New Feature - Saved Covers *Updated (6/19/18)

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  • Jexman
    Jexman Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
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    This seems better to me, if not as good as 1-1 for LL, but at least now I can use 3:1 on CL. I may go back to CL now that my 3 star roster is more than half turned over to 166+ instead of close to 266, so that the cp flow is way down again and I don’t really have a chance anymore to fully cover a LL. (I will never hoard, will quit game if hoarding is best option, what a boring outcome for a MATCH 3 lol)
  • alaeth
    alaeth Posts: 446 Mover and Shaker
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    With the recent backlash to the news of the Saving feature, I feel there's a missed opportunity.

    It's awesome to see the adjustment from the original post, changing the 5* ratio, and formally re-introducing compensation for 550 rosters, but a lot of the back-lash could have been prevented if the player-base was consulted.

    Working in software development myself, I am keenly aware of the breadth of stakeholders... you have finance, Marvel itself, and a whole raft of others, but I feel you've missed consultation of the player-base on new features (especially those that have 500+ 5* characters... those people that REALLY have put some serious money into the game).

    IF a small group of people could sign NDAs, and see a pre-release copy of new proposed changes, they could help steer the wording, and perhaps adjust the decisions to make them more palatable and friendly and even save development time as you don't need to then back-pedal and adjust things after the public feedback cycle).  The group should be kept very small, but contain at least a couple people with very mature rosters (500+ 5*).

    just my 2 ISO
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
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    broll said:
    Wow.  So you had to gut the new system on day 3?  Everyone who fought for this and are happy about it, think about why this changed so quickly, when so many other changes took weeks, months, years.  Because this is in the developers favor.  Oh the players want a worse deal?  Sure give it to the right away so we can keep 5* rate down while also looking like heroes.  I'm so beyond angry right now...  Worst change to a new system since Wins based PvP got gutted after a single season.
    Usually I give the dev's the benefit of the doubt and stay away from the tin foil hat.

    I can not agree with this more. I wish I could like it more than once.

  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
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    I think the 5:1 swap is too high a price, and 3:1 is much better. I can see why people don't want to lose the 5 slot bank, but that mainly implies they would not use the swap feature anyway and only try to cover the 5* normally and turn the saved covers all into champ levels.
    Best of both worlds, I really like the idea of having a 5 slot bank and 3 conversion rate. Having that extra slot would let someone see up to 6 covers in their queue. It would let them better assess whether or not the swap is worth it.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
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    Man I thought the 3:1 trade was going to be with the 5 bank...

    it literally never crossed my mind that they would reduce the bank to 3


    :neutral:
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,490 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm going to reserve judgment, myself, until I see more, but I'll say this - it's nice to see them being so responsive.  Kudos for that.
  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    Hadronic said:
    Clearly they did not look at my plot.
    3 is the worst possible value they could have chosen




    Somebody please correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but it looks like the difference between 3 vs 5 is 0.05 wasted covers per character. 

    So 1 out of every 20 5* characters covered will have one wasted cover vs the 5:1 system. 

    Are the "no waste" purists really this upset about 0.05 covers per character?  Is that not worth the tradeoff for those who don't care about waste and just want to get those missing covers filled?


  • sirwookieechris
    sirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
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    udonomefoo said:
    Hadronic said:
    Clearly they did not look at my plot.
    3 is the worst possible value they could have chosen




    Somebody please correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but it looks like the difference between 3 vs 5 is 0.05 wasted covers per character. 

    So 1 out of every 20 5* characters covered will have one wasted cover vs the 5:1 system. 

    Are the "no waste" purists really this upset about 0.05 covers per character?  Is that not worth the tradeoff for those who don't care about waste and just want to get those missing covers filled?



    Hadronic himself gave a tldr earlier of "We traded 12.5% no waste potential to save 6 LT pulls on average"
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm happy with the feature. It's nice to get a new cover for every three 5* covers. My formerly 15 blue SS would have been happy (he eventually got championed after selling a bunch of unused blues).
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    Please keep in mind that this tends to work with large number. Individually, it's going to deviate a lot. Think flipping a coin. It's either head or tail (0.5/0.5). Does that mean that it will always be 5 heads and 5 tails for every 10 flips? No, it doesn't. But, if you flip a coin enough time, 10,000 or even 100,000 times, it's going to get closer to 0.5/.05. If you want something closer to home, look for those threads that invite players to share their hoard results. Some players get above 15% 5* pull rate and others get lower.

    Use this as an informative guide, but not as a bible.
  • moss04
    moss04 Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
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    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    Wow.  So you had to gut the new system on day 3?  Everyone who fought for this and are happy about it, think about why this changed so quickly, when so many other changes took weeks, months, years.  Because this is in the developers favor.  Oh the players want a worse deal?  Sure give it to the right away so we can keep 5* rate down while also looking like heroes.  I'm so beyond angry right now...  Worst change to a new system since Wins based PvP got gutted after a single season.
    Usually I give the dev's the benefit of the doubt and stay away from the tin foil hat.

