Updates to Earning Supports *Updated (1/24/19)

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Comments

  • FreelancerFreelancer Posts: 117 Tile Toppler
    When the RIso flow was greatly increased in PvE and PvP, I really hoped that dupes would start to be used to upgrade the * rating of a Support. I imagine a system where dupes have a point value and could be banked to their specific Support (like saved covers are on characters). When the amount of points saved to a Support meets the requirements to upgrade, the Support would then move up to the next * tier.
    Below is a rough example of values, which I'm sure someone smarter than me could tweak to better suit the actual rarity/value of each tier.
    Dupe Point Values
    1* = 1
    2* = 3
    3* = 6
    4* = 10
    Points Needed to Upgrade
    1* > 2* = 5
    2* > 3* = 20
    3* > 4* = 45
    4* > 5* = 80
    When you upgrade the Support from a token pull, ideally you keep any saved points towards the next upgrade. If you pull a 5* upgrade from a token, any saved points would be converted to RIso and give you a nice windfall.
  • GrimSkaldGrimSkald Posts: 2,008 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrimSkald said:
    bluewolf said:
    @GrimSkald
    If you look at the first page, Ice confirmed that the stored tokens will
    not be changed in any way - including the odds of a rank 4 - except for the decreased riso sell back. 

    Saving your tokens past the update will only be a negative for you.  

    Brigby appears to say that explicitly, yes.  Meh, it's not a big deal either way, I may hoard just out of curiosity.
    I do it out of a general feeling of uninterested

    It's less that I'm uninterested - I like the change and look forward to seeing it in effect - than RIso is worth far, far less than getting a shot at a higher level support that I don't have.  I've got a number of supports at level 2, even in the original lot, that I'd like to see at level 3.  I have only 6 Rank 4s, which is probably a lot (I've gotten some nice pulls out of the support vaults, and I've gotten two or three ten packs.)  Rank 4s are likely to be at least interesting, if not actively useful.

    I did the math, the difference in RIso for duplicates averages out to 1511.2 per pull for Beginner support tokens - that's weighted for your chance of getting each particular rank and is conditional on them not touching the existing tokens at all.  I have 13 tokens at the moment, so if I wait and they don't do anything to the tokens, I "lose" 19645 RIso by not opening them now.  That's not insignificant, but since they increased the RIso rewards I've been able to max out every support I'm likely to use, and I started working on ones I don't use.  In other words, I'm not hurting for the resource.

    If they don't change the odds, I am very unlikely to get anything that changes my existing supports - I have all the original set of supports (which is why I started hoarding in the first place,) only one of them is at rank 1, and all but 4 are at rank 3.

    The flip side of that is if we're misinterpreting what Brigby said, or he misinterpreted the information he was given, and they do put the new odds on the old tokens, that increases the chance of me getting a 3 or 4 in something I only have a 2 or 3 from almost zero to... well probably low, but at least there's a chance....

  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 715 Critical Contributor
    reduced riso for dupes doesn't make sense, and is contrary to an update.  the values that they are being diminished aren't that considerable, sure, and we are presumed to be getting more tokens = more dupes, but it goes back to; why reduce them at all?  it takes 387000 to go from rank 1 to rank 200.  i now need 93 2* dupes versus 55.  for just one support.  out of 48.  a number that continues to grow.
    Makes sense to me. If the drop rate doubles, then you'd need essentially half of 93. Which is better than 55.
    So overall it would be an improvement. Besides, I still get the majority of my Red ISO from PvE and PvP anyway.
    Fair point, sort of.  Again, it assumes i am getting twice as many tokens, but luck will be the ultimate qualifier on that.

    I also get quite a bit from pve and pvp, which is why i mention this. I have a bunch saved up.  So any reduction, even a little bit, puts a downward spin on what should be nothing but good news.
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 715 Critical Contributor
    DarthDeVo said:
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
    I was going to mention the "only one day per week" bit in my other post, but i was already starting to drone on, and am really trying not to be too negative.

    These are both really good points that need to be addressed.  Are the start and end times going to be consistent with current pve?  What if your time zone/life are inconvenient to the starts or finishes? Etc.
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,565 Chairperson of the Boards
    DarthDeVo said:
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
    I was going to mention the "only one day per week" bit in my other post, but i was already starting to drone on, and am really trying not to be too negative.

