what to tell you. 

Should Nico be nerfed too?

what does she do?

Daredevil217

Nico:
(PASSIVE) At the start of turn, if you have more Attack, Strike, or Protect tiles than the enemy, increase the strength of those tiles by 68. 

Kitty:
(PASSIVE) At the start of her turn, if there are 4 or more friendly Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles on the board, improve them by 367 (Max 5 tiles). For every member of the X-Men on Kitty's team, this threshold goes down by 1.

HoundofShadow

Strategy 1: reduce the number of tiles to less than 4 or 3, either by matching it away, destroying it, stealing it, converting it to something else etc.

Strategy 2: Someone who can stay invisible and/or turn team-mates invisible.

Strategy 3 : Someone with true heal to tank the damage while you are building up your ap for Strategy 1 or 2.

Team-up
1. Juggernaut's Unstoppable Crash could be helpful. It destroys 16 random tiles for 6ap. This is the lowest cost ability for destroying random tiles and the easiest team-up to get access to, depending on whether your allies roster him.

2. Daredevil can convert up to 5 random enemy's SPA tiles for 10 ap.


4-Star Characters
1. Invisible Woman turns herself invisible, and also turns her allies invisible for 2 turns for only 7 yellow ap. Her Force Bubbles lock 4 enemy's SPA tiles for only 8 blue ap. Then you could convert them to basic tiles for 10 green aps.

2. Howard the Duck turns himself invisible by creating 5 invisibility tiles using 12 purple ap. He could stun opponent for 3 turns and convert 5 random SPA tiles to basic tiles for 10 blue ap.

3. Cloak and Dagger can remove up to 5 enemy strike tiles for 8 yellow ap, and he has true heal. His black power 8-turn cd can reduce all of Kitty's power to level 1 for 8 black ap.

5-Star characters
1. OML and Okoye to tank IW or C&D.
2. Daredevil (Strategy 1 + 3)
3. Bruce Banner might help if there are fewer than 7 Green tiles on the board. He turns 2 random enemy SPA tiles to Green basic tiles passively. Then, you could him into Hulk form after a while.

jredd

Daredevil217 said:

Nico:
(PASSIVE) At the start of turn, if you have more Attack, Strike, or Protect tiles than the enemy, increase the strength of those tiles by 68. 

Kitty:
(PASSIVE) At the start of her turn, if there are 4 or more friendly Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles on the board, improve them by 367 (Max 5 tiles). For every member of the X-Men on Kitty's team, this threshold goes down by 1.

i've used nico about as many times as she's been a required character. and played against her as many times as she's been in a node on the simulator pve. let's not pretend she moves the needle in this game in any way. 

jredd

HoundofShadow said:

Strategy 1: reduce the number of tiles to less than 4 or 3, either by matching it away, destroying it, stealing it, converting it to something else etc.

Strategy 2: Someone who can stay invisible and/or turn team-mates invisible.

Strategy 3 : Someone with true heal to tank the damage while you are building up your ap for Strategy 1 or 2.

Team-up
1. Juggernaut's Unstoppable Crash could be helpful. It destroys 16 random tiles for 6ap. This is the lowest cost ability for destroying random tiles and the easiest team-up to get access to, depending on whether your allies roster him.

2. Daredevil can convert up to 5 random enemy's SPA tiles for 10 ap.


4-Star Characters
1. Invisible Woman turns herself invisible, and also turns her allies invisible for 2 turns for only 7 yellow ap. Her Force Bubbles lock 4 enemy's SPA tiles for only 8 blue ap. Then you could convert them to basic tiles for 10 green aps.

2. Howard the Duck turns himself invisible by creating 5 invisibility tiles using 12 purple ap. He could stun opponent for 3 turns and convert 5 random SPA tiles to basic tiles for 10 blue ap.

3. Cloak and Dagger can remove up to 5 enemy strike tiles for 8 yellow ap, and he has true heal. His black power 8-turn cd can reduce all of Kitty's power to level 1 for 8 black ap.

5-Star characters
1. OML and Okoye to tank IW or C&D.
2. Daredevil (Strategy 1 + 3)
3. Bruce Banner might help if there are fewer than 7 Green tiles on the board. He turns 2 random enemy SPA tiles to Green basic tiles passively. Then, you could him into Hulk form after a while.

Appreciate the post, but if you don't get rid of those tiles within 3 turns you're pretty much fried. and if you get lucky and do manage to win the node, guess what, you get to do it all over again cause the next team worth any points is going to be the same squad. you just can't progress in pvp that way. not with the kind of speed you need to do it so you don't get bombed while you're playing. plus all damage you're going to incur in the process means you will burn through health packs fast.

gambit was the last character who dominated the meta. gritty does the same thing gambit did. just with a different aspect of playing. thing is, gambit was actually way easier to beat than gritty. people whined and he got nerfed.

jredd

Bowgentle said:

jredd said:

Bowgentle said:

Bring BSSM.

no can do homie. my bssm is 2/5/1. he dropped before i figured out how to cover latest 5* before they fall in the abyss...

So a counter exists but you don't have it - so something has to be done?
Makes sense.

people complained that the only way to counter gambit was to have your own gambit. the counter existed. they didn't have it and whined their way into a gambit nerf. 

jredd

Palookaville said:

Just seems a bit sad that there are hundreds of characters in the game, but pretty much all of the teams I face are Gritty. 

