*** Doctor Doom (Classic) ***

Nick441234

Yes, you are right. My mistake.

Realistically though, how often will you get more than 7 blues on the board at the same time? Is it worth sacrificing 2 covers elsewhere?

Buret0

nick_chicane wrote:

Yes, you are right. My mistake.

Realistically though, how often will you get more than 7 blues on the board at the same time? Is it worth sacrificing 2 covers elsewhere?

There are 64 tiles on the board and 7 colors. Unless you or the AI are chasing a couple colors hard, the expectation is that the # of tiles will be somewhat equally distributed. That means you should expect about nine tiles of every color on the board.

However, since you might be inclined to use the ability as soon as you get it, it means that you might have just matched away some blue on your turn (unless you got it through AP steal or a line match).

simonsez

nick_chicane wrote:

Is it worth sacrificing 2 covers elsewhere?

Depends on how you're going to use him. There are so many better black powers now, he's probably more valuable as a black battery.

sinnerjfl

simonsez wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

Is it worth sacrificing 2 covers elsewhere?

Depends on how you're going to use him. There are so many better black powers now, he's probably more valuable as a black battery.

That's true but if you use him as a black battery, the same problem remains. Once you have taken 9 blue off the board to use Technopathic Strike, what are the chances there are more than 8 blues left? I have recently got him to 5/3/5, he used to have 5 covers in blue before and I can hardly tell the difference.

5 in blue is total overkill imho.

Polares

Yeah I had mine 3/5/5 and after using him and after I won a black cover I am respeccing him to 5/3/5. It is really true that most of the times, when you have the blue AP for the conversion you have already matched most of the blue in the board, so you have to wait two or three turns before you can use it to maximize its use, and this wait can be deadly... On the other hand 3 in black is a little bit underwhelming so I have decided to maximize its damage.

Doom case is a little bit like Cyclops, and in the end in both cases I have decided go full attack and go 5/3/5

simonsez

sinnerjfl wrote:

Once you have taken 9 blue off the board to use Technopathic Strike, what are the chances there are more than 8 blues left?

You don't have to necessarily use it the moment you get the AP. You're smarter than the AI. And even so, I have many vivid memories of the AI casting it and generating hellish cascades because of all the blue still on the board.

simonsez

Polares wrote:

Doom case is a little bit like Cyclops, and in the end in both cases I have decided go full attack and go 5/3/5

I agree with you on the cyclops build. Probably because his ability is a lower cost, and because the AI likes to match TU tiles, I kept finding myself in a situation where cyc yellow wasn't worth casting. Never had that situation using Doom's blue, and I've never seen the AI waste a cast of it either.

Phaserhawk

I recently switched to 535 and I can say I've never been happier with Doom. The blue is not missed and from my experience what I have noticed is that while the cascade may not be as large you end up most of the time with a four or even a five match, which did not happen as much with 355. I end up with about the same amount of black it's maybe a few of the other colors that I don't get as much of

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

Yes, you are right. My mistake.

Realistically though, how often will you get more than 7 blues on the board at the same time? Is it worth sacrificing 2 covers elsewhere?

There are 64 tiles on the board and 7 colors. Unless you or the AI are chasing a couple colors hard, the expectation is that the # of tiles will be somewhat equally distributed. That means you should expect about nine tiles of every color on the board.

However, since you might be inclined to use the ability as soon as you get it, it means that you might have just matched away some blue on your turn (unless you got it through AP steal or a line match).

Yes, you 'can' do that, but just because you have the AP to fire off something doesn't mean it's the right time. When I have XF I only fire off SS when I know I'll get a good return on it. Doom blue is no different. I'll chase it early on, then sit on it until I see a possible match 5 or a good number of matches.
Right now I'm like 5/5/2 with Doom, just haven't gotten a lot of purp covers. I'll most likely keep blue at 5, doom's black is actually pretty bad in the current meta...
red tiles are currently 'what's hot right now, so they get matched like crazy...
both Laken and Blade fill up the reds...oh and Cage...with 'tiles'...
they like to land on the matchable reds, so they don't last long...
dmg wise they suck compared to other black powers. You could get lucky with some good placement and 'drain' some good dmg, but with the hard hitting nature of the current high end characters, the only attack tiles that are scary are the ones that have been boosted to close to 1k like Blade or Elektra...
- Unreall

sinnerjfl

simonsez wrote:

You don't have to necessarily use it the moment you get the AP. You're smarter than the AI. And even so, I have many vivid memories of the AI casting it and generating hellish cascades because of all the blue still on the board.

You could wait and make Doom even more of a slow character... Let's say you get your 9 blues in 5 turns (reasonable), then you have to wait again for like what, 5 more turns so the board has more than 8 blues? On the other hand, you can just use Technopathic strike right away, get your 12 black needed and put out attack tiles much much faster (which do more dmg and there is more of them).

