Updates to Earning Supports *Updated (1/24/19)

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Comments

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,897 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pr0spect0r said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    The hoarded tokens now do the same thing they have always done - open from a pool of 18 Supports and (likely) give you riso for the duplicates.  In the near future, the amount of riso from dupes will go down.  So whether you hoarded or not is basically a non-issue since they aren't updating the Support pool that the current in-game Support tokens pull from.  You should open hoarded tokens now if you would like more riso vs waiting until after the compensation drops.

    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,687 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    Pr0spect0r said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    The hoarded tokens now do the same thing they have always done - open from a pool of 18 Supports and (likely) give you riso for the duplicates.  In the near future, the amount of riso from dupes will go down.  So whether you hoarded or not is basically a non-issue since they aren't updating the Support pool that the current in-game Support tokens pull from.  You should open hoarded tokens now if you would like more riso vs waiting until after the compensation drops.

    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.

    However, they are playing with the odds that make non-Legendary Support tokens more valuable - they are increasing the chances of getting a higher level support out of the beginner and advanced tokens.  Since RIso isn't really a problem, I'm going to hoard my 11 tokens until the change goes through - I definitely could use proportionately more 3s and 4s.

    As far as Support Tokens vs 4*s, you're correct in that they did replace lower level characters, but the Support Tokens are as rare as 4*s so it's hard not to think of them that way. :)

  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hm. I have 45 beginner tokens in the main support store and 19 other assorted tokens from various other stores. And none of these will be updated. 

    Apart from the upcoming devaluation, I continue to see no reason to open them. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,897 Chairperson of the Boards
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    I'm very surprised that it sounds like so many were/are hoarding support tokens. I guess that was a small risk in hopes individualized-supports would have entered the main pool at some point. 

    Also I'd like to make a prediction: At least 1 out of 7 people will be disappointed about the chosen day that the support circuit will be run. 
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    RickOShay said:
    I'm very surprised that it sounds like so many were/are hoarding support tokens. I guess that was a small risk in hopes individualized-supports would have entered the main pool at some point. 

    Also I'd like to make a prediction: At least 1 out of 7 people will be disappointed about the chosen day that the support circuit will be run. 
    Oh oops, I misread it. Old tokens don't get converted. So yea, no reason to hoard.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,687 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  

    Brigby appears to say that explicitly, yes.  Meh, it's not a big deal either way, I may hoard just out of curiosity.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Mr_Curtains said:
    Regarding this statement:
    Like any Stockpiled tokens, players can still redeem unopened Vault tokens after the 4 week period ends, but those tokens will not carry over to the next Support Circuit vault.

    Can you clarify if it means unopened Vault tokens will be forfeited when the next Support Circuit vault opens or they will remain in your pile forever (just not carried over)? IOW, you could have unopened Vault tokens hoarded for Support Circuit vault 1, 2, 3, etc.
    You won't lose tokens. They'll just be turned permanently into a random pull from that Vault that isn't constrained by previous pulls.
  • Pr0spect0r
    Pr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    bluewolf said:
    Pr0spect0r said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
    Correct but also due to how they are placed in the vault they moved them in the location that used to house the 4 star covers. And based on how I believe someone interpreted or translated the mechanism behind vaults the location pulls aren't random but the covers in those locations are.
  • Pr0spect0r
    Pr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    GrimSkald said:
    bluewolf said:
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  

    Brigby appears to say that explicitly, yes.  Meh, it's not a big deal either way, I may hoard just out of curiosity.
    I do it out of a general feeling of uninterested
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    Any chance in ever giving an option to sell supports and/or trade RISO for PISO (and vice versa)?

    For people that don’t want supports it would be nice to have some way to turn useless rewards into something. 

