Updates to Earning Supports *Updated (1/24/19)

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Comments

  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 962 Critical Contributor
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
  • Pr0spect0rPr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Dormammu said:
    The devs get a lot of flack from us players here on the forums, so they deserve to know that this looks like a welcome addition to the game and a much-needed improvement to support availability. A lot of work obviously went into this which no doubt explains the long delay in getting here, but I'm happy to see more/new events tied into this rather than simply adjusting token numbers and odds.

    Thank you for listening to us.
    I agree, but i don't think we should also whitewash valid criticism.  This isn't their "one step forward, two steps back" that you see in some updates, but there are definitely a couple things that are sticking out that i want to see before breaking out the champagne.  Let me break out my pessimism pants:

    Rocket and others already mentioned current stock piles.  this is just another kick in the gut of them to try to stop hoarding.  there is a whole thread that could be made about their design decisions *encouraging* hoarding from a players perspective.  not updating the odds or at the very least adding the rest of the supports to the current pool to give us a chance to get them is just not sitting right with me.  

    reduced riso for dupes doesn't make sense, and is contrary to an update.  the values that they are being diminished aren't that considerable, sure, and we are presumed to be getting more tokens = more dupes, but it goes back to; why reduce them at all?  it takes 387000 to go from rank 1 to rank 200.  i now need 93 2* dupes versus 55.  for just one support.  out of 48.  a number that continues to grow.

    adjusted odds per tier.  on paper, i get it.  giving out more, you want to pull the reins back to not give away the farm.  but without a "streak breaker" for bad pulls, some people are still going to get the short end of it.  we obviously don't know the odds yet, but statistically, someone somewhere could pull 100 Master Support tokens and not get even 1 4* or 5* support.  we all know of someone or have suffered at the hands of RNGesus ourselves and opened dozens of LT's without any 5* covers.  will wait to see the odds, but i am not super optimistic.

    240 item vault, with 2* covers.  ok

    User interface.  again, mentioned by others, hopefully gets cleaned up at some point as well.

    to recap, i am super happy that they are addressing it,  but am reserving judgment until it is fully live.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 4,762 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    The hoarded tokens now do the same thing they have always done - open from a pool of 18 Supports and (likely) give you riso for the duplicates.  In the near future, the amount of riso from dupes will go down.  So whether you hoarded or not is basically a non-issue since they aren't updating the Support pool that the current in-game Support tokens pull from.  You should open hoarded tokens now if you would like more riso vs waiting until after the compensation drops.

    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
  • GrimSkaldGrimSkald Posts: 2,019 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    The hoarded tokens now do the same thing they have always done - open from a pool of 18 Supports and (likely) give you riso for the duplicates.  In the near future, the amount of riso from dupes will go down.  So whether you hoarded or not is basically a non-issue since they aren't updating the Support pool that the current in-game Support tokens pull from.  You should open hoarded tokens now if you would like more riso vs waiting until after the compensation drops.

    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.

    However, they are playing with the odds that make non-Legendary Support tokens more valuable - they are increasing the chances of getting a higher level support out of the beginner and advanced tokens.  Since RIso isn't really a problem, I'm going to hoard my 11 tokens until the change goes through - I definitely could use proportionately more 3s and 4s.

    As far as Support Tokens vs 4*s, you're correct in that they did replace lower level characters, but the Support Tokens are as rare as 4*s so it's hard not to think of them that way. :)

  • dr tinykittylovedr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hm. I have 45 beginner tokens in the main support store and 19 other assorted tokens from various other stores. And none of these will be updated. 

    Apart from the upcoming devaluation, I continue to see no reason to open them. 
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 4,762 Chairperson of the Boards
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    I'm very surprised that it sounds like so many were/are hoarding support tokens. I guess that was a small risk in hopes individualized-supports would have entered the main pool at some point. 

    Also I'd like to make a prediction: At least 1 out of 7 people will be disappointed about the chosen day that the support circuit will be run. 
  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 962 Critical Contributor
    RickOShay said:
    I'm very surprised that it sounds like so many were/are hoarding support tokens. I guess that was a small risk in hopes individualized-supports would have entered the main pool at some point. 

