Updates to Earning Supports *Updated (1/24/19)

bluewolf

Smart80 said:

Can someone explain to me why we get sub section of supports available per period without being able to hoard over to the next period. Havent done the math, but couldnt you just as well make all supports available if you cant hoard any way? (Explenation about skipping event if not have right supports is not satisfactory.. ;-) )

But would much rather have you go other way, to have sub sections AND hoarding, so you could actually have a shot at what you want...

Do I wish we could hoard towards a future vault?  Yes.

The reason that hoarded vault tokens won't carry over is because they....well....the conspiracy theorist viewpoint is that allowing hoarding would help you pull that one you really want (let's face it, some you won't care about too much), and the fact that the Support only needs to be pulled once at the right rank means they don't want to make it TOO easy.  The other thought is that no token for a store that does not repeat can be carried to a different one.  From one point of view, all new release stores are identical (3 5's, 1 new and 2 others (usually Classic).  But no token can be carried forward from one to the next.  Each Support vault will be different as they will be adding new Supports to the game; so they would, presumably, have a different mix from a growing pool every time in the tokens contained in each vault.

I prefer the Select 16 model for now, since it allows me to have a relatively good chance at a Support I want (6.25%) vs full dilution which would be 2.4% currently.  Basically 3X as likely.

The question I hope we have answered soon is, will there be Select 16 tokens in the PVE or PVP rewards?  If not, and they remain stuck in the Duplicate 18, that will make pulling and/or winning them much less exciting.

Ed_Dragonrider

Smart80 said:

Can someone explain to me why we get sub section of supports available per period without being able to hoard over to the next period. Havent done the math, but couldnt you just as well make all supports available if you cant hoard any way? (Explenation about skipping event if not have right supports is not satisfactory.. ;-) )

But would much rather have you go other way, to have sub sections AND hoarding, so you could actually have a shot at what you want...

I may be completely wrong, and might have misunderstood something along the way, but the way i interpreted this whole thing is that you cant hoard Vault tokens.
 The vault is open for 4 weeks, you get 3-4 tokens (x4) from new event, and in addition you are welcome to spend as much Hp as you wish to chase specific vault content.

However, if you do manage to luck into a Support Store token (begginer/advanced/master), then those you can hoard, untill the right set of 16 comes along for you to pull from... (With tokens only, no additional hp purchases available).

The support store and the vault are not the same things, but will run at the same time (and presumably the vault will contain the supports from the same set of 16 as its parallel store).
Idek. We'll see...

Smart80

Ed_Dragonrider said:

Smart80 said:

Can someone explain to me why we get sub section of supports available per period without being able to hoard over to the next period. Havent done the math, but couldnt you just as well make all supports available if you cant hoard any way? (Explenation about skipping event if not have right supports is not satisfactory.. ;-) )

But would much rather have you go other way, to have sub sections AND hoarding, so you could actually have a shot at what you want...

I may be completely wrong, and might have misunderstood something along the way, but the way i interpreted this whole thing is that you cant hoard Vault tokens.
 The vault is open for 4 weeks, you get 3-4 tokens (x4) from new event, and in addition you are welcome to spend as much Hp as you wish to chase specific vault content.

However, if you do manage to luck into a Support Store token (begginer/advanced/master), then those you can hoard, untill the right set of 16 comes along for you to pull from... (With tokens only, no additional hp purchases available).

The support store and the vault are not the same things, but will run at the same time (and presumably the vault will contain the supports from the same set of 16 as its parallel store).
Idek. We'll see...

I hope you’re right about this, but read the store part differently, as not possible to hoard either..

Smart80

bluewolf said:

Smart80 said:

Can someone explain to me why we get sub section of supports available per period without being able to hoard over to the next period. Havent done the math, but couldnt you just as well make all supports available if you cant hoard any way? (Explenation about skipping event if not have right supports is not satisfactory.. ;-) )

But would much rather have you go other way, to have sub sections AND hoarding, so you could actually have a shot at what you want...

Do I wish we could hoard towards a future vault?  Yes.

