GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: raisinbman wrote: seems like with all the changes, doom's powers in order of importance are: > > I'm running 5/3/5 and have no desire to downgrade his black. I've seen very few instances where having the extra tile or three converted would've immediately helped me. Similar situation to Cyclops, who I also run 5/3/5. The damage massively outweighs a extra couple tiles converted. Kamala OTOH i run 3/5/5, because the extra tile conversion is worth more (to me) than the small extra health burst. The variability in color also gives it a lot more utility.
raisinbman wrote: seems like with all the changes, doom's powers in order of importance are: > >
raisinbman wrote: I guess I was a bit vague. I was more referring to the fact that Iron Fist makes for nothing so really, if anything, you want doom for his .
Lerysh wrote: GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: raisinbman wrote: seems like with all the changes, doom's powers in order of importance are: > > I'm running 5/3/5 and have no desire to downgrade his black. I've seen very few instances where having the extra tile or three converted would've immediately helped me. Similar situation to Cyclops, who I also run 5/3/5. The damage massively outweighs a extra couple tiles converted. Kamala OTOH i run 3/5/5, because the extra tile conversion is worth more (to me) than the small extra health burst. The variability in color also gives it a lot more utility. The big difference between Cyke and Doom is instead of going from 6 to 8 for 3 vs 5 covers Doom goes from 8 to 100%. It may not make a huge difference most of the time, but it's enough for me to have Doom at 5 covers for his conversion and Cyke only at 3. Also Doom's Black is sometimes difficult to manage with 6 attack tiles anyway. You can hardly ever get 6 separate unmatchable reds on a board, especially now with so many ways to ADD red to a board, it's just not going to hold up long term. It's like the reason you take 3 in Storm's . It's great for a couple turns, but both 3 and 5 wind up being reduced to basically the same number of tiles over a few turns. So why invest in something that won't last vs something that can help accelerate powers. raisinbman wrote: I guess I was a bit vague. I was more referring to the fact that Iron Fist makes for nothing so really, if anything, you want doom for his . He doesn't make black from nothing, he makes it from purple, making him a less than ideal partner for a 5 Doom. In fact, if you were to run IF with Doom you would almost certainly want a 5/5/3 version of Doom and just use IF to cycle Purple into either attack tiles or chunks of 4k damage, which is basically what you are getting from Doom Purple anyway (8k damage for 10 AP, ish).
Lerysh wrote: No, I wouldn't. You are the one that brought up IF in your post about your vague post of vagueness. Somehow suggesting that since IF brings all the black to the yard, Doom's black is worthless somehow? I dunno, your post was vague.
Nivrax wrote: I wonder if existence of Iron Fist changes how people see his Black/Blue now. I personally don't feel that using him as a battery is worth it anymore as pretty much any hero that you want for will pair much better with IF - XF, BP, Cage, Cyke, even Colossus if you feel adventurous. And then Mystique who can work with IF but not Doom. For difference between 4 and 6 'demons', I don't buy idea that because you have more chance of them matched right away, having less of them makes no difference. If you have 6 tiles and AI matched 3 of them, 5 rank will still have 3 while 3 rank might have 3, 2 or even 1 left. Having not enough clear tiles is different matter, but similar to DD or Elektra, you just don't bring him against Daken/Blade. And it's not like 5 was a must in first place, difference between 8 (9) tiles and all tiles only matter if there is more than 8 (9) tiles up in first place after you collected 9 yourself, and if on top of that your enemy uses it as well it's almost never. If we get a proper generating ability (convert/add randomly style like Cyke/Khan) that might change, and also possibly create another infinite loop, but as of yet I'm not sold on maxing it. So in the end I'd go 5/3/5 for Doom that can stand on his own and maybe 3/5/5 if you don't have 5 yet and got very good users.
Nivrax wrote: I wonder if existence of Iron Fist changes how people see his Black/Blue now. I personally don't feel that using him as a battery is worth it anymore as pretty much any hero that you want for will pair much better with IF - XF, BP, Cage, Cyke, even Colossus if you feel adventurous. And then Mystique who can work with IF but not Doom. For difference between 4 and 6 'demons', I don't buy idea that because you have more chance of them matched right away, having less of them makes no difference. If you have 6 tiles and AI matched 3 of them, 5 rank will still have 3 while 3 rank might have 3, 2 or even 1 left. Having not enough clear tiles is different matter, but similar to DD or Elektra, you just don't bring him against Daken/Blade. And it's not like 5 was a must in first place, difference between 8 (9) tiles and all tiles only matter if there is more than 8 (9) tiles up after you collected 9 yourself, and if on top of that your enemy uses it as well it's almost never. If we get a proper generating ability (convert/add randomly style like Cyke/Khan) that might change, and also possibly create another infinite loop, but as of yet I'm not sold on maxing it. So in the end I'd go 5/3/5 for Doom that can stand on his own and maybe 3/5/5 if you don't have 5 yet and got very good users.
raisinbman wrote: Lerysh wrote: No, I wouldn't. You are the one that brought up IF in your post about your vague post of vagueness. Somehow suggesting that since IF brings all the black to the yard, Doom's black is worthless somehow? I dunno, your post was vague. My point was IF produces for free?