My advice is, if you want a black battery, you're better off with or . They're both better at it and they have better uses for the black AP they generate. Doom needs his black/purple at 5 covers to be any good.

GrumpySmurf1002

I love using Doom, he's overall a pretty fun character but he's sooooo slow. Would love to see either black or purple reduced a notch. Either at 9AP would make him way more usable.

Yeah, he has Witch and/or Fist to accelerate him, and maybe that's enough to not make the change, but hard for him to crack the PvP meta otherwise.

simonsez

sinnerjfl wrote:

My advice is, if you want a black battery, you're better off with

Obviously. But none of what you said explains why you'd want to use Doom for his black, given all the other black alternatives. Basically, he's a really good purple, and a so-so black ability, and a so-so black battery. You can either argue there are better black batteries or there are better black abilities, but in a vaccuum, there's not a compelling case to be made for either. It all depends on who you have available and who you want to use him with. You're not going to build a formation around him; you're going to plug him in when you're missing a purple.

sinnerjfl

simonsez wrote:

Obviously. But none of what you said explains why you'd want to use Doom for his black, given all the other black alternatives. Basically, he's a really good purple, and a so-so black ability, and a so-so black battery. You can either argue there are better black batteries or there are better black abilities, but in a vaccuum, there's not a compelling case to be made for either. It all depends on who you have available and who you want to use him with. You're not going to build a formation around him; you're going to plug him in when you're missing a purple.

You bring Doom for his purple, but his black can be serviceable. It's an OK power, at 5 covers you put out 6 tiles for 1140 dmg. You'll lose a few of those to Daken/Blade or just matching, but they tend to live for a while if they end up in a good spot.

Black just adds damage while you wait for his purple. There are better black powers obviously, but Doom's black is not awful like some people seem to think. And its annoying to face, when Doom puts those out, your characters are gonna get hurt and the match is slowed down (yay animations). Anyway, that's just my reasoning. The upside of 5 blue vs 3 does not appeal to me since it rarely matters.

Malcrof

3Thor and Doom are a 2 man Rainbow. If thor goes down, those 5 in black can save you, it can win an entire match for you, especially if you get it off twice.

Nick441234

You also aren't limited to only getting one set of attack tiles out either! I use Doom in DDQ and regularly can get two blacks off that cause havoc! I can wipe out goons in a couple of turns just through the damage off the strike tiles. I can then spend the rest of the time matching other colours to build up other peoples powers to use when we get around to the main character rounds.

Unknown

If you are casting it twice the difference between 3 black and 5 black is even smaller. After 4 turns you are left with whatever doesn't get matched away, basically the same number of attack tiles for both.

Nick441234

Goons dont match, so they all remain until the main character rounds. By that point, I'm usually able to kill them all almost immediately so even they aren't able to take more than maybe a couple off the board. I've regularly had 10 stick around for much of the 4 round event.

Unknown

I find Blade a better option for DDQ for that matter, with his three powers being very useful. I even delay the use of his purple so I have more time to drain the enemy ap. I use LCap LThor and Blade, rarely using LCap red but using blue to delay the goons ap when I take too much time to put up a couple Nightstalkers.

Ebolamonkey84

nick_chicane wrote:

Goons dont match, so they all remain until the main character rounds. By that point, I'm usually able to kill them all almost immediately so even they aren't able to take more than maybe a couple off the board. I've regularly had 10 stick around for much of the 4 round event.

The problem with using attack tiles in the DDQ survival node is that you actually allow the enemy to get off a move in the 2nd and 4th rounds if the last goon gets killed by attack tiles. I prefer the safer method of using LCap to handle goon CDs while I build up my AP reserves in the first round, killing the last goon with a power, and then unleashing everything on the second round so they don't get to do anything.

Nick441234

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

Goons dont match, so they all remain until the main character rounds. By that point, I'm usually able to kill them all almost immediately so even they aren't able to take more than maybe a couple off the board. I've regularly had 10 stick around for much of the 4 round event.

The problem with using attack tiles in the DDQ survival node is that you actually allow the enemy to get off a move in the 2nd and 4th rounds if the last goon gets killed by attack tiles. I prefer the safer method of using LCap to handle goon CDs while I build up my AP reserves in the first round, killing the last goon with a power, and then unleashing everything on the second round so they don't get to do anything.

Not necessarily. I bring Lthor to the battle in DDQ and I get his red powered up for the exact reason you are talking about. Once I get the last guy in a round down to below 1000 health, I use Lthor's red to kill him so that I can fire off my powers at the start of the next round without getting hit first.