    Also I'd like to make a prediction: At least 1 out of 7 people will be disappointed about the chosen day that the support circuit will be run. 
    Oh oops, I misread it. Old tokens don't get converted. So yea, no reason to hoard.

  • GrimSkaldGrimSkald Posts: 2,019 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  

    Brigby appears to say that explicitly, yes.  Meh, it's not a big deal either way, I may hoard just out of curiosity.
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Regarding this statement:
    Like any Stockpiled tokens, players can still redeem unopened Vault tokens after the 4 week period ends, but those tokens will not carry over to the next Support Circuit vault.

    Can you clarify if it means unopened Vault tokens will be forfeited when the next Support Circuit vault opens or they will remain in your pile forever (just not carried over)? IOW, you could have unopened Vault tokens hoarded for Support Circuit vault 1, 2, 3, etc.
    You won't lose tokens. They'll just be turned permanently into a random pull from that Vault that isn't constrained by previous pulls.
  • Pr0spect0rPr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    bluewolf said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
    Correct but also due to how they are placed in the vault they moved them in the location that used to house the 4 star covers. And based on how I believe someone interpreted or translated the mechanism behind vaults the location pulls aren't random but the covers in those locations are.
  • Pr0spect0rPr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    GrimSkald said:
    bluewolf said:
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  

    Brigby appears to say that explicitly, yes.  Meh, it's not a big deal either way, I may hoard just out of curiosity.
    I do it out of a general feeling of uninterested
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,727 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    Any chance in ever giving an option to sell supports and/or trade RISO for PISO (and vice versa)?

    For people that don’t want supports it would be nice to have some way to turn useless rewards into something. 

    I would like like to say that adding the side PvE and not making it an alliance event is a nice touch for people like me. 
  • DarthDeVoDarthDeVo Posts: 2,147 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
  • Twomp_thaDJTwomp_thaDJ Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
  • Dragon_NexusDragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    reduced riso for dupes doesn't make sense, and is contrary to an update.  the values that they are being diminished aren't that considerable, sure, and we are presumed to be getting more tokens = more dupes, but it goes back to; why reduce them at all?  it takes 387000 to go from rank 1 to rank 200.  i now need 93 2* dupes versus 55.  for just one support.  out of 48.  a number that continues to grow.
    Makes sense to me. If the drop rate doubles, then you'd need essentially half of 93. Which is better than 55.
    So overall it would be an improvement. Besides, I still get the majority of my Red ISO from PvE and PvP anyway.
  • jameshjamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
    Correct but also due to how they are placed in the vault they moved them in the location that used to house the 4 star covers. And based on how I believe someone interpreted or translated the mechanism behind vaults the location pulls aren't random but the covers in those locations are.
    By that same logic, if you've pulled 4* covers from the vault they would have been 3* covers without supports.
    If we assume the PRNG is fair, then any choice should be equally likely and position doesn't matter.  They could shuffle the vault contents and it shouldn't make a difference to your long term results.
  • Pr0spect0rPr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    jamesh said:
    bluewolf said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Straycat said:
    Ah I knew I should have been hoarding support tokens. Oh well, I would have only had like 4 saved up in the past 6 months anyway
    Has it even been possible to hoard Support tokens? They seem so rare.
    Yes it is. I have 42 of them. They could have been 42 4* covers :(
    Also, it's splitting hairs, but the Support tokens replaced 2's (and I think a 3) in the event vaults.  The odds of drawing a 4 or LT have remained the same before and after the Support tokens were added.
    Correct but also due to how they are placed in the vault they moved them in the location that used to house the 4 star covers. And based on how I believe someone interpreted or translated the mechanism behind vaults the location pulls aren't random but the covers in those locations are.
    By that same logic, if you've pulled 4* covers from the vault they would have been 3* covers without supports.
    If we assume the PRNG is fair, then any choice should be equally likely and position doesn't matter.  They could shuffle the vault contents and it shouldn't make a difference to your long term results.
    Honestly it's just gonna be a logic loop. Cuz still those 3 star covers could get me 4 star covers etc etc etc. A support tokens gets me a support or red iso.
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