The reason that hoarded vault tokens won't carry over is because they....well....the conspiracy theorist viewpoint is that allowing hoarding would help you pull that one you really want (let's face it, some you won't care about too much), and the fact that the Support only needs to be pulled once at the right rank means they don't want to make it TOO easy.  The other thought is that no token for a store that does not repeat can be carried to a different one.  From one point of view, all new release stores are identical (3 5's, 1 new and 2 others (usually Classic).  But no token can be carried forward from one to the next.  Each Support vault will be different as they will be adding new Supports to the game; so they would, presumably, have a different mix from a growing pool every time in the tokens contained in each vault.

I prefer the Select 16 model for now, since it allows me to have a relatively good chance at a Support I want (6.25%) vs full dilution which would be 2.4% currently.  Basically 3X as likely.

The question I hope we have answered soon is, will there be Select 16 tokens in the PVE or PVP rewards?  If not, and they remain stuck in the Duplicate 18, that will make pulling and/or winning them much less exciting.

And how would that percentage be if the one you wanted, is none of the select 16?

(Moot if I was incorrect in my reply to Dragonrider...)

bluewolf

@Smart80
It's a good point that if you don't care about the 16 Supports, you don't care about Support Circuit for 4 weeks or the vault.  But I'd still rather wait for the next round to find the one(s) I want at a higher chance to pull them vs just make more pulls at the more diluted pool, and it's not THAT long, and they're still just Supports.  Also gives me time to hoard Riso, perhaps.

@Brigby
Perhaps this will be obvious later today, but can a Select Support token be hoarded past the 4 weeks and used in the next Select 16 store/pool?  Or even when ALL the Supports are available?  Or will an attempt to hoard Select Support tokens just result in many pages of different token stores?  I think this is the first time anyone brought up the question of what happens to newly hoarded actual Support tokens vs focusing on the vault token issue and older Support tokens.  Thanks to @Ed_Dragonrider for bringing this up.

MadScientist

@Brigby

The vault items in the first post add to 243, not to 240.

Jormagund

Shhh, don't tell them that, they'll pull the Master tokens to fix the maths!

bluewolf

Don’t worry, the Master tokens are still in there.  Along with 106 2*s.

RickOShay

MadScientist said:

@Brigby

The vault items in the first post add to 243, not to 240.

Great news! It's only 106x 2* instead of 109.

RickOShay

First impression of CL9 was that it is a pretty cool event. It's more grinding than I would have liked though, so I'm glad it's jut once a week. It looks great and the final bosses node was good fun. 

Too bad the 5* character boost doesn't apply to this event, although I'm glad the rest of the boosted character list applies. 

The 'extra' rewards are decent, so if you have the time or drive, it could be worth it for you. 
It think the rewards are worth the effort, CL9 full 4x clears will earn you 4 Tokens to the Support Circuit vault. Unfortunately you have around a 44.2% chance of getting a 2* on each pull. However, over the 28 days you have a good chance to attain useful supports, and the HP multi-draws are there if you need to go crazy (at rough odds). 

MaxPowers

At the moment this new feature really just feels like an excuse to add another vault to lure in some whales.

The odds of getting a support, let alone a useful one, are still miniscule at best.

Its a shame they couldn't have implimented supports into the existing reward structure somehow. I really cant justify all the extra grinding for what currently amounts to a niche feature.

Moon Roach

I climbed the ladder, did the three boss battles, opened my tokens, got a couple of 2*, decided that's enough.  Unless I'm really bored, I won't be going for clears and progression.  Absolutely not placement.

Am I looking forward to the next run in a week?  Well, of course I am, it's in the future.

Am I thinking about it with a sense of excitement and anticipation?  No.

Dogface

4 tokens. Result : three 2* and some iso. The 7 CP was the best thing. 

On my other account I got two support tokens. First a beginner token which got me a 3* support (nice), second was an advanced token, which gave me the same support, but as a 2* (not so nice).

Brigby

bluewolf said:

-snip-

Brigby
Perhaps this will be obvious later today, but can a Select Support token be hoarded past the 4 weeks and used in the next Select 16 store/pool?  Or even when ALL the Supports are available?  Or will an attempt to hoard Select Support tokens just result in many pages of different token stores?  I think this is the first time anyone brought up the question of what happens to newly hoarded actual Support tokens vs focusing on the vault token issue and older Support tokens.  Thanks to Ed_Dragonrider for bringing this up.