People say that certain 4* characters are good counters, I can't see how, after 3 moves max (or less with a cascade) any of my 4*s are pretty much dead.

never mind 4*, 5* characters are wiped in that many turns. 

jredd

Daredevil217 said:

Oh and Grocket needing a nerf is also laughable to me. He does one thing really really well.  Places strong strikes. Which allows others like Nico, Guardians, Medusa, Kitty, etc. to really shine.  His other two powers are pretty weak compared to others in his tier and once matched away, he’s a sitting duck who brings little else to the fight. Grocket is absolutely fine as is.  No combo of his is unbeatable and he just makes the game FASTER. I think people don’t know what they want sometimes. Hate the grind, but want to slow the game down by taking away a character who helps many people (transitioners especially) speed up their clears.  

here's the thing, i actually really like the gritty combo for pve. been using them way more than thorkoye the last while. but they are pvp killers. there's no way you can tell me you get through pvp as quickly or easily having to try to get through 100% of teams running them defensively. 

jredd

0_efx_0 said:

Nope she’s a fair character. Gambit was not...no nerf needed

gambit was very easy to beat. just needed your own gambit.

thorkoye - easy to beat with a variety of characters

panthos - easy to beat with a variety of characters

anyone else - easy to beat with a variety of characters

gritty - if you don't get lucky and clear the strike tiles within a few turns you have no chance. 

not that you really made an argument, but maybe if you have one, now's the time.

BigSoftieFF

BSSM
New Doom
Thorkoye
Deadkoye

All of these can beat Gritty with varying levels of success. 

jredd

BigSoftieFF said:

BSSM
New Doom
Thorkoye
Deadkoye

All of these can beat Gritty with varying levels of success. 

you had me until 'varying levels of success' haha.

Daredevil217

jredd said:

Daredevil217 said:

Nico:
(PASSIVE) At the start of turn, if you have more Attack, Strike, or Protect tiles than the enemy, increase the strength of those tiles by 68. 

Kitty:
(PASSIVE) At the start of her turn, if there are 4 or more friendly Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles on the board, improve them by 367 (Max 5 tiles). For every member of the X-Men on Kitty's team, this threshold goes down by 1.

i've used nico about as many times as she's been a required character. and played against her as many times as she's been in a node on the simulator pve. let's not pretend she moves the needle in this game in any way. 

You likened Kitty to Gambit because they both do their “thing” passively. Kitty’s kit is way closer to Nico’s. Obviously Kitty is better because she boosts at 5* rates rather than 4*. But they’re very similar. 

jredd said:

Daredevil217 said:

Oh and Grocket needing a nerf is also laughable to me. He does one thing really really well.  Places strong strikes. Which allows others like Nico, Guardians, Medusa, Kitty, etc. to really shine.  His other two powers are pretty weak compared to others in his tier and once matched away, he’s a sitting duck who brings little else to the fight. Grocket is absolutely fine as is.  No combo of his is unbeatable and he just makes the game FASTER. I think people don’t know what they want sometimes. Hate the grind, but want to slow the game down by taking away a character who helps many people (transitioners especially) speed up their clears.  

here's the thing, i actually really like the gritty combo for pve. been using them way more than thorkoye the last while. but they are pvp killers. there's no way you can tell me you get through pvp as quickly or easily having to try to get through 100% of teams running them defensively. 

I joined the 5* tier this week. So I can. 

0_efx_0

jredd said:

gambit was nerfed cause he auto generated ap. kitty auto boosts specials. grocket auto places those specials. maybe they should un-nerf gambit, change him back to his old auto ap generating self. and oml for that matter too. at any rate, the reasons for nerfing gambit were for the same type of thing that kitty and grocket do together. if you can't see it i'm not sure what to tell you. 

Gambit used to take out two 5 stars single handed. Kitty needs another character to help her, how would she need a nerf? 

BlackBoltRocks

You’re saying that 5* (Gambit) can be easily countered by another 5* (Gambit) as long as a player has that said 5* (Gambit). I’m willing to bet you had your own champed Gambit then, hence this particular claim.

Whereas people are suggesting that a 5* (Kitty) - albeit used in tandem with a 4* (R4G) - can be checked by a 5* (BSSM), which you shot down purely because you don’t have him well-covered.

I’m puzzled as to your logic. You’re not the only one playing this game, mind you.

jredd

BlackBoltRocks said:

You’re saying that 5* (Gambit) can be easily countered by another 5* (Gambit) as long as a player has that said 5* (Gambit). I’m willing to bet you had your own champed Gambit then, hence this particular claim.

Whereas people are suggesting that a 5* (Kitty) - albeit used in tandem with a 4* (R4G) - can be checked by a 5* (BSSM), which you shot down purely because you don’t have him well-covered.

I’m puzzled as to your logic. You’re not the only one playing this game, mind you.

i don't discount that it works. never said it didn't. i can't make it work currently.  in 2027, when i finally champ bssm, i suppose it will work. but yeah, you totally got me. 

in any case, gambit had a counter it was gambit. he was still nerfed. gritty has a counter. bssm. doesn't mean she shouldn't at least be looked at.