    These are both really good points that need to be addressed.  Are the start and end times going to be consistent with current pve?  What if your time zone/life are inconvenient to the starts or finishes? Etc.
    Deadpool dailies also have placement and timers. Maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill?
  • Dragon_NexusDragon_Nexus Posts: 3,697 Chairperson of the Boards
    reduced riso for dupes doesn't make sense, and is contrary to an update.  the values that they are being diminished aren't that considerable, sure, and we are presumed to be getting more tokens = more dupes, but it goes back to; why reduce them at all?  it takes 387000 to go from rank 1 to rank 200.  i now need 93 2* dupes versus 55.  for just one support.  out of 48.  a number that continues to grow.
    Makes sense to me. If the drop rate doubles, then you'd need essentially half of 93. Which is better than 55.
    So overall it would be an improvement. Besides, I still get the majority of my Red ISO from PvE and PvP anyway.
    Fair point, sort of.  Again, it assumes i am getting twice as many tokens, but luck will be the ultimate qualifier on that.

    I also get quite a bit from pve and pvp, which is why i mention this. I have a bunch saved up.  So any reduction, even a little bit, puts a downward spin on what should be nothing but good news.
    Granted we'll need to wait and see if the drop significantly improves, but if you're getting paid £1 an hour for work and they decide to change your wage to 50p every 30 minutes, yes it's a wage drop, but you're getting paid more frequently so it balances out.

    It's not *necessarily* a decrease. But if the token drop rate only improves by a tiny bit then year, it's a significant drop.

    But to be honest, I can't imagine the drop rate being much worse. I get maybe one token a month if that?
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 715 Critical Contributor
    tiomono said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
    I was going to mention the "only one day per week" bit in my other post, but i was already starting to drone on, and am really trying not to be too negative.

    These are both really good points that need to be addressed.  Are the start and end times going to be consistent with current pve?  What if your time zone/life are inconvenient to the starts or finishes? Etc.
    Deadpool dailies also have placement and timers. Maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill?

    Hmmm.

    And after re-reading the comment from Ice, "Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case."

    If it was 100% similar to ddq (open all day, progression as you can with placement just because that is the framework of "story" mode), why not just come out and say it? 

    Ddq was pretty universally loved when it was introduced.  The only downside at the time was you had to at least have the 3* in order play and get the extra 3* cover, in a time when they weren't as prevelant as they are now.  It helped open up and expand people into a tier that they did not normally have access to, that hinged entirely too much on luck.  Sound familiar?

    Going to have to wait and see, i guess. 
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,752 Site Admin
    edited January 2019
    *Updated post with the date these changes go live, data charts, and link to full Support Circuit event details
  • SymmeTreySymmeTrey Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    So is there a daily deal on the 4-week Vault?

    It is explicitly stated that there isn’t a daily deal on the off-season vault, so, I assume there is a daily deal on the 4-week?

    On the whole, looks positive, nice work. 
  • Ed_DragonriderEd_Dragonrider Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Hm... This still doesnt answer my question, although im more and more afraid i can guess the answer...

    @Brigby
    Will pulls from the new support STORES be only available for tokens (from the vault) or can we 'purchase' pulls for in-game currency? Hp? Cp? Riso?
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,490 Chairperson of the Boards
    I see that the odds for Support Store has been changed. 

    What are the odds for those new support stores that have 250CP and 4800 HP bundles? The odds for Rank 5 in these stores are 1:27.
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,752 Site Admin
    SymmeTrey said:
    So is there a daily deal on the 4-week Vault?

    It is explicitly stated that there isn’t a daily deal on the off-season vault, so, I assume there is a daily deal on the 4-week?

    On the whole, looks positive, nice work. 
    The 4-week long vaults have the same pull costs as other vaults, so my speculation is that yes, they do have daily deals as well.
    Hm... This still doesnt answer my question, although im more and more afraid i can guess the answer...

    Brigby
    Will pulls from the new support STORES be only available for tokens (from the vault) or can we 'purchase' pulls for in-game currency? Hp? Cp? Riso?
    While there are a couple more ways to get Support tokens than just the Vault, Support Stores will still only utilize tokens for pulls, as opposed to in-game currency.
    I see that the odds for Support Store has been changed. 

    What are the odds for those new support stores that have 250CP and 4800 HP bundles? The odds for Rank 5 in these stores are 1:27.
    All Support Tokens acquired after Monday, 1/28 should be following the new store odds.
  • marshallmarshall Posts: 160 Tile Toppler
    I think the main issue with supports we had was lack of ways to acquire new supports and paywall for 4-5*.

    Both issues should be solved now somewhat. The rate of acquiring tokens, surely is calculated on the basis on only needing to acquire them once.

    A 3* needs 13 correct covers before being usable. Plus additional 100 covers for max power. Supports are by nature less frequent.

    Would like to see better placement rewards token-wise, since for my usual top 50 range, I'll acquire a 4* support once every two months with that rate...