    I can not agree with this more. I wish I could like it more than once.

    Several of us on Discord has a decent discussion with a few of them last night.  They insist that they are trying to get better and quicker at responding to player feedback and based on how candid they were I'm backing off and giving them the benfit of the doubt.

    Also one of them asked for some of @Hadronic predictive models to bring to a meeting tomorrow.  I'm pushing for them to consider keeping the 3:1 trade, but also keeping the bank 5 so we have the best of both worlds.  We'll see if they tweak it again to that or any other tweaks.  We can only hope.
    I am beyond ecstatic to hear this (bolded info).  I am hopeful that this means they actually did intend to give us a positive compromise rather than a bad trade-off (tiny bit better pull to cover rate for decent increase to cover waste).  If a compromise is what they are actually going for either a 3:1 exchange with a 5 bank, or just 2:1 exchange with 2 bank would both be better than the current lateral-to-bad update.
  • bowla33
    bowla33 Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
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    Got to used my saved cover today for a 5. Only useable because of CS swap though. 
  • gmtosca
    gmtosca Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
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    Smart80 said:

    FTR, I’d take 5 saved covers over 3:1 any day, cause i rather take a little longer to finish than waste covers by swapping worse than 1:1...

    Yeah, this is me too.
  • Tensuun
    Tensuun Posts: 98 Match Maker
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    I hate trying to hoard tokens, in general; it feels like my progression is stalled indefinitely (because, well, it is), and I'm missing opportunities to use characters or powers that I could otherwise have access to (for Crash o' th' Titans, for Essentials and Powered-Up characters, etc.)

    At this point, I have 34 characters champed, including Devil Dino but not Howard the Duck. With the recent change to 4* cover odds, any particular 4* cover (character + cover) has a 1:195 chance of being pulled (will be 1:201 once Peter and Billy enter the pool), assuming that I am pulling a 4* character (I have no 5* characters at 13/13, so with the Saving mechanic in place there is zero risk of getting a 5* cover I can't use).

    Venom (Eddie Brock) and Luke Cage (Power Man) are at 13/13 but not champed; basically whichever one I pull another cover of first will get an ISO dump, and then I'll start hoarding tokens until I champ the character and use the 14th cover.

    Of the remaining four-star characters, the following have at least one rank-5 power but are not yet ready to champ:

    5/3/2 Iceman
    3/5/3 Gwenpool
    5/4/3 Professor X
    4/2/5 Cyclops
    3/4/5 Spider-Gwen
    5/4/3 Peggy Carter
    5/1/4 Red Hulk
    3/4/5 The Thing
    3/5/3 Kate Bishop
    2/4/5 Wolverine
    3/4/5 Jean Grey
    4/2/5 War Machine
    5/4/3 Carnage
    5/3/2 Mordo
    5/2/2 Winter Soldier
    3/5/4 Deadpool
    5/2/5 Mr. Fantastic
    5/3/3 Elektra
    5/1/5 America Chavez
    3/2/5 Moon Knight
    4/3/5 The Hulk (Main Event)
    1/5/3 Kraven the Hunter

    Under the old system, I had a 12.3% chance for any given LL pull to get me 1000 Iso-8, and a ~0.26% chance for any given LL pull to make it possible for me to champ Mr. Fantastic. It was starting to look like I'd have to hoard tokens until I got another fifteen 3* Black Panther covers, and I was anticipating major disappointment for the next time America or Mr. F became an "Essential".

    Under the new system, I am excited for every single progression reward, regardless of who the Essential characters are, and my 12-cover characters don't somehow feel like they're further away from getting champed than my 9-cover characters.


  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
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    thedarkphoenix said:
    Man I thought the 3:1 trade was going to be with the 5 bank...

    it literally never crossed my mind that they would reduce the bank to 3

    I modeled it the way I did cause I just had a gut feeling they were coupled together. I still need to decouple them in my simulation.
  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
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    broll said:
    Wow.  So you had to gut the new system on day 3?  Everyone who fought for this and are happy about it, think about why this changed so quickly, when so many other changes took weeks, months, years.  Because this is in the developers favor.  Oh the players want a worse deal?  Sure give it to the right away so we can keep 5* rate down while also looking like heroes.  I'm so beyond angry right now...  Worst change to a new system since Wins based PvP got gutted after a single season.
    This. So much this. I was going to post similiar, but much less polite. I don't have to now.

    Thanks @broll for keeping from posting something that probably would have gotten me flagged and a warning.

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