The Support Store tokens will update alongside the Support Store content during their rotation cycles. Vault tokens are the only ones tied to their respective vaults.

bluewolf

@Brigby
That clarification was very helpful, thank you. 

Ed_Dragonrider

Called it!

Smart80

So, we can treat the support tokens as LTs and hoard till the right selection is offered? Sorry, just want to be sure and have been dissapointed enough this week, waiting months to have support store being updated....

Ed_Dragonrider

Smart80 said:

So, we can treat the support tokens as LTs and hoard till the right selection is offered? Sorry, just want to be sure and have been dissapointed enough this week, waiting months to have support store being updated....

Yes.

Brigby said:

The Support Store tokens will update alongside the Support Store content during their rotation cycles. Vault tokens are the only ones tied to their respective vaults.

My interpretation (again i might be wrong) is that the support store will fluctuate (and probably confuse a lot of people).

Like, say from this current vault you get 20 support tokens. Then when the circuit season is over, your 20 supports will stay fixed, and the store around it will change. Into the off-season full pool. If you dont spend them here either, then the store changes again. Into the next R16 rotation store.

So basically the support store will shrink and expand but your 20 tokens remain fixed. Obviously you can always add to them or spend.

This R16 -> Full -> R16 -> Full -> etc store will confuse a lot of people. But its the best way to chase a specific token and quite frankly to me it makes sense.

Of course if this is wrong, then they would need a seperate token for the off-season store. I think it unlikely.

Again, this might just be my messed up brain....

jamesh

Richyyy said:

Brigby said:

Is this actually an improvement? Beginner tokens are a little bit better; Advanced tokens are minisculely better; and Master tokens, should you ever happen to luck into one and get excited about the possibilities, are vastly worse. I applaud the efforts you guys have made to improve this situation, and I'll reserve total judgement until it's all in the game, but as more of the information has trickled out it's less and less interesting or exciting. We've got another grindy PvE, more vaults that are mostly junk, bare minimum changes to the token odds, and a completely unnecessary slash to how much riso you get for duplicates. Two steps forwards and what looks like it's pretty much two steps back.

Master tokens with a 1:10 chance of receiving a rank 5 support have not existed for a long time.  With the recent Victorious support release, the master tokens had a 1:27 chance of giving a rank 5 support, and the probability has been hovering around that level for a long time.

So the new master support tokens have better odds of pulling a rank 5 (at 1:20), but much worse chances of returning a rank 4 (at 1:3 rather than 26:27).  With that said, the difference between rank 3 and rank 4 supports is vastly less than it used to be too: with reduction in the number of powers a support provides, you're only looking at an increased level cap.

Richyyy

jamesh said:

Richyyy said:

Brigby said:

Is this actually an improvement? Beginner tokens are a little bit better; Advanced tokens are minisculely better; and Master tokens, should you ever happen to luck into one and get excited about the possibilities, are vastly worse. I applaud the efforts you guys have made to improve this situation, and I'll reserve total judgement until it's all in the game, but as more of the information has trickled out it's less and less interesting or exciting. We've got another grindy PvE, more vaults that are mostly junk, bare minimum changes to the token odds, and a completely unnecessary slash to how much riso you get for duplicates. Two steps forwards and what looks like it's pretty much two steps back.

Master tokens with a 1:10 chance of receiving a rank 5 support have not existed for a long time.  With the recent Victorious support release, the master tokens had a 1:27 chance of giving a rank 5 support, and the probability has been hovering around that level for a long time.

Interesting. I admit I hadn't even really noticed because the chance of getting those tokens was so remote anyway. The odds in the old Supports Store still say 1:10 for a 5* from a Master token, but yeah, if the only support tokens available (above beginner level) were for the special stores with much lower odds, then they'd already quietly slashed them by proxy.

jamesh said:

With that said, the difference between rank 3 and rank 4 supports is vastly less than it used to be too: with reduction in the number of powers a support provides, you're only looking at an increased level cap.

Not entirely true given how many of the old-style 5-power supports are still kicking around and the fact that they never updated them. I think over two-thirds of the supports in the current store's group have five powers rather than three. So a 4* support would give you both an extra power and the potential 50 extra levels over the 3* version.