  • RichyyyRichyyy Posts: 305 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:


    Is this actually an improvement? Beginner tokens are a little bit better; Advanced tokens are minisculely better; and Master tokens, should you ever happen to luck into one and get excited about the possibilities, are vastly worse. I applaud the efforts you guys have made to improve this situation, and I'll reserve total judgement until it's all in the game, but as more of the information has trickled out it's less and less interesting or exciting. We've got another grindy PvE, more vaults that are mostly junk, bare minimum changes to the token odds, and a completely unnecessary slash to how much riso you get for duplicates. Two steps forwards and what looks like it's pretty much two steps back.
  • Twomp_thaDJTwomp_thaDJ Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    Deadpool dailies also have placement and timers. Maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill?
    Deadpool Dallies have no rewards for placement. This event supposedly will that’s what the difference is unless I’m reading the whole thing wrong. This then turns into another out of game chat room that will be needed to call out flips 
  • DarthDeVoDarthDeVo Posts: 2,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    tiomono said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    IceIX said:
    Punter1 said:
    Any dates on when this will be live? 

    Also the circuit event, is that going to act similar to DPD?  
    Soon (tm).

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.
    This definitely tempers my excitement. I was picturing something akin to DDQ, just complete it anytime within a 24 hour period and you're good. No placement, no time slices. 

    If you complete it, it's locked out for the rest of the event until it rotates. Think like how the Crash is available for 5 days in DDQ. If you complete it the first day, it's locked the next four. If you wait a few days and play, then it's only locked two or three days until the next one rotates in. 

    Instead we have an event that seems to feature placement and is available for one set, determined 24 hour period. Uhhhhhhh... what if you have a real life commitment that precludes you from competing? That seems highly inconvenient and not very player friendly.

    I'm having a hard time seeing why this was determined to be the best way to implement or design this new feature. 
    IceIX said:

    Support Circuit is kind of like Deadpool Daily, yes. However, it runs one day a week while DDQ runs every day. Support Circuit is also a placement event while DDQ is solo. Both have progression rewards in either case.

    With placement events all I see is speed racing to the finish.. how will this be done one day a week with no subs? This also means those with better rosters will finish faster and get then top spot every time... Will there be different start times or will one group be lucky it starts when they are awake?
    I was going to mention the "only one day per week" bit in my other post, but i was already starting to drone on, and am really trying not to be too negative.

    These are both really good points that need to be addressed.  Are the start and end times going to be consistent with current pve?  What if your time zone/life are inconvenient to the starts or finishes? Etc.
    Deadpool dailies also have placement and timers. Maybe we are making a mountain out of a molehill?
    DDQ has leaderboards, but no placement rewards. Doesn't matter if you're 1st or 1000th. And it has one 24 hour timer; just complete the nodes once each 24 hour period, and you're set. Not individual time slices that require you to play at a certain time to be optimal, was the distinction I was intending to make. 

    So instead of having a nice side quest mode that could be done on our individual schedule, we now have yet another mode that requires us to grind on a schedule *if* we want to be competitive and get the best rewards. At least it's just one day a week...

    And I'll have something new to harp on in surveys, so there's that, I guess. 
  • fmftintfmftint Posts: 3,651 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    At least it's only one day a week...



    Until they "increase support accessibility" to 2x/week
  • FelizFeliz Posts: 115 Tile Toppler
    edited January 2019
    I guess I am alone in my excitement about these events then  :D 
  • Projectus2501Projectus2501 Posts: 148 Tile Toppler
    Brigby said:
    Regarding this statement:
    Like any Stockpiled tokens, players can still redeem unopened Vault tokens after the 4 week period ends, but those tokens will not carry over to the next Support Circuit vault.

    Can you clarify if it means unopened Vault tokens will be forfeited when the next Support Circuit vault opens or they will remain in your pile forever (just not carried over)? IOW, you could have unopened Vault tokens hoarded for Support Circuit vault 1, 2, 3, etc.
    You won't lose tokens. They'll just be turned permanently into a random pull from that Vault that isn't constrained by previous pulls.
    First of all, thank you for the constant attention to the forum opinions. 
    Second, I hope in time you Devs change your mind about stockpiling tokens from one vault to the next. I stockpile a lot and, for me, it is yet another strategy that gives the game more depth. 


    Thank you
  • Smart80Smart80 Posts: 748 Critical Contributor
    Can someone explain to me why we get sub section of supports available per period without being able to hoard over to the next period. Havent done the math, but couldnt you just as well make all supports available if you cant hoard any way? (Explenation about skipping event if not have right supports is not satisfactory.. ;-) )

    But would much rather have you go other way, to have sub sections AND hoarding, so you could actually have a shot at what you want...
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