    I would like like to say that adding the side PvE and not making it an alliance event is a nice touch for people like me. 
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
  • Twomp_thaDJ
    Twomp_thaDJ Posts: 237 Tile Toppler
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    reduced riso for dupes doesn't make sense, and is contrary to an update.  the values that they are being diminished aren't that considerable, sure, and we are presumed to be getting more tokens = more dupes, but it goes back to; why reduce them at all?  it takes 387000 to go from rank 1 to rank 200.  i now need 93 2* dupes versus 55.  for just one support.  out of 48.  a number that continues to grow.
    Makes sense to me. If the drop rate doubles, then you'd need essentially half of 93. Which is better than 55.
    So overall it would be an improvement. Besides, I still get the majority of my Red ISO from PvE and PvP anyway.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pr0spect0r said:
    bluewolf said:
    Pr0spect0r said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
    Correct but also due to how they are placed in the vault they moved them in the location that used to house the 4 star covers. And based on how I believe someone interpreted or translated the mechanism behind vaults the location pulls aren't random but the covers in those locations are.
    By that same logic, if you've pulled 4* covers from the vault they would have been 3* covers without supports.
    If we assume the PRNG is fair, then any choice should be equally likely and position doesn't matter.  They could shuffle the vault contents and it shouldn't make a difference to your long term results.
  • Pr0spect0r
    Pr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    jamesh said:
    Pr0spect0r said:
    bluewolf said:
    Pr0spect0r said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
    Correct but also due to how they are placed in the vault they moved them in the location that used to house the 4 star covers. And based on how I believe someone interpreted or translated the mechanism behind vaults the location pulls aren't random but the covers in those locations are.
    By that same logic, if you've pulled 4* covers from the vault they would have been 3* covers without supports.
    If we assume the PRNG is fair, then any choice should be equally likely and position doesn't matter.  They could shuffle the vault contents and it shouldn't make a difference to your long term results.
    Honestly it's just gonna be a logic loop. Cuz still those 3 star covers could get me 4 star covers etc etc etc. A support tokens gets me a support or red iso.
  • Freelancer
    Freelancer Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
    When the RIso flow was greatly increased in PvE and PvP, I really hoped that dupes would start to be used to upgrade the * rating of a Support. I imagine a system where dupes have a point value and could be banked to their specific Support (like saved covers are on characters). When the amount of points saved to a Support meets the requirements to upgrade, the Support would then move up to the next * tier.
    Below is a rough example of values, which I'm sure someone smarter than me could tweak to better suit the actual rarity/value of each tier.
    Dupe Point Values
    1* = 1
    2* = 3
    3* = 6
    4* = 10
    Points Needed to Upgrade
    1* > 2* = 5
    2* > 3* = 20
    3* > 4* = 45
    4* > 5* = 80
    When you upgrade the Support from a token pull, ideally you keep any saved points towards the next upgrade. If you pull a 5* upgrade from a token, any saved points would be converted to RIso and give you a nice windfall.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,687 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pr0spect0r said:
    GrimSkald said:
    bluewolf said:
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  

    Brigby appears to say that explicitly, yes.  Meh, it's not a big deal either way, I may hoard just out of curiosity.
    I do it out of a general feeling of uninterested

    It's less that I'm uninterested - I like the change and look forward to seeing it in effect - than RIso is worth far, far less than getting a shot at a higher level support that I don't have.  I've got a number of supports at level 2, even in the original lot, that I'd like to see at level 3.  I have only 6 Rank 4s, which is probably a lot (I've gotten some nice pulls out of the support vaults, and I've gotten two or three ten packs.)  Rank 4s are likely to be at least interesting, if not actively useful.

    I did the math, the difference in RIso for duplicates averages out to 1511.2 per pull for Beginner support tokens - that's weighted for your chance of getting each particular rank and is conditional on them not touching the existing tokens at all.  I have 13 tokens at the moment, so if I wait and they don't do anything to the tokens, I "lose" 19645 RIso by not opening them now.  That's not insignificant, but since they increased the RIso rewards I've been able to max out every support I'm likely to use, and I started working on ones I don't use.  In other words, I'm not hurting for the resource.

    If they don't change the odds, I am very unlikely to get anything that changes my existing supports - I have all the original set of supports (which is why I started hoarding in the first place,) only one of them is at rank 1, and all but 4 are at rank 3.

    The flip side of that is if we're misinterpreting what Brigby said, or he misinterpreted the information he was given, and they do put the new odds on the old tokens, that increases the chance of me getting a 3 or 4 in something I only have a 2 or 3 from almost zero to... well probably low, but at least there's a chance....

  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Spudgutter said:
    reduced riso for dupes doesn't make sense, and is contrary to an update.  the values that they are being diminished aren't that considerable, sure, and we are presumed to be getting more tokens = more dupes, but it goes back to; why reduce them at all?  it takes 387000 to go from rank 1 to rank 200.  i now need 93 2* dupes versus 55.  for just one support.  out of 48.  a number that continues to grow.
    Makes sense to me. If the drop rate doubles, then you'd need essentially half of 93. Which is better than 55.
    So overall it would be an improvement. Besides, I still get the majority of my Red ISO from PvE and PvP anyway.
    Fair point, sort of.  Again, it assumes i am getting twice as many tokens, but luck will be the ultimate qualifier on that.

    I also get quite a bit from pve and pvp, which is why i mention this. I have a bunch saved up.  So any reduction, even a little bit, puts a downward spin on what should be nothing but good news.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    DarthDeVo said:
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
    Twomp_thaDJ said:
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
    I was going to mention the "only one day per week" bit in my other post, but i was already starting to drone on, and am really trying not to be too negative.

    These are both really good points that need to be addressed.  Are the start and end times going to be consistent with current pve?  What if your time zone/life are inconvenient to the starts or finishes? Etc.

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