2.8 Release Notes *Updated (7/30/18)

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  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    khurram said:
    Nicol Bolas, the Ravager / Nicol Bolas, the Arisen 


    Interesting that they have mentioned the name of both the creature and PW versions. I wonder if they are gonna incorporate something new.

    Sure most of us have completely forgotten about Arlinn Kord when Samut hit...
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    Thanks! Lot of changes and bug fixes at the same time of the new set release. This is awesome.
    I have been very vocal for the land revision and you did it: great!
    I can't stop praising the end of cycling. Now or is just cycling and not an infinite source of value
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gideon said:
    You waited until it rotated to legacy?! This cycling nerf is completely unnecessary. The AI never cycled a single card. This is ridiculous. What a waste of your time to address this. Take it back.

    I wanted to flag this for excessive and unecessary negativity but it doesn't tip over the line into abuse except the entitled "Take it back" where he is _ordering_ the devs around comes close, it's certainly not a respectful customer perspective offered politely.
    This deserves flagging more than many other things I've seen people flag in the past.

    Anyway, I want it on record that I would rather people not talk like this in the forums, this is heading back to a place we've successfully dug our way out of.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    • Fixed an issue with Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain's ability remaining inactive after reinforcing her in Battle.


    Mishra's Replicator and Traxos suffer from the same issue where they don't trigger themselves. I hope they get fixed too.  :)
  • Azerack
    Azerack Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
    I have to say, I wouldn't have worded it the same way, but I did also think that the Cycle nerf was/is a tad late "in the game", so to speak. However, if people are worried that the cycling thing still affects legacy events, then that's fine, I guess. At least they're happy. I've put Nissa3 on the "shelf" and look for non-cycling "greener" pastures.. 

    I couldn't NOT have "" words, sorry.. It's late.  ;)
  • Aeroplane
    Aeroplane Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
    Brakkis said:
    Aeroplane said:
    Origins will always stay in Standard as it was stated. HoD will be probably dropped. People who take a hiatus from the game and come back would not want to start from scratch with origins gone ,especially, if your in Platinum.

    That is what we are all assuming. Let's stop assuming and get a solid answer.
    https://d3publisherofamerica.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005652643-Booster-Crafting-Details-12-1-17-?mobile_site=true  Ummmm.... yeah...assuming? If it leaves they'd lose their fringe player base and their would be no point in boostercrafting origins.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Aeroplane said:
    Brakkis said:
    Aeroplane said:
    Origins will always stay in Standard as it was stated. HoD will be probably dropped. People who take a hiatus from the game and come back would not want to start from scratch with origins gone ,especially, if your in Platinum.

    That is what we are all assuming. Let's stop assuming and get a solid answer.
    https://d3publisherofamerica.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005652643-Booster-Crafting-Details-12-1-17-?mobile_site=true  Ummmm.... yeah...assuming? If it leaves they'd lose their fringe player base and their would be no point in boostercrafting origins.
    Nicely linked @Aeroplane this has been common knowledge for some time about Origins remaining statically standard.

    It was not until recently players began the rumor mill in here about Origins being pushed out possibly by M19. That, I repeat, this assumption about Origins being replaced by M19 was based on a playerbase created rumor... not one that D3 or Oktagon ever broached as a subject. 
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Origins is the base set of the game — and it’s heavily pushed in the lower tier’s reward structure. Replacing it would alienate half of the player base, which is obviously not good for business.


  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gunmix25 said:
    Aeroplane said:
    Brakkis said:
    Aeroplane said:
    Origins will always stay in Standard as it was stated. HoD will be probably dropped. People who take a hiatus from the game and come back would not want to start from scratch with origins gone ,especially, if your in Platinum.

    That is what we are all assuming. Let's stop assuming and get a solid answer.
    https://d3publisherofamerica.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005652643-Booster-Crafting-Details-12-1-17-?mobile_site=true  Ummmm.... yeah...assuming? If it leaves they'd lose their fringe player base and their would be no point in boostercrafting origins.
    Nicely linked @Aeroplane this has been common knowledge for some time about Origins remaining statically standard.

    It was not until recently players began the rumor mill in here about Origins being pushed out possibly by M19. That, I repeat, this assumption about Origins being replaced by M19 was based on a playerbase created rumor... not one that D3 or Oktagon ever broached as a subject. 

