New Feature - Saved Covers *Updated (6/19/18)

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  • adamdivine
    adamdivine Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
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    It's just impossible for them to do anything correctly
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    The original purpose of Saved Covers is to reduce cover wastage by allowing you to convert unusable covers to an upgradable power. It was never meant for players to hoard extra covers. So, I doubt they would allow you to capped conversion at 3 but cap maximum saved coverss at 5. 

    Some players are happy; some aren't. It's normal.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,913 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    HoundofShadow said:
    The original purpose of Saved Covers is to reduce cover wastage
    So they change the exchange rate/bank size to something that increases cover wastage?

    (after 3 days)
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    The original purpose of Saved Covers is to reduce cover wastage
    So they change the exchange rate/bank size to something that increases cover wastage?

    (after 3 days)
    The purpose was to make the players happy by reducing cover waste.  If they believe we are OK with worse cover waste then that's a good deal for them.  They reprioritized work to change this, which means they had to have seen high ROI for some reason or they wouldn't have put other work on hold to make this change so fast.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    Let's go back to basic:

    Saved Covers Targeted Segment: players with imperfect covers distribution with less than 13/13 covers like 17/5/1, 9/7/2, 10/1/0

    Problem before Saved Covers were introduced:
    Players were getting 8/5/1, 19/3/5. They have to sell their covers for up to 2000 iso-8 or get lucky.

    After Saved Covers were introduced:
    1) You can save 5 covers to convert them into a different power  -- Intended purpose
    2) you can wait it out and hope you can convert them into champion level -- this is a bonus side effect
    3) This feature was never meant for players to hoard extra covers so that they can convert them into champion level

    The plot or was it another plot, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, involves factoring 1:1 swap into account, which was meant to be something not designed to be part of the game feature, but was a goodwill gesture.

    Getting focus group is a good idea. Some potential problems they face are:
    1) how can they ensure that those players don't leak out something that was never meant to be made public
    2) how can those players be trusted with keeping that experiment confidential?


  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Hadronic, can you do one without Saved Covers and without 1:1 swapping service?
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Since massive hoard is the only way to go, can we get an open all button?  Working on 1500 standard tokens and this will just suck soon. Lol 
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Only 2 ways to make everyone happy:
    1:1 player-controlled cover swapping
    Reduced ratio along with an increased bank and the ability to choose when to spend covers.

    Personally, fine with the ratio improved to 3:1. But I’d certainly be happy if the saved covers could just keep banking rather than forcing conversion. The code for the maximum is probably a hex number or something, so it shouldn’t even change file size to let it be the maximum number rather than an imposed limit. (No, I don’t know how to program. Why do you ask?)
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
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    awarnica said:
    Just going to throw this out here - you guys worked hard on this idea. Weeks maybe months of design. Then - minutes after you posted, people pointed out potential issues. Then you changed course within days. 
    This happenned with the save feature and the cover swap removal for 550’s. 
    Maybe - you should have a small subsection of players - not a survey but a group of 10 2*/3*/4*/5* players and poll them in advance. Not a survey but a real conversation. You may find out that there are smart players who put in way too much time analyzing the changes, and find some opinions before the release! Maybe even do some tweaks prior to the announcements!
    This is not a unique idea, focus groups are used in a number of other places. 
    I recommended this in the Q&A thread as well.  I vote that @Hadronic be added to the panel!

    Seriously though a lot of recent missteps could have been avoided just by pulsing some of the vets that are in tune with the current meta.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
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    Hadronic said:
    Starting at 0/0/0 and using Bonus Heroes
    5:1 Exchange

    Pulls needed to finish Character:
    261.580 +/- 76.410
    Expected number of wasted covers:
    0.498 +/- 1.394
    Expected number of bonus covers:
    1.978 +/- 1.289
    Expected number of exchanges:
    0.124 +/- 0.348
    Probability of no waste:
    88.170%


    Starting at 0/0/0 and using Bonus Heroes
    3:1 Exchange

    Pulls needed to finish Character:
    255.819 +/- 72.474
    Expected number of wasted covers:
    0.558 +/- 1.044
    Expected number of bonus covers:
    1.914 +/- 1.241
    Expected number of exchanges:
    0.279 +/- 0.522
    Probability of no waste:
    75.500%

    We traded 12.5% no waste potential to save 6 LT pulls on average
    Does your math assume you exchange any time you get 3 saved covers?  If you have a 5/4/3 character with 3 saved covers, you’re probably better off holding onto them and waiting for the next pull. 

    No matter what they do some people will complain.  It will work perfectly for some people and horribly for others.  

    I’ve heard a few people say they had a character at 10/9/0 or something like that.  With 3 cover exchanges you could exchange 3 times and have them champed.  With 5 cover exchanges you’d have a 5/5/1 character with 4 saved covers, still at least 2 more covers from champing them.  

    Personally I’m fine with 3 or 5 cover exchanges.  Either way is a lot better than 2000 ISO.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2018
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    Pants1000 said:

    Does your math assume you exchange any time you get 3 saved covers?  If you have a 5/4/3 character with 3 saved covers, you’re probably better off holding onto them and waiting for the next pull. 

    No matter what they do some people will complain.  It will work perfectly for some people and horribly for others.  

    I’ve heard a few people say they had a character at 10/9/0 or something like that.  With 3 cover exchanges you could exchange 3 times and have them champed.  With 5 cover exchanges you’d have a 5/5/1 character with 4 saved covers, still at least 2 more covers from champing them.  

    Personally I’m fine with 3 or 5 cover exchanges.  Either way is a lot better than 2000 ISO.
    My simulation attempts to minimize wasted covers. So it only does an exchange when you try to put the (max+1) cover into storage. It always exchanges for whichever power has the least amount of covers.
    The exception is when the exchange rate is 1:1, since there is no waste, it does the exchange immediately.

    my simulation does not account for 2 week timers though, so you could interpret waste as "covers on the vine" if it makes you feel better.
  • talleman
    talleman Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
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    So its only 3:1 for the 5*s and 5:1 for the rest?
  • BearVenger
    BearVenger Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
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    I appreciate the change for 5* characters' Saved Covers. I accepted it for 5 covers, but the reduction to 3* encourages me to pull Classics for the older 5*s I had written off for good..

    Really, I like this as an improvement to manual cover swaps or burning covers for ISO. I get this vibe that some posters have to one-up the previous poster with negative hyperbole, but I would rather there be some slowdown to building up characters.
  • Dotproduct
    Dotproduct Posts: 217 Tile Toppler
    edited June 2018
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    I just saved three more 4* covers I would have lost, so I'm still cruising no matter the change.
  • marshall
    marshall Posts: 179 Tile Toppler
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    I think the feature is very, very good!  Also 3:1 exchange rate is significantly more fair. And I get it that a subset of players will complain no matter what (e.g.it's no colourless!, why not 1:1?).

    It seems like the intention was to make players happy, understanding the higher value of a 5* cover. It does increase cover waste however by a decent amount.

    If it is something easy to fix, that's great, if not, I'd rather get character rebalances and new features with that development time.

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