Lerysh wrote: Did you not see the math post up there by Phaserhawk? That attack tiles have turn over is not a question, it happens. It happens faster when you have more. It makes the relative power difference between 3 and 5 very small. While the relative difference between 3 and 5 CAN be small, it can also be vast. 3/5/5 is perfectly capable of standing on his own as well, and not just feeding others.
In the end, where do you value Doom's black, and how much more likely are you to play him vs. another character with black.
Lerysh wrote: The big difference between Cyke and Doom is instead of going from 6 to 8 for 3 vs 5 covers Doom goes from 8 to 100%. It may not make a huge difference most of the time, but it's enough for me to have Doom at 5 covers for his conversion and Cyke only at 3. Also Doom's Black is sometimes difficult to manage with 6 attack tiles anyway. You can hardly ever get 6 separate unmatchable reds on a board, especially now with so many ways to ADD red to a board, it's just not going to hold up long term. It's like the reason you take 3 in Storm's . It's great for a couple turns, but both 3 and 5 wind up being reduced to basically the same number of tiles over a few turns. So why invest in something that won't last vs something that can help accelerate powers.
GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: Lerysh wrote: The big difference between Cyke and Doom is instead of going from 6 to 8 for 3 vs 5 covers Doom goes from 8 to 100%. It may not make a huge difference most of the time, but it's enough for me to have Doom at 5 covers for his conversion and Cyke only at 3. Also Doom's Black is sometimes difficult to manage with 6 attack tiles anyway. You can hardly ever get 6 separate unmatchable reds on a board, especially now with so many ways to ADD red to a board, it's just not going to hold up long term. It's like the reason you take 3 in Storm's . It's great for a couple turns, but both 3 and 5 wind up being reduced to basically the same number of tiles over a few turns. So why invest in something that won't last vs something that can help accelerate powers. Just seeing this. Yes, 8 to sideways eight is a jump, but practically speaking it's been rare that I'm staring at 10+ blue when Techno is ready. I could of course hold the blue for a favorable board, but in PvP I don't like to hold AP, especially if it'll accelerate other skills. If I ran Doom primarily as a black accelerator, I'd absolutely go 3/5/5, but since I often use him opposite Thor and as the only black user, I prefer the maximum damage, even if said damage is vulnerable. I also run Storm 5/3/5.
AkumaHale wrote: Should I make doom my next 166? Currently I an deciding between him Blade, R&G, and storm. Who should I chose? My current roster is lvl 250 xforce, Cap, Draken, Mags, the Hood, Spidy, The Hulk, and Deadpool
raisinbman wrote: AkumaHale wrote: Should I make doom my next 166? Currently I an deciding between him Blade, R&G, and storm. Who should I chose? My current roster is lvl 250 xforce, Cap, Draken, Mags, the Hood, Spidy, The Hulk, and Deadpool Storm should be dead last. I'd say Rocket and Groot to lessen your health pack usage, but Blade does pair well with Daken. But then again you've got lots of options so I would say anyone but Storm.
Gowaderacer wrote: I just maxed my 3/5/5 Doom and I'm seriously considering moving to a 5/3/5 build as soon as I get the covers. Even maxed and boosted in the current event his attack tiles from the black ability only do a little more than 900 damage when all 4 are out. I know you want blue at 5 to change all tiles but his black just seems totally worthless at 3 and I want to get the most out of him.
Buret0 wrote: Gowaderacer wrote: I just maxed my 3/5/5 Doom and I'm seriously considering moving to a 5/3/5 build as soon as I get the covers. Even maxed and boosted in the current event his attack tiles from the black ability only do a little more than 900 damage when all 4 are out. I know you want blue at 5 to change all tiles but his black just seems totally worthless at 3 and I want to get the most out of him. Hmm... I'm wondering whether changing 9 blue versus all blue is worth the extra cover? Blue doesn't have a ton of active abilities, so it might be the case that there are lots of blues on the board. On the other hand, if you've been gathering blues to use his blue ability, are there really going to be more than 9 blues on the board most of the time?
nick_chicane wrote: You only lose 2 blue conversions by having 3 blues instead of 5, so its a no brainer really. 5/3/5 is the only realistic build for Doom.
nick_chicane wrote: You only lose 2 blue conversions by having 3 blues instead of 5