    But on the other hand they never calmed those voices, instead (if they answered), we were told that they can't answer this question "right now", making the assumption that it could replace origins a very likely option in the player perception. Just for context, I'm also in the group that never believed origins would be replaced.. But I am still not sure.


    -

    Honored Hydra gets embalm 4? That's hell of a buff!

    -

    Sooo many new walkers.. That adds up to.. 700-800.000 runes and a lot of gold :/
  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
    So no word about rotation as usual until we are to face the inevitable without any opportunity for planning our investments. 
    @Brigby is there any standard rotation happening with m19 being released? 
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Just FYI :on Facebook page there is a visual spoiler of M19 for mtgpq
  • timthes
    timthes Posts: 60 Match Maker
    Szamsziel said:
    Just FYI :on Facebook page there is a visual spoiler of M19 for mtgpq
    On which facebook page might that be? thanks in advance
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Official magic: puzzle quest.
    Link to pictures: https://www.facebook.com/595153053933248/posts/1459566300825248/
  • timthes
    timthes Posts: 60 Match Maker
    But a very nice update, I was assuming M'19 would be incorporated in Origins, as an update to the set, but 212 cards... as I in a quick scan I count about 25-30 cards we already have, and 25 lands we already have, so out of 280 total cards - 50 is 230, and we get 212.... that's massive , great job
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    gogol666 said:
    By the way, there is no info about sets rotated into legacy and the future of origins. Can you tell us something more?
    There actually (kind of) is some info there. 

    It says,  "Cycling cards have been a dominant yet uninteractive strategy for a while now and, and as the strategy transitions into Legacy, we wanted to ensure that it doesn’t continue that way."

    I assume that means HOU is rotating out with Core
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    jimpark said:
    The general changes looks great - well done. New card set looks exciting (though I will admit there is some worry with potential for new bugs).

    Mechanics.
    I am glad they are introducing flash as it adds another layer of depth to the game. However, I urge you and hope that flash cards all come with a confirmation on cast prompt, especially during the opponents turn. (I don't know if this is already a thing or not).

    Stored mana.
    I don't understand this just yet and would need to experience it firsthand; but, I would hope that these come with a confirmation prompt as well. It says "opportunity" which may signal a choice; but, it also says "regardless of autocast" which implies no conformation prompt and worries me.

    Cycling:
    The cycling changes do look reasonable and acceptable. I want to argue that the cycling strategy is a great way for newer players to have an affordable means (but now that its legacy not the case) to achieve rankings and such but instead I would like to push for more availability of legacy powerhouse cards, nerfing of legacy powerhouse cards, or buffing of low power legacy commons, uncommons, and rares. Honestly its just a request for card balances.

    General Balance Changes.
    Honored Hydra. a huge buff. I think embalm 3 would have been reasonable.

    Naru Meha. worried the flash may cause unexpected bugs.

    Squee. 16 isn't the worst; but when looking at simply red standard cards, his cost could probably go down lower. I think 13-14 would have been a sweet spot. Squees weakness is mainly exile/return to hand/steal/trampler/flying effects. He doesn't have flying or any defensive/offensive skills to make him a super attacker/blocker; however, with the presence of cards that can enable this, he should probably not cost less than 13-14. This way at lower tiers, achieving a super attacker/blocker 2-3 card combo is less likely to dominate. Also within this bracket there are lots of similarly costed cards like Dire Fleet Daredevil; Captivating Crew; Tiana, Ship's Caretaker, Goblin Chainwhirler, Tilonalli's Skinshifter; etc (though most of these cards add more value than Squee). Since his ability is really not a standalone kind of thing, he would be more of a mediocre/bad card in this bracket, making him usable but not dominating.

    Mox Amber. Feels like it got a little too strong; but I haven't used it enough to say for certain. A cost 10 or above but not more than 12 would probably have been reasonable. 

    Consecrated by Blood. I feel like this could have gone cheaper in the 10 mana range. With the existence of the 12 mana "On Serra's Wings", this seems reasonable. But when only looking at black; black does not have very many effects that permanently buff other creatures so at the same time its an understandable cost to be at 12 mana, aside from the fact that a card like demonic vigor exists. "Demonic Vigor" gives a buff and saves your creature once; as opposed to a regenerate effect that upon creature death, the creature loses and cannot retain when resurrected.

    Swashbuckling. One with the Wind. Chitinous Cloak. So first, Chitinous cloak is 5 mana to cast so nothing changes. Second, why is swashbuckling and one with the wind getting nerfed? Shouldn't they be getting buffed? Looking at cards like Chitinous Cloak, Honed Khopesh, Murderer's Axe, permanently giving +2/+2 is valued at 5 mana in all colors (since they are colorless cards). But in white you have Aerial Modification that gives flying in addition for 4 mana. Flying is much more relevant than haste but Swashbuckling will be moved to 8 mana? Now for abilities like vilgilance/defender or berserker, I can understand to some degree, as they are more valuable abilities. For instance adding vilgilance to a beefy first striker will always be more valuable than haste. Haste is a one time effect that only works if you cast both the non-hasted creature and the haste giving effect on the same turn. After that turn, its value diminishes so badly that its unplayable. Therefore, swashbuckling should be valued at 4 mana tops with the possibility of moving it to 3 mana (depending on what other cards red has in its arsenal in that bracket); while, One with the wind should probably be valued at 4 mana. Then temporary spells effects like "mighty leap" or "wild instincts" should probably be less than 4 mana, especially when cards like "act of heroism" or "shed weakness exist". Lithomancers focus should be 0-1 mana since its until the end of my turn.

    Ritual of Rejuvenation. Sooooo.. were there a lot of complaints about this card in lower tiers? I don't understand why this already bad card got just got super duper worse? There is "Healing Hands" which gains 5 life and draws a card but costs 6. The exact same effect but gains 1 less life for 1 less mana... well now 2 less mana. There is "Invoke the Divine" which destroys a support and gains you 4 life at 8 mana, which is far more valuable in the current meta. There is "Gideon's defeat", which exiles a creature and gains you 5 life for 9 mana. Ritual of rejuvenation does not dramatically affect the board like "Gideons Defeat" or "Invoke the Divine" does and isn't as cheap as "Healing Hands" is. This card is a combo enabler that cantrips (draws you a card); it is relatively useless alone and for its cost is horrendous, considering the other options available. In fact, Both "Healing Hands" and "Invoke the Divine" should have their costs severely reduced. The amount of life gained should be minimum twice the mana cost. A well designed card was "renewed faith," which granted 10 life for 6 mana but could be cycled for a better card and still gain 5 life, i.e. 1 mana for a gain 5 life and draw a card effect. In fact, when looking at lifegain spells, if renewed faith stays the same, Chaplain's blessing should be 1 mana for 6-7 life or 3 mana for 8-9 life. Healing hands should be 6 mana for 10 life and draw a card. And Ritual of rejuvenation should be 8 mana for 14 life and draw a card. Gaining life should be cheap, especially low amounts of life; but, gaining large chunks of life should be more costly as they have more value and can allow you to survive more turns than low amounts of life. If there is another ability tacked on, depending upon the value of that ability the cost should be adjusted accordingly.

    When balancing cards.
    1. look at cards within the same cost range
    2. look at cards within the same ability range
    3. look within the card's colors for comparable cards
    4. look in other colors for comparable cards.
    5. look at what value/drawback the card itself is offering
    6. look at the current meta of the standard format
    7. look at the legacy meta
    8. look for card-card interactions that may lead to abuse
    9. generate your newly balanced card.
    10. repeat steps 1-10 as the meta changes and re-balance as necessary.

    I applaud your efforts and I believe you guys are doing a great job - I really do appreciate it. I hope this comment can provide some help for you guys.
    Nice post. Kudos!

    That said... after looking over the new cards... Squee got a decent boost in terms of his ability fueling other cards that require a cost of a reinforcement. And there are a fair number. Something tells me Oktagon knew this was coming and planned accordingly but because they can't reveal plans to early... we kind of are left wondering what in the heck? Squee is starting to make more sense now
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Hopefully the official gallery goes up soon, considering the facebook post shows them.

    Otherwise, I don't know why D3 seem to be trolling Octal ever since the feature about his resource!   ;)
  • Mark_Tedin
    Mark_Tedin Posts: 167 Tile Toppler
    Ok, let's go ... First of all, I congratulate you for listening to the forum participants a lot. It have many good things like Land Support Changes (mainly Zhalfirin Void), General Changes (Naru, Traxos, Haphazardous Bombardment), Training Grounds - Standard PVP, Shield Number, bug fixes...BUT....

    I sincerely disagree with the SUPER NERF's Cycling cards and other legacy cards (Shire of the Forsaken Gods). Please, do not nerf our legacy. This is one of the most fun parts of the game. Thanks! :) 

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